"American Ethnocentrism" is still a problem in the U.S

[Kilgore Trout]

You did not build that. LOL perhaps it is more fun being a flaming Liberal.

I'm neither conservative nor liberal, but would probably be defined as more liberal by most measures. However, I always fail to understand how the idea of personal responsibility is political at all.

 

[Father Heathen]

I didn't realize being white and privileged especially at the expense of others is something that is not to be criticized.

The issue is with the notion that someone is "guilty" by merely belonging to a group that's perceived to be "privileged"; that such an individual deserves to be insulted, or even assaulted, even if they personally never exploited or victimized another person. You know what that's called? Racism.

 

[Revoltingest]

Questions:
Asians don't seem to be pulled over for DWA (driving while Asian).
Is this "white privilege" or "Asian privilege"?
If it's the latter, then is suggests that "white privilege" is an inherently
racist term, since it singles out one race despite being more general.

Is female exemption from registering for the military draft "female privilege"
or "pedestal privilege"?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm neither conservative nor liberal, but would probably be defined as more liberal by most measures. However, I always fail to understand how the idea of personal responsibility is political at all.

Easy!
If life doesn't deliver what one wants, tis better to chalk it up to something beyond one's control & be perceived as a victim than to accept responsibility for inaction. If it isn't one's fault, then it must be someone else's, thus requiring support & compensation. Take charge personalities usually have a brain defect which makes them unable to see this.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Questions:
Asians don't seem to be pulled over for DWA (driving while Asian).
Is this "white privilege" or "Asian privilege"?
If it's the latter, then is suggests that "white privilege" is an inherently
racist term, since it singles out one race despite being more general.

Kind of like how "patriarchy" is used to describe societal norms is considered sexist, since it singles out a gender as being "bad?"

White privilege is not a racist term because it doesn't describe a biological inherently quality of that race. People who suggest white privilege exists are not saying white people are boastful and ignorant or anything derogatory because we are white. White privilege is a societal phenomenon where white people do not have the same pervasive worries as people of color because of cultural norms that creates an attitude of "inferiority" against another because of their ethnicity.

As to your example of identifying other phenomenons experienced by other races, Asian-Americans do not have to live with the same experiences as other disadvantaged groups (such as DWB....or having to read hostile racist tweets when an Indian-American woman was chosen as Miss America or a Hispanic American sang the National Anthem on television). But they do have their own hurdles they have had to climb over that whites as a whole have not had to endure.

Jeez, it's like some folks don't believe there is such a thing as "I had to work twice as hard as the kid next to me to achieve the same thing as he did just by showing up." If that's based on gender, orientation, ethnicity, religious status, or the color of one's skin....there's an example of privilege. All unearned advantages.

You vote libertarian. Democrats and Republicans have an advantage of attaining public office by showing up since the public discourse remains centered solely on those two major parties. Is it because libertarians aren't good enough? Or have libertarians or other independents haven't taken responsibility enough for their actions or work ethics? Or do the major parties have some instances of having an advantage based on societal views, that "this is just the way it is", regardless of how other parties are automatically marginalized.

Is female exemption from registering for the military draft "female privilege"
or "pedestal privilege"?

Females are not open to selected service and are not allowed into special forces in many places and are not allowed to serve in the front lines in infantry and are not considered much for higher ranking offices.

I call that an example overall of sexist policies set by the U.S. military. I have fought against sexism in the military after my sons were required to sign up for the draft suggesting that a) my sons are more expendable than my daughter and b) my daughter cannot be expected to fulfill job duties as much as my sons.

Which - to me - points to patriarchal attitudes of female submissive biology and male aggressiveness and "git r dun" mentality assumed only possessed by males.

Think about it - how many times do folks diss women in such positions because they say it will "feminize" the military and make it.....what?.....weak? I wouldn't call that female privilege. I say that's outright sexism against everybody, stemming from patriarchy that screws all women from autonomy and most men from autonomy too. Only a few select males have decision making power for everybody and assigns gender norms and roles to serve them and maintain the hierarchy.

