"American Ethnocentrism" is still a problem in the U.S

[Epic Beard Man]

American Ethnocentrism is not "still" a problem. It has been a growing and disturbing trend since the 1980s at least.

Of course, it also has a lot of internal resistance, although the situation is currently rather sad.

Wouldn't that mean that there really has been no progress if the problem continues to grow?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

First of all, in case you haven't noticed there isn't any one specific culture in the U.S.

It isn't a problem in the U.S. One person doesn’t speak for an entire population in America. Everyone speaks on their own accord and doesn’t represent any one group of people unless it is political and even then it is hard to say what a politician actually represents.

Back to more serious news, you might have missed the Russian actor Ivan Okhlobystin that said he would burn every gay (******) alive in an oven if he had the chance. Who thinks gay people are a living threat to his children. “I don’t want my children to think that being a ****** is okay… If a person can’t choose someone similar from the opposite sex for reproduction, it’s a clear sign of a psychic anomaly, it means they need to be deprived of the vote.” Ivan Okhlobystin, Russian Actor, Says He Would Burn Gays Alive In Ovens

You obviously have no opinion or have anything to debate since you did nothing more than quote other people.

I think racism is serious news. Racism caused many African-Americans to lose their lives. The imprisonment of Japanese in concentration camps. The Irish/Chinese railroads and so on, and the disadvantages and hurdles many ethnic groups that migrated here face..

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Just to help slapstick out.....

When I mentioned "American Ethnocentrism" I identified it as the following:

1) First and foremost to prevent from alienating one particular ethnic group. For example when we discuss racism in America "white Americans" are usually the first to come to mind.

2) Some Americans have a tendency to identify American culture as "white culture" and anything foreign is nonetheless un-American, regardless whether a person was born here or not.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

No, because people of the world don't want to
No, because people are people

I hate the term race but there is not one group of people in the world that do not identify by it, no matter how hard you try to stop them.

So of it is natural built in over thousands of years of evolution. Strange looking people could be dangerous. It can be corrected through education but it is an effective tool for leaders. It is not our fault it was those people. Those people always cause your problems. So we don't educate it out. If everyone liked everyone why would we need government.

It is also used as a weapon by people against people. We deserve special treatment because of what happened in the distant past. I say distant past because most who claim this are well removed from the incident that entitles them. If it is a current incident that effects them it is justice. So the same people that race negatively effects use it to create benefits for them just or not, it keeps race on the minds of all peoples.

There will always be people that believe in a superior race. Challenging them and keeping it in the news is self defeating and people tire of it. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. If you don't want to know them don't ask them.

I an educated homosapien, have no problems with skin color but I do have an issue with homosexuality comprehending what science has said about it but sexually I am prudish as a whole. Do I have that right or do I have to conform?

I would never knowingly use my prejudice against anyone but if interviewed and asked should I blantantly lie or tell the truth?

We can talk about the "humanity is one race" until our face turn blue, that is not the point nor is that which is a rational outlook. The United States of America whether you choose to accept it or not, was created around eurocentrism and the elimination of Native American lands was based on colonialist mentality which was centered around the ideas that non-white cultures were inferior. Even Watson one of the founders of the double helix tried to make the scientific argument that certain ethnicities were genetically inferior.

Racism is a problem.

Like my coworker whom I was discussing this very same subject with, just because Barack Obama identifies himself as African-American doesn't mean the seat of the presidency is the end all to racism. If in fact the very organizations that represent minorities in this countries continue to exist this means that there is still not enough equal representation of the ethnic cultures that call this country home. This is why I posted both Robertson and Kelley's remarks because they are the very remarks that is what continues to become an issue.

You say you have no problem with skin color, fine. But you have an issue with homosexuality...

Why do people rank these two in order of value? As if homosexuality is more important than the discussion of race. Both members of both groups argue close to the same thing (although I would argue that the plight of people of color is slightly different than that of sexual orientation). You are discriminated based on who are and what you were born as. Plain and simple and the fact that people seemingly and unconsciously rank these two in order of importance is the very reason why we need to discuss this.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Some of us never stopped listening, MysticHeath'er.

