An alternative to anti-Mormon protests

[Naturalist_Atheist]

Don't protest the Mormon churches. Call for taxation of their institutions and protest in african american communities.

 

[Green Gaia]

Don't protest the Mormon churches. Call for taxation of their institutions and protest in african american communities.

No. More divisiveness is not what we need. We SHOULD be protesting/rallying at city halls and state and federal governments. That is who is denying us our rights. It should have never been allowed to be voted on in the first place.

 

[UnityNow101]

We should not be demonizing any group of individuals, whether that be the Mormon Church and their believers, or the African-American community, as it is counter-productive. Not only that, but I can assure you that both of these communities are doing what they believe to be the right thing, whether we agree or disagree with the conclusions which they have come to regarding homosexual marriage. I come from a very religious family and they are against gay marriage, not out of malice of heart, but of devotion to the instructions of their God. We must petition to the State, as they are the ones which are denying citizens of the United States their right to marriage. The religious institutions and African-American communities cannot and should not be able to take away the rights of any other. Even though they feel that they are themselves on the right side of the issue, it is the State which must step in and either give or take that right away..So, as Gaia has suggested, let us not create a divisive attitude towards any community, as that is a bit hypocritical to our cause of acceptance of all, whether they happen to agree or disagree. In the words of Martin Luther King, "We shall overcome someday." In the meantime, keep the faith that at the end of the day, the rights of all will be upheld...

 

[Pah]

No. More divisiveness is not what we need. We SHOULD be protesting/rallying at city halls and state and federal governments. That is who is denying us our rights. It should have never been allowed to be voted on in the first place.

LDS takes a share of the blame. It was the huge amount of money they invested in successfully passing Prop 8.

It was divisiveness in the beginning that brought us to to todays fight for rights. Sadly I don't remember the name of the nightclub police raided time and time again. That brought the club patrons and performers into the streets. Reasoning failed then and it's failing now.

Bob

 

[Apex]

LDS takes a share of the blame. It was the huge amount of money they invested in successfully passing Prop 8.

Bob

But what do protests at our Temples and places of worship accomplish except to further polarize the situation? Protests at locations of government can actually accomplish something.

 

[Autodidact]

Atoning for Sins. As Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, President Raymond L Johnson does also decree that the following acts shall be cleansed only by Blood Atonement:​

Murder; Adultery; Theft of any Food, Implement or Device used in the Growing or Harvesting of Food, Necessary to the Feeding of any Citizen's Family or those in the Collective; The manufacture, sale, exchange, barter, conveyance, or consumption of distilled spirits or drugs in any form, except as prescribed by physician; Theft of Transportation; Blasphemous Utterances against God or Jesus Christ.​

Atonement shall be by a Quorum of Seven Danites who shall be called forth from the Church. They shall be responsible for fulfilling His word by drawing a knife across the throat of the Sinful from ear to ear, allowing the smoke thereof to ascend to God.​

from here.

 

[silvermoon383]

What the hell is that? Looks like a work of fiction to me.

 

[Green Gaia]

LDS takes a share of the blame. It was the huge amount of money they invested in successfully passing Prop 8.

It was divisiveness in the beginning that brought us to to todays fight for rights. Sadly I don't remember the name of the nightclub police raided time and time again. That brought the club patrons and performers into the streets. Reasoning failed then and it's failing now.

Bob

I don't disagree with that. But Mormons can't give us legal rights. We need to be knocking on the doors, calling and emailing the people who can. This should have never been voted on and we must demand that our representatives fix the mistake they made.

btw, Stonewall

 

[lilithu]

Direct personal contact between gay people and Mormons would be more helpful.

And believe it or not, there are gay Mormons. :yes:

 

[doppelganger]

And believe it or not, there are gay Mormons. :yes:

This is a question for anyone who knows but my understanding is that engaging in homosexual sex without regarding it as a sin that needs repentance would be grounds for excommunication by the LDS church. Am I mistaken? Who determines questions like this? Is it left to the individual wards to handle in a sort of "don't ask, don't tell" kind of system?

 

[lilithu]

Don't protest the Mormon churches. Call for taxation of their institutions and protest in african american communities.

