"American Ethnocentrism" is still a problem in the U.S

[Revoltingest]

As much as you believing that all I want is to play the victim card.

That inference was not what I intended or believe.

So you tell me.

My inference seemed accurate based upon your post, but wrong based upon what I know of you.
So rather than tell you, I had to ask if I had it right.
Tis dangerous to just run with one of several possibilities.

 

[Slapstick]

Privileges in America are not granted to people based on the color of someone’s skin. Privilege 1) a right, advantage, favor, or immunity specially granted to one; esp., a right held by a certain individual, group, or class., and withheld from certain others or all others. 2) a basic civil right, guaranteed by a government. 3) An option, as a put or call, to buy or sell a stock (Webster’s College Dictionary – 4th Edition). According to the definition of privilege (2 and 3) we all have privileges in America. I think that is something everyone should be proud of or happy for and not view it as a discrepancy. However it is a problem for those who think #1 is somehow related to a specific race of people when it really isn’t.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Ha! Looks like I struck a nerve.

That inference was not what I intended or believe.

My inference seemed accurate based upon your post, but wrong based upon what I know of you.
So rather than tell you, I had to ask if I had it right.
Tis dangerous to just run with one of several possibilities.

It's been brought to my attention several times that my position sounds as if I'm victim-pandering. That all I'm doing is making things worse. That I play the race card. That I'm worsening the status quo. Sucks to be thought of in an unsavory light, don't it?

All I said is that if one is actually offended by being told they're privileged, I believe it's the result of thinking they deserved a kind of safety, security, opportunity, and lack of discrimination based on earning it all. The status quo believes that our society believes it is where it should be, that there is no such thing as inequality, or that if it is an unequal society, it certainly "isn't my fault....I actually worked my butt off to get what I need, and those people bellyaching about lack of rights just need to do what I've done and earn it."

Basically, the status quo assumes a completely meritorious culture, when all benefits are earned according to what work one has done across the board. Or that if somebody is calling out the unfairness in the system, the status quo suggests that life isn't fair....so stop bellyaching and whining and get off your lazy butt.

This is why I believe people who take offense at suggesting they are privileged is because they think they actually earned all the rewards of their lives.

Let me put it another way....rich folks are in a position of privilege if they wish to start a business or go to college more so than people in lower socio-economic classes. Kiddos have the option to ask daddy for money. Not all kids have that option. It's easier for rich kids to go into certain ventures than others who don't have that easy option.

Is this hating the rich? No.

Is this suggesting they need to stop what they're doing? No.

Should they feel guilty for having that privilege? Not at all.

But should they think they earned that option? Of course not. The privilege is the unearned advantage over having quicker access to start-up capital for businesses or funds to go to any college they wish.

I would suggest the same thing that if I were to say they are in a privileged class, and they are offended by it...it doesn't mean they're classist. It's just that they're afraid that I want to take away their options when somebody wants to change the status quo.

IOW, the offense comes from a fear of a perceived threat, in my personal opinion.

FWIW, I don't think you or anybody else in this thread is racist. I make it a point to differentiate between people being racist and people who are unaware of their privilege.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ha! Looks like I struck a nerve.

Really? I thought I'd accidentally poked a hornets' nest, & was just treading carefully. (I don't have diplomatic immunity.)

It's been brought to my attention several times that my position sounds as if I'm victim-pandering. That all I'm doing is making things worse. That I play the race card. That I'm worsening the status quo. Sucks to be thought of in an unsavory light, don't it?

I wouldn't know an unkind word. Everyone always sings my praises.
I can't speak for others, but I was addressing your posts & how they
came across to me, rather than diagnosing your personal peccadilloes.

All I said is that if one is actually offended by being told they're privileged, I believe it's the result of thinking they deserved a kind of safety, security, opportunity, and lack of discrimination based on earning it all. The status quo believes that our society believes it is where it should be, that there is no such thing as inequality, or that if it is an unequal society, it certainly "isn't my fault....I actually worked my butt off to get what I need, and those people bellyaching about lack of rights just need to do what I've done and earn it."

See....it was necessary for me to ask.

Basically, the status quo assumes a completely meritorious culture...