Judging by some of the responses here, I beg to differ.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Ah, yet I see confusing the recognition of white privilege as equating it to white guilt is one of those Euro-centric assumptions.

Most people of privilege often times don't recognize it..

 

[Vinayaka]

Everyone has some racism in them, whether they like it or not. Not outward nasty racism, but decision-making based somewhat on experiences with other races. It's natural, and falls into the mind's ability to generalise. Some of it might even come off as common sense. Who among us can honestly say we react the same to meeting anyone at all on the street at 11PM? I certainly don't. Particular races scare me, because crime rates in my city do differ by race.

In America, the most obvious I've ever felt was when a hotel clerk recommended a supermarket that was about 10 blocks beyond another supermarket that was obviously catering more to Hispanics. I went to the close one, once I saw it.

I do see a lot of denial about it as well.

 

[Revoltingest]

And now, even being privileged is to be in a scorned group.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Everyone has some racism in them (1), whether they like it or not. Not outward nasty racism, but decision-making based somewhat on experiences with other races (2). It's natural, and falls into the mind's ability to generalise (3). Some of it might even come off as common sense. Who among us can honestly say we react the same to meeting anyone at all on the street at 11PM? I certainly don't. Particular races scare me, because crime rates in my city do differ by race (4).

In America, the most obvious I've ever felt was when a hotel clerk recommended a supermarket that was about 10 blocks beyond another supermarket that was obviously catering more to Hispanics. I went to the close one, once I saw it.

I do see a lot of denial about it as well.

Regarding position (1) "Everyone is a bit racist" is a common misnomer that many commoners in the states like to think. A better comment would be to say "everyone has some prejudices." I think it's safer to say that we all have prejudices and in some ways cultural biases whether American or ethnic. to say "everyone is racist" leaves Pandora's box open for accusations towards people who may have never grown up racially prejudiced or racist.

Regarding (2) you're referring to cultural prejudices based on real-life experiences which are stereotypical and nature and in which, do not represent a majority. If you choose to maintain cultural biases based on pre-conceived notions on those experiences then you leave yourself open to be proven wrong.

Regarding (3) Going by your first 3 points is it natural that everyone is racially prejudiced based on limited individual experiences to make broad sweeping generalizations? Apparently, according to you, it is natural to say "most black people steal, and even though I don't know most black people the ones I encounter steal." Or better yet, "all asians are smart. Even though I don't know all asians, the ones I've encountered are smart." Making generalizations without knowing the facts except what you see on television or a negative encounter is very dangerous.

Regarding (4) crime happens everywhere. Yes crime happens quite frequently (not sure where you live) in the inner cities, but if you allow racial statistics based on crime to make you generalize I think it would based on your comments here, racially prejudiced. You're claiming that "we're all in the same boat." No, and in fact I think it's rather an insult for others who may not share your views for you to lump them in with your mentality. If I thought like you I would surely be a suspicious and yet a miserable person.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm sorry I offended you, or derailed the topic. The intent was to analyse the way the human mind works. It can recognise cats over dogs by age 2. (Because of the ability to generalise) Parents will refuse to name their kids ______ because they have encountered too many _________s that they didn't get along with. It's a natural outcome. Not a positive one, but still natural. The subconscious mind works that way. Same thing if you buy 2 straight vehicles of a particular brand, and they both turn out to be clunkers, why would you go buy the same car again? They just don't want to be reminded of that negative experience. Most people try very hard not to make broad sweeping generalisations, but it takes a certain amount of cultural awareness or experiences to help them out with this.

Most intelligent people recognise this tendency to generalise and work on not generalising. Others are blissfully unaware they are even doing it, even denying they do it.

Of course you are free to take my comments to task.

I spend 95% of my time in life as a minority within a minority. I watch myself with regard to racism. Still I do catch my mind making errors in this regard at times.

 

[George-ananda]

And now, even being privileged is to be in a scorned group.

I like that.

