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American Civil War was about Slavery.

I have read and heard so many people say that the American Civil War was not only about slavery.It is very obvious it was.Here is an article that will clear this up real quick.What are your views?


http://www.upworthy.com/this-west-point-colonel-will-tell-you-what-the-civil-war-was-really-about




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Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I saw this on facebook, very informative, and hard to argue with if he's got his facts straight.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I wonder how anyone could possibly think otherwise?

Easy. You learn about how and why wars get started and how the powerful get the little people to go fight and die for them.

There was nothing new in this article. ( I can't see the vid but I read the transcription) The usual superficial self-congratulation that ignores the financial and power interests of the war hawks of the day.
It is a lot like claiming that the USA invaded Iraq to rescue the people from tyranny and democratize the Middle East.
Tom
 
Easy. You learn about how and why wars get started and how the powerful get the little people to go fight and die for them.

There was nothing new in this article. ( I can't see the vid but I read the transcription) The usual superficial self-congratulation that ignores the financial and power interests of the war hawks of the day.
It is a lot like claiming that the USA invaded Iraq to rescue the people from tyranny and democratize the Middle East.
Tom
What I mean is how can one possibly not believe the truth when it is right there for everyone to see? The facts state the obvious,no need to go too deep.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
The reason the South succeeded was to protect the institution of slavery. Many fought simply people Americans and people are general back simply wanted to fight in a war. Others had convictions of equality 'til death.

The reasons the North attacked was that A.) To maintain the sovereignty of the federal government B.) To end the institution of slavery (more so out of distaste for the institution itself than any sort of proposed race based equality) C.) People of English nature generally don't like to see self-proclaimed Normans institute a mindless scenario of slavery reminiscence of the oppression England went through for centuries before.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
For the Southerners, the Civil War was about the Union army invading Virginia, and they rallied to defend the CSA against an enemy invader.

Once we figured out that all the North wanted to do was free the slaves and let them move out of the South, we stopped fighting. :D
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
While I'll agree that the American Civil War was "about" slavery, I think it's a mistake to assume that it was waged primarily on ideological grounds.

For the southern states, slavery was a mostly economic issue. For the northern powers, the advocation of the abolition of slavery was a political expediency.

I think the video is an over-simplification and a bit slanted.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
The confederacy seceded because the federal government was infringing on their states' rights.

That's why when the Confederacy wrote their constitution, they infringed on every Confederates states right to ever write a law barring slavery:

"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.[14]"

 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What I mean is how can one possibly not believe the truth when it is right there for everyone to see? The facts state the obvious,no need to go too deep.
Because when you do "go deep," you find slavery, though a major issue, was just one of many. Such an approach also tends to gloss over just how deeply entrenched the issue of slavery was in America, and ignore that it was an issue that divided America before it was officially the United States of America.
To say it was just about slavery is to ignore many pieces that lead lead to a series of a successions, the formation of a new nation, and ultimately a war between the two. We should remember it for everything it was, because it was all the pieces that lead to war.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
First, I don't think its appropriate to hang on to the 'Rebel' flag. It is true that the North screwed the South, but its time to forget that and get on with being one country.

Second, for the meaning of the Civil War or the War Between the States I'd like to go by the Gettysburg Address of Abraham Lincoln, which defines it in terms of trying to form a more perfect union, but there were many factors to this war, like user Columbus said. Lincoln put the meaning of the war into the best terms possible.

Third, all those poor lads fighting for the South didn't care much about slavery, but they didn't think much about black people. Neither did the northern troops.

Some people were very vocal against racism, a very small percentage of the population. Those people were the real heroes of the time, the Abolitionists.

At first both sides believed they were fighting for freedom. The south fought for state's rights -- a seemingly righteous cause even today. The southerners knew the Northerners were no less racist. The North had taken economic advantage of the South, much like it was a Third World country. 'States Rights' sounded like a very righteous cause. The North was no less guilty about racism at first. It was only when Abraham Lincoln wrote the Emancipation Proclamation that the war was redefined. Then the South began to lose ideologically, but then it was already at war, stuck still talking about state's rights. The nature of the war and the argument changed for the North, and that was why it won. That doesn't mean it was kind to the South or that it didn't rape our women or that it didn't destroy our food and homes. It doesn't mean Northerners were more righteous but that they chanced upon conditions in which they appeared to be more righteous and also had better weaponry, and their generals outfought our generals. That was long ago though. Nobody in the South today cares, because we weren't directly involved. It was only great grandparents who were involved.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Interesting but irrelevant factoid: Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis were both born in log cabins in Kentucky, less than a year apart, about 100 miles away from each other.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
What do you mean by this?

