America is Becoming Less Religious

[sun rise]

It pays to the original source as the followup chart illustrates. The full Pew study had a number of interesting detailed observations. Another look at the 2010 survey shows how truly ignorant most are about what their religion teaches let alone other religions An Overview of the Pew Forum Survey, Results and Implications | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project It's one thing and not very good in this era to be ignorant of the tenants of other religions but the level of ignorance about one's own religion? A chunk of that ignorance is related to educational level and it's interesting to note that Jews and atheists do better on the religion knowledge test. But this is just plain sad:

 

[Skwim]

Yes, it shows a trend over time, but I make 2 observations:

1) a rise from about 6.5% to a little less than 18% over 40 years is hardly anything to get excited about. 18% isn't a whole lot. That trend could swing back over the next 50 years. I say that because of my next point.

Who's getting excited? And FWIW, going from 5% in 1972 to 17% in 38 years amounts to a 240% increase. The trend is decidedly upward, not downward. Do with it what you will. Mox nix here.

2) The graph shows people with "no religious affiliation." That could mean anything. It doesn't necessarily mean that those with "no religious affiliation" are irreligious, agnostic, atheist, or secular. It simply means that they do not affiliate. The growing trend among Millenials is that they tend to be highly spiritual, but are not "joiners," so do not call themselves any particular thing (such as "Christian"). Therefore, the graph could simply be reflecting that trend.

Just to be clear, the only reason I posted the graph was to show the difference between a graph that showed no trend over time to one that does, and it was handy. For all intents and purposes it could have been a graph of waffle consumption in Peoria, Illinois over 38 years.

____________________________________

which amounts to

​

Pretty damn poor if you ask me. . . . . . . and even if you don't ask me.

 

[idav]

It pays to the original source as the followup chart illustrates. The full Pew study had a number of interesting detailed observations. Another look at the 2010 survey shows how truly ignorant most are about what their religion teaches let alone other religions An Overview of the Pew Forum Survey, Results and Implications | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project It's one thing and not very good in this era to be ignorant of the tenants of other religions but the level of ignorance about one's own religion? A chunk of that ignorance is related to educational level and it's interesting to note that Jews and atheists do better on the religion knowledge test. But this is just plain sad:

How could they not know that?

Oh but all these people found the right religion.

 

[Desert Snake]

What does 'secular' mean?
According to that poll.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who's getting excited? And FWIW, going from 5% in 1972 to 17% in 38 years amounts to a 240% increase. The trend is decidedly upward, not downward. Do with it what you will. Mox nix here.

Just to be clear, the only reason I posted the graph was to show the difference between a graph that showed no trend over time to one that does, and it was handy. For all intents and purposes it could have been a graph of waffle consumption in Peoria, Illinois over 38 years.
.

The chart in the OP does a show a trend, and that trend is that the younger the age group, the less likely they are to be religious. A particular study in my statistics text book reached the same conclusion, but by asking how often someone prays and sorting responders out by age group.
As for going from 5% to 17%, it's a gradual increase but it's a trend that could very easily reverse. It's still less than 20% of the population, and it doesn't include the various things that "no religious affiliation" can mean, so it's very likely if you broke this down further to include only those who have no religious or spiritual believes or views the percent would likely be lower than 17%.

 

[sun rise]

What does 'secular' mean?
According to that poll.

I don't see the word "secular" defined. "unaffiliated' is defined. Also there's an interesting discussion in the full report about belief in God versus affiliated with a religion. And there's a nuance in the findings:

Similarly, young adults are less convinced of God’s existence than their elders are today; 64% of young adults say they are absolutely certain of God’s existence, compared with 73% of those ages 30 and older. In this case, differences are most pronounced among Catholics, with younger Catholics being 10 points less likely than older Catholics to believe in God with absolute certainty. In other religious traditions, age differences are smaller.

But GSS data show that Millennials’ level of belief in God resembles that seen among Gen Xers when they were roughly the same age. Just over half of Millennials in the 2008 GSS survey (53%) say they have no doubt that God exists, a figure that is very similar to that among Gen Xers in the late 1990s (55%). Levels of certainty of belief in God have increased somewhat among Gen Xers and Baby Boomers in recent decades.

 

[Harikrish]

All the religious wars America has waged against communism, homosexuals, Islam have not turned out too well. It makes sense for America to rely less on religion and more on common sense.

 

[gsa]

But people can espouse those beliefs and still be Christian -- in most camps. We have to remember that Xy isn't a neat and tidy, easily-identifiable box; it's all over the place -- and always has been. In fact, I'd say that some of the "other religions/beliefs" bloc could be identified as Xtian, if we asked them whether they believe in Jesus, but still have some "non-standard" beliefs.

While I agree that the actual practice of Christianity is all over the place, we cannot talk about Christianity at all if it encompasses everything and is indistinguishable from other religions. And when people espouse the Christian religion, there are certain beliefs and practices that are assumed, however fairly or unfairly.