Really to be PC, you can only openly criticize white non-sufficiently liberal heterosexual males as a group with no backlash. What other group (as a group) is guilty of anything to the PC crowd.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm sorry I offended you, or derailed the topic. The intent was to analyse the way the human mind works. It can recognise cats over dogs by age 2. (Because of the ability to generalise) Parents will refuse to name their kids ______ because they have encountered too many _________s that they didn't get along with. It's a natural outcome. Not a positive one, but still natural. The subconscious mind works that way. Same thing if you buy 2 straight vehicles of a particular brand, and they both turn out to be clunkers, why would you go buy the same car again? They just don't want to be reminded of that negative experience. Most people try very hard not to make broad sweeping generalisations, but it takes a certain amount of cultural awareness or experiences to help them out with this.

Most intelligent people recognise this tendency to generalise and work on not generalising. Others are blissfully unaware they are even doing it, even denying they do it.

Of course you are free to take my comments to task.

I spend 95% of my time in life as a minority within a minority. I watch myself with regard to racism. Still I do catch my mind making errors in this regard at times.

I'm not personally offended. I'm just not privy in generalizations based on some individual experience. You said in the following:

"Same thing if you buy 2 straight vehicles of a particular brand, and they both turn out to be clunkers, why would you go buy the same car again?"

Well in the real world, it wouldn't be so much as the brand or the make of the vehicle, it would be the car dealer that decides to sell a consumer an inoperable vehicle.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

And now, even being privileged is to be in a scorned group.

I didn't realize being white and privileged especially at the expense of others is something that is not to be criticized.

 

[Slapstick]

I think racism is serious news. Racism caused many African-Americans to lose their lives. The imprisonment of Japanese in concentration camps. The Irish/Chinese railroads and so on, and the disadvantages and hurdles many ethnic groups that migrated here face..

It’s only a problem for people that choose to make it one. However, there is nothing racist about the comments you quoted.

Racism by definition is: 1) A belief in or doctrine asserting racial differences in character, intelligence, etc. and the superiority of one race over another or others; racist doctrine also, typically, seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races. 2) Any program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, etc., specifically, such a program or practice that upholds the political or economic domination of one race over another or others. 3) Feelings or actions of hatred and bigotry toward a person or persons because of their race.

You might be able to make an argument that they are prejudice, but even that is debatable. Seeing how neither of the comments displayed hatred against another groups or race of people. Expressing an opinion is not hate speech.

Prejudice by definition is: 1) A judgment or opinion formed before the facts are known; preconceived idea, favorable or, more usually, unfavorable. 2) a) a judgment or opinion held in disregard of facts that contradicts it; unreasonable bias [a prejudice against modern art] b) the holding of such judgments or opinions. 3) Suspicion, intolerance, or irrational hatred of other races, creeds, regions, occupations, etc. 4) injury or harm resulting as from some judgment or action of another or others.

The above definitions are from Webster’s New World: College Dictionary – Fourth Edition.

If you are referring to people that lost their lives in early America, then I would suggest that you thoroughly research the topics of how America was established, how slaves came to America and which countries brought them here, how white people were slaves and indentured servants and how white people had it just as bad in the south if not worse after the America Revolutionary War leading up to the great depression. Then I would suggest that you research the progressive era.

To categorize America as being this or that is to ignore history and to let it speak for itself.If you still want to have a conversation about racism or prejudice, them I'm sure anyone will be more than happy to have that conversation with you, but the comments you posted are far from being racist.

More disturbing is the recent news about Alan Turning being chemically castrated for being a homosexual. Queen pardons Alan Turing, code-breaker castrated for homosexuality - CNN.com

Just to help slapstick out.....

When I mentioned "American Ethnocentrism" I identified it as the following:

1) First and foremost to prevent from alienating one particular ethnic group. For example when we discuss racism in America "white Americans" are usually the first to come to mind.

I know what you mean and it is quite clear. You want to blame white people that live in America for the woes of the world. America isn't a country based on any one particular race, nor is America identified by any one particular race or ethnicity. It is a nation of many nationalities and faiths, built on the ideology of freedom and liberty from tyranny of oppressive rule.

2) Some Americans have a tendency to identify American culture as "white culture" and anything foreign is nonetheless un-American, regardless whether a person was born here or not.