Hmm... well long story short. Normans, who were a Danish/Viking people who settled and eventually assimilated into France, pretty much took over what is now considered Great Britain starting in 1066, and killed the Anglo-Saxon aristocracy. Anglo-Saxon's were subject to a foreign ruler in a time where might simply meant right. So the contention between people who identify in this manner was very much long going, into the earlier Americans.

Anglo-Saxons v. Normans
Puritans v. Cavaliers.
The North v. the South

"Late in 1862, readers of the Confederacy’s most prestigious literary magazine, the Southern Literary Messenger, found a nine-page account of the history of racial strife that had plunged the nation into civil war. Disunion had been inevitable, according to the author, in a country where a supposedly superior race had joined with one it considered inferior, and with whom co-existence on terms of political equality was impossible. “Never capable, in their best days, of self-government,” the writer mused over that allegedly lesser race, “it is frightful to think of the doom awaiting” them “at the end of this war.”

The racial imbalance that had undermined the Republic had nothing to do with the institution of slavery, however; the anonymous writer for The Messenger was not rehearsing common arguments concerning allegedly impermeable biological boundaries separating whites from blacks. Rather, the racial differences that had driven the war were those distinguishing white inhabitants of the Northern and Southern United States.

According to the writer in The Messenger, whites of the North were simply not of the same race as whites of the South, and it was this biological difference — and all the differences in temperament and capability that came with it — that had propelled sectional dissolution since the founding of the nation.

Such arguments alleging a racial distinction between Northerners and Southerners were voiced in other outlets both before and after the article in the Messenger. It was one way in which Southerners explained secession: between June 1860 and August 1863, a number of prominent Southern magazines ran articles by a series of writers similarly describing the political divisions of North and South as the product of a more profound biological antagonism, what one writer, William Archer Cocke, described as “the radical and irreconcilable difference” dividing North from South. Another anonymous writer in The Messenger argued, also in 1863, “that the race which colonized the blooming South varied very distinctly from that which fixed its home in the bleak regions destined for Yankee expansion.”"


Indeed, such attempts to root Northerners, particularly those from the Northeast, and Southerners in antagonistic bloodlines went back at least as far as 1837, when another anonymous writer in The Messenger wrote, “We, too, of the South, and especially we of Virginia, are descendants, for the most part, of the old cavaliers — the enemies and persecutors of those old puritans — and entertain, perhaps, unwittingly something of an hereditary and historical antipathy against the children, for the fathers’ sake.”

For most Southern proponents, the argument went something like this. In 1066, William the Conqueror subdued the Saxons — a barbarous, uncivilized race — not only providing England with cultural refinement but also imposing upon the island a class of gentry who were genetically equipped to rule. The enduring features of the subdued Saxon race — which because of medieval sociopolitical reality did not tend to intermarry with their Norman overseers — were a resentment of just authority, a tendency toward fanaticism and a reflexive valorization of liberty for its own sake. The Puritan settlers of Massachusetts were the descendants of those vanquished Saxons, separatist fanatics who burned witches until deciding to dump tea into Boston harbor instead.

The Alabama novelist William Falconer, writing in 1860, characterized New Englanders as having been historically unable to govern themselves. Latter-day Puritans born of Saxon stock, they “exhibit those severe traits of fanaticism which had ever marked their history,” he wrote, “squabbling, fighting, singing psalms, burning witches, and talking about liberty — until George III lost the brightest jewel of his colonial diadem.”

The colonies of the South, on the other hand (Jamestown, but also later colonies in the Carolinas), were established by members of Elizabeth’s and James’s courts, descendants of the Norman conquerors, the ruling class of England. Though the federal union that followed the Revolution sufficed, for a time, to assuage the centuries-old enmity between representatives of these bloodlines, the writer for that 1863 issue of The Southern Literary Messenger insisted that “none of the circumstances which blended the interests of both people … none of the alliances and intimate associations of Society itself — have availed to obliterate any of the decided marks of this innate, fixed, enduring difference.”