Not my assumption. I'd replace "completely" with "largely".

...when all benefits are earned according to what work one has done across the board. Or that if somebody is calling out the unfairness in the system, the status quo suggests that life isn't fair....so stop bellyaching and whining and get off your lazy butt.
This is why I believe people who take offense at suggesting they are privileged is because they think they actually earned all the rewards of their lives.
Let me put it another way....rich folks are in a position of privilege if they wish to start a business or go to college more so than people in lower socio-economic classes. Kiddos have the option to ask daddy for money. Not all kids have that option. It's easier for rich kids to go into certain ventures than others who don't have that easy option.
Is this hating the rich? No.
Is this suggesting they need to stop what they're doing? No.
Should they feel guilty for having that privilege? Not at all.
But should they think they earned that option? Of course not. The privilege is the unearned advantage over having quicker access to start-up capital for businesses or funds to go to any college they wish.
I would suggest the same thing that if I were to say they are in a privileged class, and they are offended by it...it doesn't mean they're classist. It's just that they're afraid that I want to take away their options when somebody wants to change the status quo.
IOW, the offense comes from a fear of a perceived threat, in my personal opinion.
FWIW, I don't think you or anybody else in this thread is racist. I make it a point to differentiate between people being racist and people who are unaware of their privilege.

No argument here.

I know, I know...all that writing & my response is so short.
It's late, & I'm losing concentration.

Edit: I'll add that I think you've clarified your position.

 

[Sunstone]

I think the proper name for someone who recognizes that some folks in our society are more privileged than other folks is not "victim", but rather "realist". The notion that everyone gets to where they are by merit and merit alone strikes me as hopelessly romantic. Might as well believe in fairies and unicorns.

A friend of mine -- a friend I've known almost my entire life -- was raised in a poor family whose income fell below the Federal poverty line during all the years he was growing up. He went to a good university when tuitions were still affordable, entered the business world, made the right friends, and for years consistently worked 60 to 80 hours a week. I called him one Christmas to find he was slacking off by only working until one in the afternoon that day. He eventually became a millionaire, then a multi-millionaire. He once told me that his success was only partly due to merit -- that is, due to his hard work and good sense. The rest, he said, was due to factors outside his control, such as the work ethic instilled in him by his family, the availability of Pell grants to pay for his tuition at public universities, the generosity of his business friends in connecting him with opportunities, and -- just as important as anything else -- to sheer dumb luck. I consider him to be a realist. Anyone less hard nosed than him about it, I consider to be a romantic.

 

[Poeticus]

Don't mind me, but it's funny (and ironic) when White people argue against each other about race and socio-ethnic situations of minorities in Western countries. It's even more ironic that no Westerner of a minority background has given his/her viewpoint; after all, it seems that this conversation has become monopolized by two to three members - who are all, if I recall correctly, White.

I don't mean to interrupt, but would you guys like to hear me out regarding this whole thing - perhaps a succinct opinion or experience-related observation from me? I'm brown and of a minority background, BTW.

 

[Slapstick]

I don't mean to interrupt, but would you guys like to hear me out regarding this whole thing - perhaps a succinct opinion or experience-related observation from me? I'm brown and of a minority background, BTW.

Sure, go ahead!

 

[Me Myself]

Don't mind me, but it's funny (and ironic) when White people argue against each other about race and socio-ethnic situations of minorities in Western countries. It's even more ironic that no Westerner of a minority background has given his/her viewpoint; after all, it seems that this conversation has become monopolized by two to three members - who are all, if I recall correctly, White.

I don't mean to interrupt, but would you guys like to hear me out regarding this whole thing - perhaps a succinct opinion or experience-related observation from me? I'm brown and of a minority background, BTW.

Has something been stopping you?

 

[Revoltingest]

Don't mind me, but it's funny (and ironic) when White people argue against each other about race and socio-ethnic situations of minorities in Western countries. It's even more ironic that no Westerner of a minority background has given his/her viewpoint; after all, it seems that this conversation has become monopolized by two to three members - who are all, if I recall correctly, White.

We noticed it too.

I don't mean to interrupt, but would you guys like to hear me out regarding this whole thing - perhaps a succinct opinion or experience-related observation from me? I'm brown and of a minority background, BTW.

