"American Ethnocentrism" is still a problem in the U.S

[MysticSang'ha]

The terms "privilege", "discrimination", "advantage" & "disadvantage" all refer to the same thing, but are different ways of describing it.
Note also that privilege, if you will, is not limited to white males:
- Black folk got into med school a lot easier than whites (when I was in school). They also got more financial aid.
- Women get better treatment by the friend of the court.
- Openly Xian black politicians will fare better in politics than atheistic white guys.
- Amerindians get free tuition at MI universities.
- Black folk don't knocked out in the polar bear game.
- Teenagers are looked upon with suspicion more so than oldsters.
- Hispanics are a noble groundskeeping minority. If one strays & behaves badly, then he becomes a "white Hispanic".
Unfairness in life is a many faceted thing.

Did you know that men also get breast cancer?
(Far more so than women getting prostate cancer.)

You know, you're preaching to the choir here, Rev. I suggest these things exist, and I'm for equal rights and protections for all. What I argue against, however, is when white straight guys suddenly become defensive when the topic of "white privilege" or "male privilege" is offered in a conversation. And then debating from the position that "feminism" is "man-hating" and "sexist."

I've read on this forum that racism doesn't exist. Numerous times. But at the same time "Black History Month" is racist against white people. I find that hilarious.

So I offer this, name one pervasive problem that whites have in this country that favors people of color, and the argument is presented that whites just aren't taking responsibility for their own actions.

Or that if women are automatically given custody of children after divorce, that y'all give the same canned response that it's only because men aren't taking responsibility for their own behavior, and that custody is always available if they just want to get it, so they should stop *****ing and whining and just go out and get it.

BTW, my feminist stance on custody is that fathers SHOULD be more involved in kids lives.....before AND after divorce.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think a person would have to be blind not to see DWB or stop and frisk as racial profiling. Perhaps this practice might have something to do with the black prision population.

Of course I believe the lack of outrage of black on black crime might have something to do with this as well. You just don't see Jesse Jackson or Albert Sharpton railing against anything but people other than his own race.

From my observations, black communities contain their awareness and efforts within their own neighborhoods. I've participated in events where friends and neighbors have marched and spoken out at their churches against neighborhood violence, gangs, and drugs. From what I've seen, they do a lot and discuss it a lot, but they would rather it not become a national issue, and the outrage is certainly present at these rallies and speeches.

 

[Revoltingest]

You know, you're preaching to the choir here, Rev.

Few can spend more contrary words agreeing than you & I, eh.

I suggest these things exist, and I'm for equal rights and protections for all. What I argue against, however, is when white straight guys suddenly become defensive when the topic of "white privilege" or "male privilege" is offered in a conversation. And then debating from the position that "feminism" is "man-hating" and "sexist."

You ought to forgive us for being defensive, since we're so often on it...you know...being the source of all societal woe, eg, sexism, racism, homophobia.

I've read on this forum that racism doesn't exist. Numerous times. But at the same time "Black History Month" is racist against white people. I find that hilarious.

I've read that even race doesn't exist, but that this doesn't let racists off the hook.

So I offer this, name one pervasive problem that whites have in this country that favors people of color....

- Preferential treatment in college admissions.
- Being able to freely discuss race issues without being dismissed as racist or privileged.
- Preferential treatment in winning government contracts.

....and the argument is presented that whites just aren't taking responsibility for their own actions.

Huh?

Or that if women are automatically given custody of children after divorce, that y'all give the same canned response that it's only because men aren't taking responsibility for their own behavior, and that custody is always available if they just want to get it, so they should stop *****ing and whining and just go out and get it.

My responses are "canned"?

BTW, my feminist stance on custody is that fathers SHOULD be more involved in kids lives.....before AND after divorce.

And mothers should be more involved too.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yeah, these are all good points Rev, but you have to remember this is not about being fair..... It is about getting even.