So in essence, the enduring conflict of the Norman and Saxon races had been transported across the Atlantic, where it would bear the bitter fruit of sectional division. Hence the author of an 1861 essay in De Bow’s Review entitled “The Conflict of the Northern and Southern Races” cited “an original antagonism existing between the North and the South, as a necessary sequence of their radical difference in race, ever active and growing, and which has resulted in the complete disruption of every tie which has bound them together.”

Northerners spun their own renditions of the argument. Yes, in 1066 the Norman Conquest divided Britain racially. Descendants of Saxon serfs and Norman conquerors eventually emigrated, respectively, to Massachusetts and Virginia. But Northeastern racial theorists argued that the true cause of the sectional conflict — Southern slavery — was itself the outgrowth of that English racial conflict, because the Normans had been congenital tyrants. That the descendants of an imperious race who had imposed serfdom upon their Saxon underlings would push the Union toward secession over an insistence upon holding slaves was unsurprising, given what one writer, H. D. Kitchell, had called, in 1850, “The Norman pride, his scorn of labor, his high blood, despotic temper, and aristocratic temper.” Much like his Southern counterparts, Kitchell explained that Northerners and Southerners “were not of the same race.”

This insistence upon a racial incompatibility between Northerners and Southerners was hardly some obscure line of thinking. Resonating across mainstream antebellum culture, it provided for many an account of why the Union had failed, or would. In his 1852 address at the opening of the Athenaeum in Richmond, Va., the Rev. John Robertson spoke of “the piratical Saxons” as “mere barbarians” whose “ignorance” had made the Norman Conquest all but inevitable. And Ralph Waldo Emerson, in his 1854 travelogue “English Traits,” described the Normans as “greedy and ferocious dragoons, sons of greedy and ferocious pirates” who “took every thing they could carry,” who “burned, harried, tortured, and killed, until everything English was brought to the verge of ruin.” For that matter, in 1843 Emerson had described a “New England race” whose Anglo-Saxon bloodline conditioned “the more ideal character” prevalent in the New England states.

After 1863 — after Gettysburg turned the tide of the war, but, more importantly, after Lincoln defined the conflict as a contest over human rights — such racialist accounts of the Civil War more or less dissipated to a vague mythology of Southern cavaliers and New England Puritans. But we might recognize in its essential logic a certain tendency to transform political conflicts into matters of biological hostility. It is by such a logic that struggles in places such as Iraq or Bosnia have sometimes appeared to American onlookers as if rooted in “age-old” antagonisms, after all. By a similar way of thinking, sectional disputes over the Fugitive Slave Law, the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the Dred Scott decision once appeared to many Americans as a merely topical pretenses, under the cover of which latter-day Normans and Saxons exercised their congenital antipathies, ancient conflicts carried over the Atlantic.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/24/puritans-vs-cavaliers/
 

dust1n

Zindīq
For the southern states, slavery was a mostly economic issue. For the northern powers, the advocation of the abolition of slavery was a political expediency.

Absolutely disagree on both counts. That's not to say that slavery wasn't an economic issue for some, or that avocation of the abolition of slavery wasn't viewed as a cynical means of beating the South in war. It was, but it wasn't mostly "economic issues" and for tens of thousands of people, the abolition of slavery was a matter worth dying for far before the war begun.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
It was about slavery as an economic issue, yes. However, those who're saying that the North was unfair to the South prior to the war..

The South held far, far, far more power in the Federal Government than the North did, despite the North having a larger population. The South dominated both the Senate and Congress, and if it voted as a block (which it tended to do), they could pass nigh-any legislation they pleased. The Gag Rule comes to mind. The United States was effectively ran by the South until around the 1850s-1860s, and when it became clear the South couldn't bully the rest of the Union, it decided to take its ball and go home.

For the Southerners, the Civil War was about the Union army invading Virginia, and they rallied to defend the CSA against an enemy invader.

Once we figured out that all the North wanted to do was free the slaves and let them move out of the South, we stopped fighting. :D
Fort Sumter. Confederate sponsorship of rebellions in Pro-Union(and later Neutral) Tennessee. The kidnapping and enslavement or re-enslavement of freed blacks. Bleeding Kansas. Other seizures of Federal Property. The South is the one who provoked the war. Lee agreed with this, but fought on the side of the CSA anyway because he couldn't stomach the thought of shooting his neighbours.
 
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