America is Regressing into a Developing Nation for Most People

[Sunstone]

Out of the three you mentioned ,I like this the best, and I have mentioned this in other threads. I think it important to give people a way to be productive.

Me too. The first proposal -- a guaranteed income -- would probably be dangerously inflationary. At least in my opinion.

 

[Sunstone]

Unfortunately, at the moment anyway, this seems to be the path we're on.

I don't want to kick the uber-rich, because I realize that we'd all be exactly like them if we had their money, given we're all human and suffer from the same vices and virtues, but if we are to avoid that outcome, Dave, we're going to need them to push hard for a better one. They're the ones in charge now. People, including the uber-rich, always talk about being far-sighted, but then grab the most they can get today, forgetting about tomorrow.

 

[Stevicus]

In the end, as America goes down the tubes, the rich will suffer too. It's not even in their own best interests to continue the policies that are destroying us. But human foresightedness is almost always outweighed by immediate opportunities for gain. That's what the rich have been doing Selling the future down the drain for dollars today.

I'm not sure that they realize it, though. I can see parallels to how Russian nobility saw themselves in the years leading up to the Revolution. They were living in insular, opulent surroundings, so for them - everything was great and working well. And it was impossible to convince them otherwise. How can anyone really argue against success? As long as everything seems to be okay right now, then what's the problem? "Don't worry, be happy" as the Reagan-Bush team used to say.

That's really why empires fall - because the leadership fails to see what the next challenge is. They become complacent, overconfident, arrogant, thinking they're always right, and far too overly optimistic. As Luke Skywalker said, "Your overconfidence is your weakness." And that's what we're faced with now.

Personally, I'm at the point now where I just have to give it up and accept our fate - whatever it may be. I've seen all the debates and rhetoric, and most of it just convinces that far too many Americans are just plain out to lunch. We deserve our fate. If anything bad happens to America, then we should at least acknowledge that we brought it upon ourselves.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I get that @Sunstone so why is capital flooding into America faster than Honduran migrants? Why is America still the "go to" place on the planet?

Because Canada is too cold. Because you otherwise have a wealthier and more secure middle class and better standards of living.

 

[Spiderman]

America is Regressing into a Developing Nation for Most People

Comments? Observations? Uninformed Rants from Folks Who Didn't Read the Article?

I have shelter, Medical Care that put my broken bones back together, medications, nicotine gum, food, running water, shower, hygiene products, and internet access.

I live in poverty, with the homeless, the mentally ill, the physically handicapped, the criminals, the addicted, the immigrants, the unemployed, the uneducated, the disenfranchised, but cannot complain about how well the government and Catholic Charities care for my kind, that would be dying off without it.

I'm very pleased with how well I see the government and Catholic Charities caring for the poorest of the poor, who would otherwise be incapable of surviving.

Mother nature used to kill us off.

I'm very proud of the American government and Catholic charities, and I get bugged when I see either of those institutions criticized.

We have a heck of a lot more then the vast majority of the world.

Around the world, 946 million people still go to the toilet outside. Eritrea is top of the list, with 77% of its population practising open defecation, a practice which can lead to the contamination of drinking water sources, and the spread of diseases such as cholera, diarrhoea, dysentry, hepatitis A and typhoid. A huge global effort has been focused on reducing these numbers and new data from the WHO/Unicef Joint Monitoring Programme, which has measured the progress made on access to drinking water and sanitation since 1990, shows that there have been improvements in certain areas.

Eritrea’s neighbour Ethiopia has achieved the largest decrease in the proportion of the population practising open defecation, from 92% in 1990 to 29% in 2015.

2.3 billion people don't have a decent toilet.

(WHO/UNICEF Joint Monitoring Programme (JMP) Report 2017)

31% of schools don’t have clean water.

Facts and statistics | WaterAid Global

In view of this Statistics, I don't consider America to be a developing-country at all

 

[sayak83]

America is Regressing into a Developing Nation for Most People

Comments? Observations? Uninformed Rants from Folks Who Didn't Read the Article?

Yes. I completely agree. This is how America is today, though unfortunately a lot of people in US have become too ideologically rigid to see and accept it.

 

[sayak83]

Doesn't this happen every time there is a technological or industrial change? Look what happen to the mill workers of the 19th century when the mills started using steam power instead of man power. There was no great lasting upheaval. Same thing when the farms became industrialized. Sure some people suffered but over all this was a good thing. The same thing is happening in relation to the FTE movement (anybody remember "dial-up").

The article was very transparent about taking digs at "the rich" without pointing to a single person. Seems someone had an ax to grind. Also, the article was posted in April 2017. Maybe the author should re-write a bit of now that the unemployment rate has dropped to below 4% and the manufacturing jobs are on the up sweep.

I agree there is a gap but it's (IMHO) more of an educational or awareness gap which is being quickly closed by my children's children (my three year old grandson is already 'puter literate and he can't even pronounce it). However, I filed this in the same drawer that holds my global warming files.

The middle class grew because they got compulsory free education till 12 th grade, that allowed them to get factory jobs in the 1940-1970 period. Now workers need college education. Without making at least 2year community college education universal and free, middle class will continue to shrink.

 

[BSM1]

The middle class grew because they got compulsory free education till 12 th grade, that allowed them to get factory jobs in the 1940-1970 period. Now workers need college education. Without making at least 2year community college education universal and free, middle class will continue to shrink.

No they don't. What's really needed is more vocational training classes.

 

[Revoltingest]

No they don't. What's really needed is more vocational training classes.

Aye, people need practical educations, not letters after their names.

 

[Sunstone]

No they don't. What's really needed is more vocational training classes.