The same thing as our income tax giving head of households an income earned credit were they recieve more money than they pay in.......Income redistubution.

When it is all said and done, many white guys kick butt with one hand tied behind our backs.

There is White Priviledge, I get invited to GOP conventions and get to bum a ride on Gulfsteams. That is because I am an outspoken Conservative and a "Good Ol Boy".

Where I get upset is, the sterotype of being a racist.

We are not all born equal, I did not grow up seven foot tall and a NBA draft pick either.

Hey, me neither! What's up with that?

 

[Revoltingest]

Hey, me neither! What's up with that?

Hmmm...at your height, you have a "privilege" in gymnastics.
But I recognize my privilege in being able to reach the peppercorns in the upper cupboard.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Few can spend more contrary words agreeing than you & I, eh.

You ought to forgive us for being defensive, since we're so often on it...you know...being the source of all societal woe, eg, sexism, racism, homophobia.

I'm white too, remember. And I see bi-phobia from gays and lesbians. Queers aren't perfect (and neither are us weirdo bisexuals, just to be clear).

When I bring up sexism and racism and homophobia, I am adamant about making sure it isn't people I'm against. It's the system. I'm not looking to fight people, but ideas. So white straight men aren't the source of all societal woes....nope, nada, never....y'all just I think are not aware of privileges y'all have.

I keep saying it's not an indictment, but somehow it's taken personally. As if I'm saying white folks are the bad guys. We're not.

I've read that even race doesn't exist, but that this doesn't let racists off the hook.

- Preferential treatment in college admissions.
- Being able to freely discuss race issues without being dismissed as racist or privileged.
- Preferential treatment in winning government contracts.

Have y'all said to each other that you're just not taking enough responsibility? Or that some of the rules in society have given all of you an unfair disadvantage? I truly don't know.

Huh?

My responses are "canned"?

And mothers should be more involved too.

I say there is a systemic problem in justice, determining constitutionality of the rights of mothers and rights of fathers and rights of children. I just find it interesting that where injustice is made against minorities, women, and queers, that it's all about personal responsibility. But heaven forbid if the topic of Affirmative Action comes up and the next thing you know the charge of reverse racism is brought up repeatedly and how society is so unfair to white guys.

By the same folks who contend that society really isn't unfair to women or minorities. Those claims are....just....you know.....mild.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Hmmm...at your height, you have a "privilege" in gymnastics.
But I recognize my privilege in being able to reach the peppercorns in the upper cupboard.

People also tease me if I threaten to beat them up...they'll say "What, are you going to bite my kneecaps off?"

And I always say, "Nope, I'm that much closer to a direct punch to the genitals."

Short people for the win!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Being hit by a meteor doesn't make all the people not being hit by a meteor "privileged."

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Being hit by a meteor doesn't make all the people not being hit by a meteor "privileged."

Not once, of course. But if you're getting hit by a meteor regularly, and people of the same religion, ethnicity, age, or orientation are all getting hit by meteors regularly, then you can say that those who aren't getting hit by meteors are certainly at an advantage. Statistically, they don't have to keep looking up in the sky to see if something is coming their way.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Not once, of course. But if you're getting hit by a meteor regularly, and people of the same religion, ethnicity, age, or orientation are all getting hit by meteors regularly, then you can say that those who aren't getting hit by meteors are certainly at an advantage. Statistically, they don't have to keep looking up in the sky to see if something is coming their way.

Not having a particular disadvantage isn't the same thing as having a privilege. Even if we do define it this way, then every individual would have a unique set of thousands of "privileges" and disadvantges. It's hardly a useful categorization - particularly in the case of generalizations, such as "black and white" in the United States, where meaningful privilege is more usefully defined by attributes such as income, education, net worth, career, or attractiveness.

 

[Revoltingest]

When I bring up sexism and racism and homophobia, I am adamant about making sure it isn't people I'm against. It's the system. I'm not looking to fight people, but ideas. So white straight men aren't the source of all societal woes....nope, nada, never....y'all just I think are not aware of privileges y'all have.