I'll extend my invite too.
The more the merrier!

 

[Poeticus]

I don't mean to interrupt, but would you guys like to hear me out regarding this whole thing - perhaps a succinct opinion or experience-related observation from me? I'm brown and of a minority background, BTW.

Sure, go ahead!

Has something been stopping you?

I'll extend my invite too.
The more the merrier!

I have been a lawful and legal resident of Maryland for 10+ years. In all that time, I can recall only two incidents which were racio-supremicist in nature. However, they may not count since they occurred on the Boardwalk in Ocean City, where a few kids (all White, btw) were calling me racial slurs - and, they were also a little drunk (it was Beach Week, after all). Apart from that, I have never experienced anything that can qualify as [full blown] racist or discriminatory, which may have something to do with the fact that I speak English articulately [with no "foreign" accent] and come off as an American, through and through. However, me stating this experience should in no way be misconstrued as being definitive that others of minority backgrounds do not experience a lot of discrimination. I'm sure many of them do; and I'm sure that many of them do not. This experience that I am sharing should in no way downplay the daily discrimination that may or may not occur in the US.

But, I find that being industrious, working, being honest to those around me, and living truly, comes off as desirable and admirable to those of majority background here in Maryland. Through such living, I find that I am given respect and am treated as "one of us". I am not treated as an "outsider". Marylanders have shown me a lot of love, to be honest. And, no matter how much I reciprocate, I truly believe that it will never be enough to pay off the debt of kindness that I have experienced and received.

However, what I have noticed, instead, is that there is a class divide, rather than a full blown racial divide in many regions or areas of the United States. Those of majority background and minority background both, as per my experience, have been subjected to class-discrimination rather than full blown discrimination based on race. (Just my observation.)

ps - Calling me "Kumar" does get a little old after a while.

 

[Me Myself]

I have been a lawful and legal resident of Maryland for 10+ years. In all that time, I can recall only two incidents which were racio-supremicist in nature. However, they may not count since they occurred on the Boardwalk in Ocean City, where a few kids (all White, btw) were calling me racial slurs - and, they were also a little drunk (it was Beach Week, after all). Apart from that, I have never experienced anything that can qualify as [full blown] racist or discriminatory, which may have something to do with the fact that I speak English articulately [with no "foreign" accent] and come off as an American, through and through. However, me stating this experience should in no way be misconstrued as being definitive that others of minority backgrounds do not experience a lot of discrimination. I'm sure many of them do; and I'm sure that many of them do not. This experience that I am sharing should in no way downplay the daily discrimination that may or may not occur in the US.

But, I find that being industrious, working, being honest to those around me, and living truly, comes off as desirable and admirable to those of majority background here in Maryland. Through such living, I find that I am given respect and am treated as "one of us". I am not treated as an "outsider". Marylanders have shown me a lot of love, to be honest. And, no matter how much I reciprocate, I truly believe that it will never be enough to pay off the debt of kindness that I have experienced and received.

However, what I have noticed, instead, is that there is a class divide, rather than a full blown racial divide in many regions or areas of the United States. Those of majority background and minority background both, as per my experience, have been subjected to class-discrimination rather than full blown discrimination based on race. (Just my observation.)

ps - Calling me "Kumar" does get a little old after a while.

Interesting, thanks for sharing

Well yeah, class divition can indeed be a pain and what you say of not having foreign accent surely must help.

 

[Slapstick]

I have been a lawful and legal resident of Maryland for 10+ years. In all that time, I can recall only two incidents which were racio-supremicist in nature. However, they may not count since they occurred on the Boardwalk in Ocean City, where a few kids (all White, btw) were calling me racial slurs - and, they were also a little drunk (it was Beach Week, after all). Apart from that, I have never experienced anything that can qualify as [full blown] racist or discriminatory, which may have something to do with the fact that I speak English articulately [with no "foreign" accent] and come off as an American, through and through. However, me stating this experience should in no way be misconstrued as being definitive that others of minority backgrounds do not experience a lot of discrimination. I'm sure many of them do; and I'm sure that many of them do not. This experience that I am sharing should in no way downplay the daily discrimination that may or may not occur in the US.

