American intervention in Korea

[suncowiam]

Because the South Korean government was killing tens of thousands of communists...

but sure, that's hardly bloody.

Again, I'll ask you to consider how both governments (North and South) have evolved based on the influence of democracy and communism. And you do know that the South was not a Democratic state yet.

So yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Hindsight is 20/20.

If US was successful in its goal, then I bet lots of North Koreans would be very grateful today.

As has been pointed out, it wasn't "the US'" goal, it was a UN coalition.

 

[suncowiam]

As has been pointed out, it wasn't "the US'" goal, it was a UN coalition.

That's really besides the point, but OK. I'm not idolizing US here.

The main point would be that if anyone succeeded to overthrow the communists to set in democracy, then many North Koreans would be very happy today.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The title reads American intervention in Korea, but the OP is phrased to just include the Korean War.

Unfortunately, that is not all the American government and military can take credit for in Korea.

American military efforts lead to the dissolution of the People's Republic of Korea which existed before South and North Korea.

The US military government dealt forcefully with the PRK because of a suspected communist character, which lead to the Jeju uprising where 14,000 to 30,000 died from fighting and 40,000 left for Japan.

I don't think you have your history correct. A quick study indicates that after WWII Korea was already separated at the 38th parallel between Russian and U.S. control. The U.S. tried to have a general election for the country as a whole. The Russians backed out. This is from an article on the Jeju Uprising, which the South Korean government eventually did acknowledge as a bad action on their part, though of course as usual in cases like this there were problems on both sides:

Jeju uprising - Wikipedia
Do you have any fairly reliable sources that support your claims?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm going to have to go chase down the book where I found my information. Perhaps I got a detail or two wrong.

However, if you accept wikipedia as a source, here you go:
People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

Did you read that article? It did not support your claim either.

ETA: I have found Wikipedia to be a fairly reliable source but I don't take it as an ultimate source of truth. It is a good starting point and is as accurate as any other encyclopedia out there. Plus if one wants to do further research the articles are very often supported by links to valid sources.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry if my words read like I was implying something passive aggressively, I did not intend it to be.

No problem. I am not a blind patriot. We screwed up quite badly in Korea in that if we had merely kicked out the North Koreans from the South, which was done amazingly quickly with very few casualties, the conflict would have been over quickly. Except for at least a temporary need of personnel at the border. It was rather ignorant to assume that China would do nothing. And when they entered the fray they guaranteed a long and painful campaign where we ended up back at the original border. A largely wasteful and avoidable conflict.

 

[LionLooking]

The US could've nuked anyone without repercussions.

There would certainly have been repercussions. The US's Allies (the other 14 nations that made up the coalition) would probably have had something to say.
If the US has followed such an aggressive policy, it would have found itself a pariah on the international stage.
Not to mention the repercussions caused by killing so many people.

 

[Grandliseur]

U

I think the USSR would have retaliated.

That's right, a very different wordl. A nuclear waste ground in fact.

Up until quite a few years after WWII, neither USSR, nor China had any atomic weapons. I have no idea what it would have done to the world.

As to atomic warfare, everyone is preparing now, especially Russia and China. NK is just the fuse box who will set off this gigantic WWIII atomic exchange perhaps. Both Russia and China have become very aggressive toward the west. War is coming. It is unavoidable, and soon.

All things seem to be pointing to a war within this decade, imo. Of course, I have been wrong about much, so let's hope I die without glowing in the dark.

 

[Flankerl]

There would certainly have been repercussions. The US's Allies (the other 14 nations that made up the coalition) would probably have had something to say.
If the US has followed such an aggressive policy, it would have found itself a pariah on the international stage.
Not to mention the repercussions caused by killing so many people.

Yeah like all those repercussions after Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Horrible repercussions indeed.

It's rather hard to tell the people you're nuking that you're doing it for freedom, after all.

And? So what? That's the same for all strategic bombardments.

The Koreans wouldn't have been "nuked" anyway.

 

[LionLooking]

Yeah like all those repercussions after Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Horrible repercussions indeed.

Different situation, and the US had backing from its allies on the Manhattan Project. It was a joint UK/Canada/Australia/US operation (though personally I'm ashamed of my country's involvement).

And? So what?

So, millions would have died, ecosystems would have been destroyed, lands would have been contaminated.
Only a mad man would use nuclear weapons - except in the most dire of situations indeed.

 

[Flankerl]

So, millions would have died, ecosystems would have been destroyed, lands would have been contaminated.

Which is why you can't travel to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Oh wait you can. And people live there.
1.196.274 in Hiroshima and 425.723 in Nagasaki.
They must be all Ghouls.

Only a mad man would use nuclear weapons - except in the most dire of situations indeed.

You mean like 700.000 Chinese soldiers marching into Korea?

 

[LionLooking]

Which is why you can't travel to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Oh wait you can. And people live there.
1.196.274 in Hiroshima and 425.723 in Nagasaki.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people died in those attacks.
Babies in wombs were contaminated with radiation.
And these were the earliest forms of nuclear bombs. Since then, their 'strength has grown'.