So there.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Easy!
If life doesn't deliver what one wants, tis better to chalk it up to something beyond one's control & be perceived as a victim than to accept responsibility for inaction. If it isn't one's fault, then it must be someone else's, thus requiring support & compensation. Take charge personalities usually have a brain defect which makes them unable to see this.

Take charge personalities also recognize what resources are readily available to them. If opportunities are presented as apples on a tree, and a giraffe, a monkey, and a fish are all told they need to get an apple from that tree in order to be considered successful, then we can see who has the most advantages and who has the least.

Or if that same set was directed to go to the bottom of the ocean and find a sunken ship.

Or if that same set was directed to climb a ladder.

In this society, there are circumstances that allow certain groups of people advantages simply for who they are. It's not their fault they are disadvantaged. And it's not the privileged fault because they have advantages. But it's ignorant to suggest that people are not successful just because they're not doing what others are doing because they love to play the victim or are lazy. That's ridiculous.

 

[Repox]

American Ethnocentrism is not "still" a problem. It has been a growing and disturbing trend since the 1980s at least.

Of course, it also has a lot of internal resistance, although the situation is currently rather sad.

Do you live in America, or do you just believe stereotypes about Americans?

 

[Revoltingest]

Kind of like how "patriarchy" is used to describe societal norms is considered sexist, since it singles out a gender as being "bad?"

Not the same. The term "patriarchy" is about men ruling, & doesn't include other genders. "White privilege" appears to include non-whites.

White privilege is not a racist term because it doesn't describe a biological inherently quality of that race.

This is exactly why it is racist, ie, it singles out one of many applicable for scorn.
On the racial offense scale, it ranks up (down?) there with call an Asian "oriental".

People who suggest white privilege exists are not saying white people are boastful and ignorant or anything derogatory because we are white. White privilege is a societal phenomenon where white people do not have the same pervasive worries as people of color because of cultural norms that creates an attitude of "inferiority" against another because of their ethnicity.

One can argue that "welfare queen" is race neutral, but we so often hear different, don't we...
Phrases might be created with one thing in mind, but general inference will take on a life of its own.

As to your example of identifying other phenomenons experienced by other races, Asian-Americans do not have to live with the same experiences as other disadvantaged groups (such as DWB....or having to read hostile racist tweets when an Indian-American woman was chosen as Miss America or a Hispanic American sang the National Anthem on television). But they do have their own hurdles they have had to climb over that whites as a whole have not had to endure.

Why is it solely about white folk? Everyone else has their difficulties to endure & overcome, no matter what advantages they might have (smarts, wealth, good looks, expectations of excellence). And yet, poor white folks have a leg up on Obama, Oprah, etc?

Jeez, it's like some folks don't believe there is such a thing as "I had to work twice as hard as the kid next to me to achieve the same thing as he did just by showing up." If that's based on gender, orientation, ethnicity, religious status, or the color of one's skin....there's an example of privilege. All unearned advantages.

I've heard the "I had to work twice as hard" from those who don't work as hard.

You vote libertarian. Democrats and Republicans have an advantage of attaining public office by showing up since the public discourse remains centered solely on those two major parties. Is it because libertarians aren't good enough? Or have libertarians or other independents haven't taken responsibility enough for their actions or work ethics? Or do the major parties have some instances of having an advantage based on societal views, that "this is just the way it is", regardless of how other parties are automatically marginalized.

If you're arguing that some groups have an advantage, then there's no need to argue that with me.

Females are not open to selected service and are not allowed into special forces in many places and are not allowed to serve in the front lines in infantry and are not considered much for higher ranking offices.

To not be subject to the draft is an advantage, rather than a disadvantage. But as to the others, where there is no good reason to exclude females, you're not convincing me of anything I don't already believe.

I call that an example overall of sexist policies set by the U.S. military. I have fought against sexism in the military after my sons were required to sign up for the draft suggesting that a) my sons are more expendable than my daughter and b) my daughter cannot be expected to fulfill job duties as much as my sons.

Again, do you expect that we disagree?