But, I find that being industrious, working, being honest to those around me, and living truly, comes off as desirable and admirable to those of majority background here in Maryland. Through such living, I find that I am given respect and am treated as "one of us". I am not treated as an "outsider". Marylanders have shown me a lot of love, to be honest. And, no matter how much I reciprocate, I truly believe that it will never be enough to pay off the debt of kindness that I have experienced and received.

However, what I have noticed, instead, is that there is a class divide, rather than a full blown racial divide in many regions or areas of the United States. Those of majority background and minority background both, as per my experience, have been subjected to class-discrimination rather than full blown discrimination based on race. (Just my observation.)

ps - Calling me "Kumar" does get a little old after a while.

meh... class divide only exists in the minds of those who think they are better than everyone else.

btw: thanks for sharing some of your experiences.

 

[Sunstone]

meh... class divide only exists in the minds of those who think they are better than everyone else.

Spot on! Me and Pete Peterson kick back in the same country club every weekend, just chillin' and sharing tales of the maids we've had to fire that week. Ain't no class division between us bros. None at all.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Really? I thought I'd accidentally poked a hornets' nest, & was just treading carefully. (I don't have diplomatic immunity.)

I wouldn't know an unkind word. Everyone always sings my praises.
I can't speak for others, but I was addressing your posts & how they
came across to me, rather than diagnosing your personal peccadilloes.

See....it was necessary for me to ask.

Not my assumption. I'd replace "completely" with "largely".

No argument here.

I know, I know...all that writing & my response is so short.
It's late, & I'm losing concentration.

Edit: I'll add that I think you've clarified your position.

*puts cat toys away*

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I have been a lawful and legal resident of Maryland for 10+ years. In all that time, I can recall only two incidents which were racio-supremicist in nature. However, they may not count since they occurred on the Boardwalk in Ocean City, where a few kids (all White, btw) were calling me racial slurs - and, they were also a little drunk (it was Beach Week, after all). Apart from that, I have never experienced anything that can qualify as [full blown] racist or discriminatory, which may have something to do with the fact that I speak English articulately [with no "foreign" accent] and come off as an American, through and through. However, me stating this experience should in no way be misconstrued as being definitive that others of minority backgrounds do not experience a lot of discrimination. I'm sure many of them do; and I'm sure that many of them do not. This experience that I am sharing should in no way downplay the daily discrimination that may or may not occur in the US.

But, I find that being industrious, working, being honest to those around me, and living truly, comes off as desirable and admirable to those of majority background here in Maryland. Through such living, I find that I am given respect and am treated as "one of us". I am not treated as an "outsider". Marylanders have shown me a lot of love, to be honest. And, no matter how much I reciprocate, I truly believe that it will never be enough to pay off the debt of kindness that I have experienced and received.

However, what I have noticed, instead, is that there is a class divide, rather than a full blown racial divide in many regions or areas of the United States. Those of majority background and minority background both, as per my experience, have been subjected to class-discrimination rather than full blown discrimination based on race. (Just my observation.)

ps - Calling me "Kumar" does get a little old after a while.

I get what you're saying. There is no legal segregation anymore, but the stratification that exists is still based on easy access to ownership - not of people anymore, though. A man cannot own his wife anymore and cannot own slaves. But given that historically we in the U.S. are still such a short time removed from abolition and suffrage, the culture is continuing to play catch-up.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think the proper name for someone who recognizes that some folks in our society are more privileged than other folks is not "victim", but rather "realist". The notion that everyone gets to where they are by merit and merit alone strikes me as hopelessly romantic. Might as well believe in fairies and unicorns.

A friend of mine -- a friend I've known almost my entire life -- was raised in a poor family whose income fell below the Federal poverty line during all the years he was growing up. He went to a good university when tuitions were still affordable, entered the business world, made the right friends, and for years consistently worked 60 to 80 hours a week. I called him one Christmas to find he was slacking off by only working until one in the afternoon that day. He eventually became a millionaire, then a multi-millionaire. He once told me that his success was only partly due to merit -- that is, due to his hard work and good sense. The rest, he said, was due to factors outside his control, such as the work ethic instilled in him by his family, the availability of Pell grants to pay for his tuition at public universities, the generosity of his business friends in connecting him with opportunities, and -- just as important as anything else -- to sheer dumb luck. I consider him to be a realist. Anyone less hard nosed than him about it, I consider to be a romantic.