My point in noting the heterodox (or heretical if you prefer) beliefs on the part of large minorities of American Christians is to emphasize how the self-labeling is very nuanced. And in many cases, also inconsistent with the teachings of a denomination: The Catholic Church, for example, quite clearly rejects reincarnation:

Death is the end of man's earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When "the single course of our earthly life" is completed,http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2I.HTM#$1BBwe shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once."http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2I.HTM#$1BCThere is no "reincarnation" after death.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2I.HTM#$1BC

Notwithstanding this rejection, a large percentage of Catholics believe in reincarnation. Now, I know that US Catholics also reject a number of church teachings on a variety of issues, and my point is not to say that they are not Catholic. My point is that religious labeling, self-labeling or otherwise, does not necessarily tell us much about actual belief or practice.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

All the religious wars America has waged against communism, homosexuals, Islam have not turned out too well. It makes sense for America to rely less on religion and more on common sense.

That may play a part in it. For the almost 30 years of my life (and of course even before that)American culture and politics have launched religious-based wars of morality against Communist, Russians, homosexuals, immigrants, Muslims, Middle Easterners, and even Allah even though he is the same god these Christians worship.

 

[sun rise]

..

Notwithstanding this rejection, a large percentage of Catholics believe in reincarnation. Now, I know that US Catholics also reject a number of church teachings on a variety of issues, and my point is not to say that they are not Catholic. My point is that religious labeling, self-labeling or otherwise, does not necessarily tell us much about actual belief or practice.

I've argued that same point about Islam.

 

[outhouse]

Interesting article:
America is Becoming Less Religious

It is.

It follows exactly what I have learned in the last 4 years here.



Education and knowledge can lead to an open mind. One that is open enough to not use bias in the study of history.

At that point people can clearly see the trail of mythology and how beliefs were formed.

Cultural and social anthropology opens up much more then any person can learn in a lifetime at church only following apologetic bias.


Young people study more then old people, thus young people are more apt to learn and keep an open mind.


Old people set in their ways are not apt to change. And this world we live in is in a very sharp growth curve of the evolution of knowledge and education.

 

[Skwim]

The chart in the OP does a show a trend, and that trend is that the younger the age group, the less likely they are to be religious. A particular study in my statistics text book reached the same conclusion, but by asking how often someone prays and sorting responders out by age group.

If you note, I said "It shows no trend over time."

As for going from 5% to 17%, it's a gradual increase but it's a trend that could very easily reverse.

As can just about any trend. So what's your point, that this trend is like any other? This is old news, S. W.

It's still less than 20% of the population, and it doesn't include the various things that "no religious affiliation" can mean, so it's very likely if you broke this down further to include only those who have no religious or spiritual believes or views the percent would likely be lower than 17%.

Yeah, there's all kinds of maybes, what ifs, and likelys, one can throw out there, but none are in the least interesting.

 

[mystic64]

Religion Among the Millennials | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

Well, the above article is an interesting kicker . The millennials are the future and as they go so goes the Community of Humankind. American millennials and predicting future religious trends? Humm?

Basically all future trends that are religious and political are created by educated intellectuals. Normal folks are basically locked in set pattern and resist change. So if it wasn't for the educated intellectuals there wouldn't be any change. Generally speaking. And educated intellectuals are basically the by product of what they are being taught in the institutions of higher learning. I am an educated intellectual and based on my experience with the university educational environment, back in the seventies, that which is taught is non religion. So as we get more educated people the trend is going to be toward non religion. And the segment of the American population (and the world) that is non religious is going to increase. And added to this is the growing power of the internet as a tool for influencing the minds of others along with educated intellectuals significantly at play in this internet environment .

So unless God Him/Her self actually shows up and kicks a few tushes religion in general is going to become a curiosity as an abnormal mind reality. It is predictable and it is inevitable especially if higher education becomes the norm. Which we all hope that it does.

You are right Rex this website is way faster!

 

[gsa]

I've argued that same point about Islam.

Certainly so! There is a very interesting world survey that demonstrates a similar kind of nuance. The executive summary overstates unity of belief and practice in my opinion; it is one thing for the vast majority of Muslims to affirm the Quran as the word of God, while showing that a substantial number of Muslims who affirm that belief also deny the existence of djinn. Another report on Muslim Americans from 2011 shows that a substantial minority believe that homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%), while 11% don't know, 45% said it should be discouraged and 5% said neither.

As I've said elsewhere here, religion is not just a set of doctrines, nor is it defined solely by institutional decree. It is a complex, living array of beliefs, practices, symbols, myths, experience, etcetera. Unsurprisingly, that is exactly what the surveys reveal when you delve into them.

 

[sojourner]

Who's getting excited? And FWIW, going from 5% in 1972 to 17% in 38 years amounts to a 240% increase. The trend is decidedly upward, not downward. Do with it what you will. Mox nix here.