Which - to me - points to patriarchal attitudes of female submissive biology and male aggressiveness and "git r dun" mentality assumed only possessed by males.

Think about it - how many times do folks diss women in such positions because they say it will "feminize" the military and make it.....what?.....weak? I wouldn't call that female privilege. I say that's outright sexism against everybody, stemming from patriarchy that screws all women from autonomy and most men from autonomy too. Only a few select males have decision making power for everybody and assigns gender norms and roles to serve them and maintain the hierarchy.
So there.

Perhaps "white privilege" should be changed to "white heterosexual unaware male privilege" (WHUMP), eh?
Well, this WHUMP sees too much obsession with victimhood & blamery. Yes, I said it..."blamery".

 

[Sunstone]

I am convinced the notion that most or all of the people who are not conventionally successful in our society are simply lazy or unmotivated could only have originated in the dysfunctional frontal lobe of fact-challenged moron. But I know I really shouldn't drag Rush Limbaugh into the conversation.

 

[Apex]

Kind of like how "patriarchy" is used to describe societal norms is considered sexist, since it singles out a gender as being "bad?"

White privilege is not a racist term because it doesn't describe a biological inherently quality of that race. People who suggest white privilege exists are not saying white people are boastful and ignorant or anything derogatory because we are white. White privilege is a societal phenomenon where white people do not have the same pervasive worries as people of color because of cultural norms that creates an attitude of "inferiority" against another because of their ethnicity.

As to your example of identifying other phenomenons experienced by other races, Asian-Americans do not have to live with the same experiences as other disadvantaged groups (such as DWB....or having to read hostile racist tweets when an Indian-American woman was chosen as Miss America or a Hispanic American sang the National Anthem on television). But they do have their own hurdles they have had to climb over that whites as a whole have not had to endure.

Jeez, it's like some folks don't believe there is such a thing as "I had to work twice as hard as the kid next to me to achieve the same thing as he did just by showing up." If that's based on gender, orientation, ethnicity, religious status, or the color of one's skin....there's an example of privilege. All unearned advantages.

You vote libertarian. Democrats and Republicans have an advantage of attaining public office by showing up since the public discourse remains centered solely on those two major parties. Is it because libertarians aren't good enough? Or have libertarians or other independents haven't taken responsibility enough for their actions or work ethics? Or do the major parties have some instances of having an advantage based on societal views, that "this is just the way it is", regardless of how other parties are automatically marginalized.



Females are not open to selected service and are not allowed into special forces in many places and are not allowed to serve in the front lines in infantry and are not considered much for higher ranking offices.

I call that an example overall of sexist policies set by the U.S. military. I have fought against sexism in the military after my sons were required to sign up for the draft suggesting that a) my sons are more expendable than my daughter and b) my daughter cannot be expected to fulfill job duties as much as my sons.

Which - to me - points to patriarchal attitudes of female submissive biology and male aggressiveness and "git r dun" mentality assumed only possessed by males.

Think about it - how many times do folks diss women in such positions because they say it will "feminize" the military and make it.....what?.....weak? I wouldn't call that female privilege. I say that's outright sexism against everybody, stemming from patriarchy that screws all women from autonomy and most men from autonomy too. Only a few select males have decision making power for everybody and assigns gender norms and roles to serve them and maintain the hierarchy.

So there.

Feel better?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Not the same. The term "patriarchy" is about men ruling, & doesn't include other genders. "White privilege" appears to include non-whites.

This is exactly why it is racist, ie, it singles out one of many applicable for scorn.
On the racial offense scale, it ranks up (down?) there with call an Asian "oriental".

Not. Even. Close.

I'm white. I'm not at all offended by the phrase. People who have brought it up in conversation don't look at me with scorn. My feminist stances don't look at you or other males with scorn. When I say this culture is hetero-normative, I don't look at straights with scorn.

All I fight for is to be heard and to fight for equality. It's a shame that privileged folks might see that as a personal attack, because it isn't.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Feel better?

If you thought that was an emotional rant, you don't know me very well.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not.

Yes.

I'm white. I'm not at all offended by the phrase.