Sorry, but that's inane on both counts.

1. The Mormon church as a legal right to take a stance on political issues, just like any other religious organization. That right is protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. If you think that all religious institutions should be taxed, fine (good luck on that), but to target the Mormon church in particular for taxation is bigoted.

2. WHY would we be protesting African American communities??! Think of what the percentage of African Americans are in the state of California. Even if every single African American voted yes on 8, which is NOT the case, it still would not have passed unless even more whites voted yes as well. Perhaps we should be protesting whites? :areyoucra Gah!!

The religious institutions and African-American communities cannot and should not be able to take away the rights of any other.

Please see above.

 

[lilithu]

LDS takes a share of the blame. It was the huge amount of money they invested in successfully passing Prop 8.

According to some onine research that 9/10th Penguin did, "Focus on the Family" donated over 100 times more money than the LDS church did. The LDS church may take a share of the blame, but the amount of anger directed at them is disproportional to that share.

 

[doppelganger]

According to some onine research that 9/10th Penguin did, "Focus on the Family" donated over 100 times more money than the LDS church did. The LDS church may take a share of the blame, but the amount of anger directed at them is disproportional to that share.

I think that might be because everyone expects it from Dobson and the rest of the Hitler Youth at FOF. It's so much more disappointing coming from LDS because I mistakenly took their church as being above this sort of thing. Their own history and mistreatment in this country (by people like Dobson, ironically), suggests that they should know better.

But you're correct, Evangelical extremists were the main force behind this.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

According to some onine research that 9/10th Penguin did, "Focus on the Family" donated over 100 times more money than the LDS church did. The LDS church may take a share of the blame, but the amount of anger directed at them is disproportional to that share.

Could you please point me in the direction of Penguin's research? Thanks.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Could you please point me in the direction of Penguin's research? Thanks.

It's here, FWIW:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-protest-worship-services-16.html#post1334792

It wasn't rigorous enough for me to call it "research", though. More judicious Googling.

Apparently, the LDS Church directly contributed a very small amount of money to the Prop 8 campaign. Also, it seems to me that they contributed non-monetary support as well in different ways; for example, one story that was linked to by another member (which I don't have right at hand) talked about the LDS Church distributing a televised message on Prop 8 to California LDS meeting houses by satellite. That sort of thing would have a fairly substantial dollar value if it were actually costed out, but I doubt that it's going to appear in any formal statement as a campaign contribution.

I think their most significant impact, though, was in encouraging individual members to support the proposition themselves.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I think their most significant impact, though, was in encouraging individual members to support the proposition themselves.

It was a direct request and call on all loyal followers, if not a command: California and Same-Sex Marriage - LDS Newsroom

Note the letter was read to every congregation and it says explicitly that local Church leaders will tell you how to get involved. As I've said before, the LDS Church was the MVP in the anti-civil rights starting lineup: $16 million in contributions of $1000 or more from individual Mormon donors, almost entirely from Utah, to a campaign which raised a total of ~$35 million nationally.

There's no way Focus on the Family could have contributed 100 times as much as the LDS Church because the total raised was $35 million, and according to the site Penguin linked Proposition 8 Contributions the LDS Church itself gave $2.8 million.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There's no way Focus on the Family could have contributed 100 times as much as the LDS Church because the total raised was $35 million, and according to the site Penguin linked Proposition 8 Contributions the LDS Church itself gave $2.8 million.

Not $2.8 million - $2.8 thousand. There's no scaling or anything like that on the amounts listed on the site; it really is just $2,800 and change.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Not $2.8 million - $2.8 thousand. There's no scaling or anything like that on the amounts listed on the site; it really is just $2,800 and change.

Oh, my bad.....at any rate....

 

[darkendless]

1. The Mormon church as a legal right to take a stance on political issues, just like any other religious organization. That right is protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. If you think that all religious institutions should be taxed, fine (good luck on that), but to target the Mormon church in particular for taxation is bigoted.

Please see above.

They really should ammend that to say "deal with your own flock before preaching to the rest." I thought religion and state were meant to be separate? Churches should be tax free as long as they mind their own business, which isn't the case here.

 

[silvermoon383]

Relocated to here.