Anyone that lives in America regardless of their skin color, religion, sexual orientation, age, social status, income, etc. is an American first and foremost. There is no such thing as un-American unless you are somehow against freedom. I could be against certain things in the constitution, but that doesn’t make me un-American. The constitution is a living and growing document that changes from generation to generation. What was acceptable a 100 years ago may no longer be acceptable today and things in a republic, or democratic society are likely to change.

When you say, America is ethnocentric the first thing that comes to mind is that you think all white people are racist and don’t accept diversity or cultural differences. People that live in America are Americans first and their culture, religion, etc. comes second. It is a nation “for the people, by the people.”

 

[Revoltingest]

I didn't realize being white and privileged especially at the expense of others is something that is not to be criticized.

I didn't mention a race, whether the privilege is at anyone else's expense, or anything about
permission to criticize. You could be expressing a dysfunctional form of ethnocentrism, eh?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It’s only a problem for people that choose to make it one. However, there is nothing racist about the comments you quoted.

Racism by definition is: 1) A belief in or doctrine asserting racial differences in character, intelligence, etc. and the superiority of one race over another or others; racist doctrine also, typically, seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races. 2) Any program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, etc., specifically, such a program or practice that upholds the political or economic domination of one race over another or others. 3) Feelings or actions of hatred and bigotry toward a person or persons because of their race.

You might be able to make an argument that they are prejudice, but even that is debatable. Seeing how neither of the comments displayed hatred against another groups or race of people. Expressing an opinion is not hate speech.

Prejudice by definition is: 1) A judgment or opinion formed before the facts are known; preconceived idea, favorable or, more usually, unfavorable. 2) a) a judgment or opinion held in disregard of facts that contradicts it; unreasonable bias [a prejudice against modern art] b) the holding of such judgments or opinions. 3) Suspicion, intolerance, or irrational hatred of other races, creeds, regions, occupations, etc. 4) injury or harm resulting as from some judgment or action of another or others.

The above definitions are from Webster’s New World: College Dictionary – Fourth Edition.

If you are referring to people that lost their lives in early America, then I would suggest that you thoroughly research the topics of how America was established, how slaves came to America and which countries brought them here, how white people were slaves and indentured servants and how white people had it just as bad in the south if not worse after the America Revolutionary War leading up to the great depression. Then I would suggest that you research the progressive era.

To categorize America as being this or that is to ignore history and to let it speak for itself.If you still want to have a conversation about racism or prejudice, them I'm sure anyone will be more than happy to have that conversation with you, but the comments you posted are far from being racist.

More disturbing is the recent news about Alan Turning being chemically castrated for being a homosexual. Queen pardons Alan Turing, code-breaker castrated for homosexuality - CNN.com

I know what you mean and it is quite clear. You want to blame white people that live in America for the woes of the world. America isn't a country based on any one particular race, nor is America identified by any one particular race or ethnicity. It is a nation of many nationalities and faiths, built on the ideology of freedom and liberty from tyranny of oppressive rule.

Anyone that lives in America regardless of their skin color, religion, sexual orientation, age, social status, income, etc. is an American first and foremost. There is no such thing as un-American unless you are somehow against freedom. I could be against certain things in the constitution, but that doesn’t make me un-American. The constitution is a living and growing document that changes from generation to generation. What was acceptable a 100 years ago may no longer be acceptable today and things in a republic, or democratic society are likely to change.

When you say, America is ethnocentric the first thing that comes to mind is that you think all white people are racist and don’t accept diversity or cultural differences. People that live in America are Americans first and their culture, religion, etc. comes second. It is a nation “for the people, by the people.”

"It’s only a problem for people that choose to make it one"

Yes. People who are victims of racially discrimionation chose to endure such experiences. By the way save your definitions for someone else. If you have to define elementary words in this thread then that means you truly do not understand the context in which racial discrimination is acted out.

" how white people were slaves and indentured servants and how white people had it just as bad in the south if not worse after the America Revolutionary War leading up to the great depression."