You don't represent all white folk though.

People who have brought it up in conversation don't look at me with scorn. My feminist stances don't look at you or other males with scorn. When I say this culture is hetero-normative, I don't look at straights with scorn.

Tis more about how the term is employed.

All I fight for is to be heard and to fight for equality. It's a shame that privileged folks might see that as a personal attack, because it isn't.

You don't seem hostile to me. But I do sense victimhood pandering.
I suggest the message needs a different delivery.

Suppose I noticed a pervasive problem of slackerhood among black folk.
How receptive to this message would the be if I continually talked about "black irresponsibility"?

 

[Apex]

Not. Even. Close.

I'm white. I'm not at all offended by the phrase. People who have brought it up in conversation don't look at me with scorn. My feminist stances don't look at you or other males with scorn. When I say this culture is hetero-normative, I don't look at straights with scorn.

Offense has nothing to do with it.

All I fight for is to be heard and to fight for equality.

That is not in question.

It's a shame that privileged folks might see that as a personal attack, because it isn't.

This is what I am talking about here. The manner in which you are phrasing this situation by labeling others as "privileged" only serves to worsen the situation. It does nothing to help it. It places the blame at the feet of the "privileged". Yet the true blame lies with society, not necessarily only with those who are "privileged". That is why I disagree with you on this topic. As I see you only making it worse.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yes.


You don't represent all white folk though.

Neither do you.

Tis more about how the term is employed.

You don't seem hostile to me. But I do sense victimhood pandering.
I suggest the message needs a different delivery.

I'll bring cat toys next time.

 

[Revoltingest]

Neither do you.

Ah, but I don't trumpet my race as conferring authority.

I'll bring cat toys next time.

Uh oh....

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Offense has nothing to do with it.


That is not in question.


This is what I am talking about here. The manner in which you are phrasing this situation by labeling others as "privileged" only serves to worsen the situation. It does nothing to help it. It places the blame at the feet of the "privileged". Yet the true blame lies with society, not necessarily only with those who are "privileged". That is why I disagree with you on this topic. As I see you only making it worse.

LOL I place myself among the privileged. I've stated that repeatedly. It's not white guilt to recognize that I don't have to worry about being followed around in a shopping mall or a cop while I'm driving. It's a recognition of having that societal advantage. I don't feel guilty for being in that position. You don't have to feel guilty because you're not judged for your appearance in the same way that women are judged. And you don't have to feel guilty for being straight and having the freedom to marry whomever you wish.

So....what exactly am I "making worse?"

 

[Apex]

LOL I place myself among the privileged. I've stated that repeatedly. It's not white guilt to recognize that I don't have to worry about being followed around in a shopping mall or a cop while I'm driving. It's a recognition of having that societal advantage. I don't feel guilty for being in that position. You don't have to feel guilty because you're not judged for your appearance in the same way that women are judged. And you don't have to feel guilty for being straight and having the freedom to marry whomever you wish.

So....what exactly am I "making worse?"

I feel like you didn't even bother reading my post except maybe the very last sentence.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I am convinced the notion that most or all of the people who are not conventionally successful in our society are simply lazy or unmotivated could only have originated in the dysfunctional frontal lobe of fact-challenged moron. But I know I really shouldn't drag Rush Limbaugh into the conversation.

Hey, don't be mean to him. He's just a talking head and entertainment. Who is considered the most influential political figure of the Christian Right.

Like when he said Sandra Fluke was a **** for her speaking up about access to contraception, and guys like Boehner said that was "inappropriate." George Will stated that Pubs are "afraid" of Limbaugh...."using a salad fork for your entree is inappropriate. Not this." (paraphrased by George Will)

But no big deal, right? Any woman bringing this up as a point to consider about sexism in media and women's reproductive rights is playing the victim.[/sarcasm]

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I feel like you didn't even bother reading my post except maybe the very last sentence.

I read it as your arguing that my very use of the word "privilege" is perceived as an attack. And that my continued use of it is "making it worse."

I'm asking what that "it" is that I'm making worse.