Perhaps tis not so much that we're unaware of privilege, but instead that we see various disadvantages visited upon various groups & individuals. I think my perspective is broader than the narrow & divisive lens of "white privilege".

I keep saying it's not an indictment, but somehow it's taken personally. As if I'm saying white folks are the bad guys. We're not.

Of course, you're one of the nicer & broader minded of the "white privilege" carpers.

Have y'all said to each other that you're just not taking enough responsibility? Or that some of the rules in society have given all of you an unfair disadvantage? I truly don't know.

I can't account for the many things said by others here.

I say there is a systemic problem in justice, determining constitutionality of the rights of mothers and rights of fathers and rights of children. I just find it interesting that where injustice is made against minorities, women, and queers, that it's all about personal responsibility. But heaven forbid if the topic of Affirmative Action comes up and the next thing you know the charge of reverse racism is brought up repeatedly and how society is so unfair to white guys.

There's that passive voice again.
I cannot address a diffuse variety of all possible things said in public discourse.

By the same folks who contend that society really isn't unfair to women or minorities. Those claims are....just....you know.....mild.

Does the "same folks" refer to me or to.....hmmm...just who are the "same folks",
& are they exactly the same individuals each time these different things are said?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Not having a particular disadvantage isn't the same thing as having a privilege. Even if we do define it this way, then every individual would have a unique set of thousands of "privileges" and disadvantges. It's hardly a useful categorization - particularly in the case of generalizations, such as "black and white" in the United States, where meaningful privilege is more usefully defined by attributes such as income, education, net worth, career, or attractiveness.

I think we keep missing each in our definitions and qualifiers. What is an example of privilege to you?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think we keep missing each in our definitions and qualifiers. What is an example of privilege to you?

A particular or special right or opportunity afforded a person or a group, which is usually the result of meeting a particular condition. Some examples would include:

- A student being granted the privilege of meeting the President because of writing a contest-winning essay.
- Being able to attend an elite school/university because your parents were alumni and are wealthy.
- Being invited to attend a celebrity gala because you're friends with one of the organizers.
- A teenager being allowed to stay out later than their normal curfew because they improved all their grades.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

A particular or special right or opportunity afforded a person or a group, which is usually the result of meeting a particular condition. Some examples would include:

- A student being granted the privilege of meeting the President because of writing a contest-winning essay.
- Being able to attend an elite school/university because your parents were alumni and are wealthy.
- Being invited to attend a celebrity gala because you're friends with one of the organizers.
- A teenager being allowed to stay out later than their normal curfew because they improved all their grades.

That's probably the root behind our disagreement. Each of these examples allows those who at a current disadvantage a modicum of control over their circumstances to better their situation and attain these exact same privileges.

Even though I see differently when it comes to the definition of privilege, I see why you feel the way you do. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Even though I see differently when it comes to the definition of privilege, I see why you feel the way you do. Thanks for clarifying.

No problem.

For clarification, how would you define the examples I provided, if not as privileges?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No problem.

For clarification, how would you define the examples I provided, if not as privileges?

I personally would define them as opportunities.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I personally would define them as opportunities.

Interesting, okay.

 

[Reverend Rick]

in the United States, where meaningful privilege is more usefully defined by attributes such as income, education, net worth, career, or attractiveness.

You described me to a T, I should be the poster boy of privilege especially being shamefully attractive.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You described me to a T, I should be the poster boy of privilege especially being shamefully attractive.

Pfft, well this obviously doesn't apply to white males, as even poor, uneducated, unemployed, ugly white males have everything simply handed to them on a silver platter. I feel so lucky that I haven't had to work my butt off to get everything I have.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I feel so lucky that I haven't had to work my butt off to get everything I have.

You did not build that. LOL perhaps it is more fun being a flaming Liberal.