They must be all Ghouls.

I think the only ghouls around are those that glorify war and death.

You mean like 700.000 Chinese soldiers marching into Korea?

Or 900,000 Allied soldiers marching into Korea?
No, neither of these scenarios warrants mass destruction.

 

[Flankerl]

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people died in those attacks.
Babies in wombs were contaminated with radiation.
And these were the earliest forms of nuclear bombs. Since then, their 'strength has grown'.

So you agree that quite a lot of people live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Thanks.

I think the only ghouls around are those that glorify war and death.

Oh someone is mad.

Or 900,000 Allied soldiers marching into Korea?
No, neither of these scenarios warrants mass destruction.

North Korea invaded the South. That is a fact.
In response to this the United Nations formed a coalition to fight against this act of war. This was to this day the only time the United Nations actually had some balls.

When the war was almost won the Chinese Army infiltrated North Korea unnoticed and then joined the war on the side of the North Korean Communists.

MacArthur had the idea to use nuclear weapons on the Chinese to get them to reconsider their actions.
Well that didn't happen.
And after the war all people who weren't in line with the new regime "vanished".

Are we seriously to believe that all the Monks became valiant communists and that they aren't all buried in forests?

 

[LionLooking]

So you agree that quite a lot of people live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Thanks.

You are welcome.
Do you agree that hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were killed? And that unborn, child, and adult alike were contaminated with radiation?

Oh someone is mad.

Unfortunately, a significant minority of people are. Thankfully, world leaders with fingers on nuclear buttons have not shown the same lack of sense - yet.

North Korea invaded the South. That is a fact.

No one has disputed that.

When the war was almost won the Chinese Army infiltrated North Korea unnoticed and then joined the war on the side of the North Korean Communists.

It's all down to POV.
To a North Korean, the UN force was invasive, just as, to you, the Chinese one was.
I find it pays to see the opinion of all sides, even if you don't agree with them.
Imagine your country (don't know where you are from - from your attitude, I guess it's the US?) had become divided after a foreign invasion (exactly how N and S Korea were formed).
You might want to see it reunited and so fight for that outcome (think of Ireland here if it help - although the situation is quite a bit different. Many Americans support Irish unity don't they?)

MacArthur had the idea to use nuclear weapons on the Chinese to get them to reconsider their actions.

Thank goodness he saw sense - or was made to back down.

Well that didn't happen.

Hooray!!!!!

And after the war all people who weren't in line with the new regime "vanished".

So, nuclear bombs would have saved them? I think not.

 

[Flankerl]

You are welcome.
Do you agree that hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were killed? And that unborn, child, and adult alike were contaminated with radiation?

The conquest of Japans southern islands had shown how crazy they were. Entire villages jumped off the cliffs because of all the propaganda. Women with their newborns blew themselves up. Civilians attacking the soldiers with bamboo spears.

And that was just Okinawa. A small island.
Kyushu alone would've probably dwarfed the casualties among the civilian population in comparison to the use of two nuclear bombs.

It's all down to POV.
To a North Korean, the UN force was invasive, just as, to you, the Chinese one was.
I find it pays to see the opinion of all sides, even if you don't agree with them.
Imagine your country (don't know where you are from - from your attitude, I guess it's the US?) had become divided after a foreign invasion (exactly how N and S Korea were formed).
You might want to see it reunited and so fight for that outcome (think of Ireland here if it help - although the situation is quite a bit different. Many Americans support Irish unity don't they?)

Which is why the North Koreans celebrated when the UN captured Pyongyang.

And no I am not from the US.

I actually live in a country that was divided. Though I don't have the citizenship of that country.


So you are saying the North should've won. That would've meant genocide. You know that, right?

So, nuclear bombs would have saved them? I think not.

Then you think wrong. The bombs wouldn't have been used against Koreans in the first place.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

eyeroll

 

[Spiderman]

eyeroll

I cherish your two cents...best contribution yet.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I cherish your two cents...best contribution yet.

I believe it's appropriate. The alternative is trying to engage an ideologue in an historical discussion.

You know the metaphor about playing chess with pigeons? Better just to roll my eyes and let my blood pressure stay where it is.

 

[LionLooking]

So you are saying the North should've won.

No. I am trying to get you too see other pints of view so that you have more understanding.

That would've meant genocide. You know that, right?

Quite possibly. Although, there was genocide committed by the South Koreans too - you know that, right?

Then you think wrong.

You mean, I don't agree with you

The bombs wouldn't have been used against Koreans in the first place.

No, innocent Chinese civilians instead. So, all of the Allies would have cut ties with the US (Japan's bombing had support from the UK and other Allies, China's did not). The USSR would have probably bombed South Korea and WWIII would have broken out causing million upon millions of deaths.

 

[Flankerl]

The USSR would have probably bombed South Korea

Too bad that the USSR had no capabilities to do so.

That's the funny thing about the red scare in the 50s.