The OP seems to be getting excited. Personally, I think the news is a major snore. I didn't mean to disparage your post -- in fact, thank you for posting it; it does exactly what you say it does.

My issue is that trends usually go in cycles. A 38 year trend may reverse. Also, your graph, while showing a trend in unaffiliated Xtians, does not indicate a trend in those who remain spiritual, or religious, but who do not affiliate. We've been so indoctrinated that church membership is what indicates "being religious," that we forget it's possible to be religious without affiliating. In fact, my church doesn't even have members. Those who come, come.

Again, I wasn't dismissing your post, but using it as a jumping-off point for the issues I wanted to raise. Thanks again for posting it.

 

[sojourner]

The chart in the OP does a show a trend, and that trend is that the younger the age group, the less likely they are to be religious. A particular study in my statistics text book reached the same conclusion, but by asking how often someone prays and sorting responders out by age group.
As for going from 5% to 17%, it's a gradual increase but it's a trend that could very easily reverse. It's still less than 20% of the population, and it doesn't include the various things that "no religious affiliation" can mean, so it's very likely if you broke this down further to include only those who have no religious or spiritual believes or views the percent would likely be lower than 17%.

No it doesn't. It shows that they are less likely to be affiliated. The numbers of agnostics/atheists isn't all that different, the way I see it.

The big problem here is in defining what "being religious" means. Does it specifically mean "affiliated?" Because if it does, it's meaningless. Lots of people are religious without being affiliated.

The rest of your post I agree with.

 

[sojourner]

While I agree that the actual practice of Christianity is all over the place, we cannot talk about Christianity at all if it encompasses everything and is indistinguishable from other religions. And when people espouse the Christian religion, there are certain beliefs and practices that are assumed, however fairly or unfairly.

My point in noting the heterodox (or heretical if you prefer) beliefs on the part of large minorities of American Christians is to emphasize how the self-labeling is very nuanced. And in many cases, also inconsistent with the teachings of a denomination: The Catholic Church, for example, quite clearly rejects reincarnation

The distinguishing feature of Xy is clearly it's espousal of Jesus. Even Catholics recognize that not all members will agree with all teachings. Catholic doctrine does not recognize reincarnation. Unity does. Both are Christian. Both espouse Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, there's all kinds of maybes, what ifs, and likelys, one can throw out there, but none are in the least interesting.

I find the whole argument that "America is becoming less religious" a snore. It's MUCH more interesting to me the ways in which American people remain spiritual while choosing to not affiliate traditionally; they seem to be finding new expressions and new ways of forming spiritual community. The mainline Xtian church as it has traditionally existed is dying -- no doubt about that. Also no doubt that other religious expressions are coming more to the front. But there remains a highly-charged spiritual awareness among Americans that, while changing in terms of how it looks and how it responds to awareness and cultural norms, does not seem to be diminishing.

 

[sojourner]

Religion Among the Millennials | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

Well, the above article is an interesting kicker . The millennials are the future and as they go so goes the Community of Humankind. American millennials and predicting future religious trends? Humm?

Basically all future trends that are religious and political are created by educated intellectuals. Normal folks are basically locked in set pattern and resist change. So if it wasn't for the educated intellectuals there wouldn't be any change. Generally speaking. And educated intellectuals are basically the by product of what they are being taught in the institutions of higher learning. I am an educated intellectual and based on my experience with the university educational environment, back in the seventies, that which is taught is non religion. So as we get more educated people the trend is going to be toward non religion. And the segment of the American population (and the world) that is non religious is going to increase. And added to this is the growing power of the internet as a tool for influencing the minds of others along with educated intellectuals significantly at play in this internet environment .

So unless God Him/Her self actually shows up and kicks a few tushes religion in general is going to become a curiosity as an abnormal mind reality. It is predictable and it is inevitable especially if higher education becomes the norm. Which we all hope that it does.

You are right Rex this website is way faster!

If you're defining "religion" in terms of traditional ways of gathering, affiliating and expressing, I agree. If you're defining "religion" as broadly defining an acknowledgement of a spiritual element to humanity (and the universe), then I disagree. Education, while not being "religious," has not ignored spirituality.

 

[gsa]

The distinguishing feature of Xy is clearly it's espousal of Jesus. Even Catholics recognize that not all members will agree with all teachings. Catholic doctrine does not recognize reincarnation. Unity does. Both are Christian. Both espouse Jesus.

In general I agree. But what constitutes "espousal" is also different in many cases; there are progressive Christians with views of Jesus that are virtually indistinguishable from the views of progressive Jews. What sets them apart is religious practice, tradition, symbolism and self-identification and the central position of Jesus, not so much their beliefs about the meaning of Jesus or what he taught. What do we make of people like Ann Holmes Redding, a defrocked Episcopalian priest who claims both Islam and Christianity? Or someone who claims both Catholicism and Buddhism?