Community Colleges tend to be heavily oriented towards vocational degrees. Locally, for instance, you can take degrees in machining, welding, auto mechanics, nursing, drafting, and many other job oriented subjects. Also, some subjects that might not appear practical can be quite so. The foreign language courses here are filled with students from the areas five military bases, who need to learn them. Or so a friend of mine who is the chair of the foreign language department tells me.

 

[tytlyf]

I'm curious who you think owns the politicians who run the government. So far as I can see, several lines of evidence come together to strongly support the notion that the politicians and the government are these days beholden to the uber-rich and the major corporations. If so, to claim that "the government creates the problems, not the corporations and the uber-rich" is to be terribly naive.

Think of the largest corporations in the world. Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Agro, Big MIC etc. These corporations control our government. Mostly on the republican side.
Citizens United is a good example of the difference of the parties. Republicans demonize middle class workers.
Only 1 party is in favor of unlimited anonymous corporate donations buying elections.

The problem party is there, but people don't notice it. There are no middle class policies in the republican party. So they trick people into supporting corporate policies over middle class ones.

Using their RW outlets to manipulate the minds of the vulnerable. That's what's going on here.

 

[tytlyf]

Aye, people need practical educations, not letters after their names.

That's already an option. People pursue degrees based on the line of work (and pay) they desire to achieve. Many corporations and businesses require a degree. Who's more responsible, the job seeker going after the education required for a position or the business requiring letters after their names for the job?

 

[Revoltingest]

That's already an option. People pursue degrees based on the line of work (and pay) they desire to achieve. Many corporations and businesses require a degree. Who's more responsible, the job seeker going after the education required for a position or the business requiring letters after their names for the job?

Many students I've known pursued degrees only because it was what was expected of them.
But opportunities for education in the trades are relatively lacking.
- Public schools have gutted programs in wood shop, metal shop, auto mechanics, construction.
- Community colleges often have restrictive admission criteria, eg, to take a welding class, ours
required my son to take an English class he didn't want or need.

 

[BSM1]

Think of the largest corporations in the world. Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Agro, Big MIC etc. These corporations control our government. Mostly on the republican side.
Citizens United is a good example of the difference of the parties. Republicans demonize middle class workers.
Only 1 party is in favor of unlimited anonymous corporate donations buying elections.

The problem party is there, but people don't notice it. There are no middle class policies in the republican party. So they trick people into supporting corporate policies over middle class ones.

Using their RW outlets to manipulate the minds of the vulnerable. That's what's going on here.

Hey! That's what I was going to say.

 

[tytlyf]

Many students I've known pursued degrees only because it was what was expected of them.
But opportunities for education in the trades are relatively lacking.
- Public schools have gutted programs in wood shop, metal shop, auto mechanics, construction.
- Community colleges often have restrictive admission criteria, eg, to take a welding class, ours
required my son to take an English class he didn't want or need.

So you're angry wood shop isn't in schools anymore? I'm sure it still is. Just not as prevalent. In the 21st century, those jobs are on the way out. Gotta keep progressing.

 

[tytlyf]

Hey! That's what I was going to say.

That's what's going on here. Follow the money, dark money. Feel free to list a middle class policy of the republicans.

 

[Koldo]

Many students I've known pursued degrees only because it was what was expected of them.
But opportunities for education in the trades are relatively lacking.
- Public schools have gutted programs in wood shop, metal shop, auto mechanics, construction.
- Community colleges often have restrictive admission criteria, eg, to take a welding class, ours
required my son to take an English class he didn't want or need.

I have known people making quite a living with hands-on jobs, however...
There is one thing in particular that worries me. What happens when these guys get older ?
Senior citizens *cough*like you*cough* might eventually find themselves unable to perform these jobs.
What then ? I am not even counting the possibility of an accident screwing someone over ( which does happen ), nor the health problems one might acquire from working too hard, just the mere fact that one might not have the stamina and/or the strength to keep up with the job and make a decent sum of money.
If anything, I think it is better there aren't a lot of good professionals working in these fields. It makes their work more valuable and offsets part of the problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

So your angry wood shop isn't in schools anymore? I'm sure it still is. Just not as prevalent. In the 21st century, those jobs are on the way out. Gotta keep progressing.

I've never been in an angry wood shop.
All of mine have been happy.
I work with carpenters, builders & cabinet makers.
It's still a very relevant line of work. Pays well too.

 

[Stevicus]

I'm curious who you think owns the politicians who run the government. So far as I can see, several lines of evidence come together to strongly support the notion that the politicians and the government are these days beholden to the uber-rich and the major corporations. If so, to claim that "the government creates the problems, not the corporations and the uber-rich" is to be terribly naive.

So you don't want to hold the government accountable? Give them a free pass because it not their fault they are so easily bribed?

Ultimately, I think it's the people who are responsible for their government, since they're the ones who do the selecting and electing.

But then that begs the question, who are "the people" and why do they vote as they do? Are they being tricked and manipulated? If so, who is manipulating them? I've heard it said that people vote not out of love but fear.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have known people making quite a living with hands-on jobs, however...
There is one thing in particular that worries me. What happens when these guys get older ?
Senior citizens *cough*like you*cough* might eventually find themselves unable to perform these jobs.
What then ? I am not even counting the possibility of an accident screwing someone over ( which does happen ), nor the health problems one might acquire from working too hard, just the mere fact that one might not have the stamina and/or the strength to keep up with the job and make a decent sum of money.
If anything, I think it is better there aren't a lot of good professionals working in these fields. It makes their work more valuable and offsets part of the problem.

I know a great many guys who get into construction when they're young.
Physical work is no problem. But as they age, they find that they must
cut back on that aspect of work, & take on a more supervisory roll.