This is so right that you've looped around yourself several times.

Every success I've had, I'd attribute it to constant networking, striking when the iron is hot and taking advantage of an opportunity, a willingness to take risks, and a healthy dose of that sheer dumb luck.

Doesn't mean I don't believe in hard work. I totally believe in it. But I also believe in the image of a hamster working really really hard running on the hamster wheel truly believing he's getting somewhere. Awareness of available resources, constant awareness of where one is at and what possibilities exist, setting a realistic, time-sensitive goal in front; and having a phenomenal network of people (this this this...SO THIS....) is key.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

o i c, kk

You see what?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It seems like the only person that can’t get over race is you Epic_Beard_Man (1). You are the very instigator of the topic you created and have a bad case of foot-in-the-mouth. :foot:

I will give you a real world example of racism and how it affects everyone. Not just any one group of people.

First all I am white and American (2) - Nice to you meet you. My ancestors (family) came from Germany and Sweden. I had a nice talk today with family and friends and one of them shared some of her experiences in Nazi Germany where she lived while it was ruled by Adolf Hitler. The Nazi military would patrol around the streets. As a young girl she would her gun fire outside all the time. As you know or may not, if people did not join the Nazi regime then they would be killed, end of story. That is racism. They followed racial theories that they developed to create a master race. They would go from house to house looking for young girls. When they went to her house she would have to hide from them under the couch cushions while her brothers would sit on top of her and act as normal and casual as possible to flatten out the cushions so the Nazi soldiers wouldn’t notice she was under them. Her brother laughed and a Nazi soldier grabbed him by the chin and asked him what is funny. They would take young girls out of their houses away from their parents (family) to Germanize them. She now lives in America. The entire Nazi youth was indoctrinated under the Nazi regime as well. People had no choice, no options, but to surrender and be part of a racist totalitarian regime or be executed.

Your 3rd grade squabble over the color of Santa and some redneck’s blabberings pale (3) in comparison as to what racism actually is and is starting to become rather comical. I honestly cannot believe you are still trying to debate this.


If you didn’t want to debate this and just wanted to voice an opinion then you shouldn’t have placed it in the general debates section. A more suitable place for it would be in the general discussion area.I'm sure you would get a lot more sympathy votes there.

Responding to (1)

I can't get over what? You're in my thread and are responding to the subject. I'm fairly new here so what can I not get over? Race? Racism? This is the first thread I've made regarding this subject.

Responding to (2)

There lies the problem.....

Responding to (3)

I'm not concerned about a military that was formed behind a closet homosexual Jew (no offense to the Jewish brethren here) who blew his brains out when the allies were closing in on him. Alas you don't understand. I'm really wasting my time with you so I'll end with this....

You have no place to say what or how I should feel about this subject. If you don't like the subject why participate in this thread? You're so bent on talking about what "pales" in comparison to what you think it's important. Again, you fail at debating.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The weird part is that I don't personally see so-called "minorities" playing the race card all that much. I do see a lot of white people playing the race card though supposedly on behalf of those downtrodden folks crushed by so-called white privilege.

What puzzled me about this entire conversation is that Americans are more ethnocentric than other groups. That is something I am doubtful about. For example, here in LotusLand, many will tell you that people who live in Toronto, Canada see themselves as being at the centre of the universe. Meanwhile those of us on the West Coast don't actually believe there is any intelligent life beyond the Rockies.

you'll be surprised on Yahoo.....

Every subject on "black people" it seems non-blacks appear to play the race card before anyone of African-American (or person of color) descent even responds. Funny, recently there was a subject on "Hispanics falling behind academically" sooooo many people made comments on how Hispanics don't talk english at home or Hispanics come here illegally. So much internal racism I could cut through it with a knife.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Some have good reason to roll their eyes when they hear mild or stretchy claims of disadvantage....

(I was looking for an excuse to post this pic.)

You need to live in Los Angeles for a while