This is proto-typical stormfront ideology. I do not deny that slavery was a common practice in pre and post middle ages. I do not deny that within Africa or in Scotland and in the Steppes of Mongolia there were surfs. you asked me to read the history of the United States and with respect to this subject I have. The United States was not form in altruism, nor was it formed with the willfull cohesion of the Native American help and early African slaves.

"If you still want to have a conversation about racism or prejudice."

I really don't think you want to have an honest discussion about racism, especially since you're asking me to read, assuming I haven't. Then you insult my intelligence by posting elementary terms that I'm quite aware of without noticing that you and I merely share two opposing views. So no, I do not believe you want to have an honest discussion.


"More disturbing"

See? That is my point. Unlike you, I do not rank social issues especially of this magnitude on their level of importance.


"I know what you mean and it is quite clear. You want to blame white people that live in America for the woes of the world."

Point out in this thread that I said that please.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I didn't mention a race, whether the privilege is at anyone else's expense, or anything about
permission to criticize. You could be expressing a dysfunctional form of ethnocentrism, eh?

Well I think the subject thread would be obvious in my response. If we are going to talk about privilege in general (not racial privilege) then perhaps we all need to be clear in that regard.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm just not privy in generalizations based on some individual experience.

You're missing my point entirely, so I'll try once more. The ability to generalise is an important thinking skill. If Homer Simpson could generalise, he wouldn't repeatedly electrocute himself. He is totally random, and reasons that the electrical current may be off, even though it shocked him just 3 seconds earlier. It is a skill that he has yet to learn. I'm just saying that we have to unlearn this thinking skill that is very programmed into everyone's mind. My comments aren't about racism per se. They are about the reason behind people being totally unaware and overgeneralising. In other words its a psychological analysis for the causes of racism.

So if you're not privy to making generalisations based on your own experiences, I'm not really what that says.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You're missing my point entirely, so I'll try once more. The ability to generalise is an important thinking skill. If Homer Simpson could generalise, he wouldn't repeatedly electrocute himself. He is totally random, and reasons that the electrical current may be off, even though it shocked him just 3 seconds earlier. It is a skill that he has yet to learn. I'm just saying that we have to unlearn this thinking skill that is very programmed into everyone's mind. My comments aren't about racism per se. They are about the reason behind people being totally unaware and overgeneralising. In other words its a psychological analysis for the causes of racism.

So if you're not privy to making generalisations based on your own experiences, I'm not really what that says.

Um ok.....It's not exactly what you implied in your previous post but ok.

 

[Slapstick]

"It’s only a problem for people that choose to make it one"

Yes. People who are victims of racially discrimionation chose to endure such experiences. By the way save your definitions for someone else. If you have to define elementary words in this thread then that means you truly do not understand the context in which racial discrimination is acted out.

I am actually trying to help you understand the words you are using instead of running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

" how white people were slaves and indentured servants and how white people had it just as bad in the south if not worse after the America Revolutionary War leading up to the great depression."

This is proto-typical stormfront ideology. I do not deny that slavery was a common practice in pre and post middle ages. I do not deny that within Africa or in Scotland and in the Steppes of Mongolia there were surfs. you asked me to read the history of the United States and with respect to this subject I have. The United States was not form in altruism, nor was it formed with the willfull cohesion of the Native American help and early African slaves.

Well good. I'm glad you know a little something about per-industrial, per-American history.

"If you still want to have a conversation about racism or prejudice."

I really don't think you want to have an honest discussion about racism, especially since you're asking me to read, assuming I haven't. Then you insult my intelligence by posting elementary terms that I'm quite aware of without noticing that you and I merely share two opposing views. So no, I do not believe you want to have an honest discussion.

If you take it as an insult on your intelligence then I can't help you. Just pointing out a common misconception.

"More disturbing"

See? That is my point. Unlike you, I do not rank social issues especially of this magnitude on their level of importance.

No, what is disturbing is that you want to equate comments made about Santa and Duck Dynasty to racism. You do not fully understand what racism or prejudice actually is if you are interchangeably comparing the two.

"I know what you mean and it is quite clear. You want to blame white people that live in America for the woes of the world."

Point out in this thread that I said that please.

Try reading the comment I quoted of yours.