You are missing the point, there is no reason to consider god in the equation when there is no evidence for God in the first place. So take your example and replace God with anything, We can't prove weather a PS3 organized the planets or they came to be by themselves because we have only seen it one way.
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An appeal for the logic of religious belief
- Thread starter Popeyesays
- Start date
You are missing the point, there is no reason to consider god in the equation when there is no evidence for God in the first place. So take your example and replace God with anything, We can't prove weather a PS3 organized the planets or they came to be by themselves because we have only seen it one way.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Personal experience is quite compelling evidence for the person experiencing it.
I know you never tried to prove something false. Your original (mistyped) questions you asked others to try to prove something false that there was no evidence for in the first place. Which is an obvious typo on your part.
You are so erudite I can only apologize for my perfunctory mistake. However in the future please be less truculent towards my extemporaneous posts it makes you look ingenuous. I am only trying to express my magnanimity.
You are correct, but there is vast evidence for the erroneous nature of the human mind. There is no evidence for God or the experiences you have relative to him.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Well i suppose if there was agroup that believed that a PS3 organized the universe then they could make the same claim. But I am not aware of any group. But there is no reason not to consider God in the equation when there is no evidence God didn't organize the universe. So give me some evidence that God didn't organize the universe. When I look at the stars, the vastness of space, geology, biology, etc. I see evidence of God's influence.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Nor is there any contradictory evidence, so the assumption that such experiences are erroneous is unfounded.
:sad4: you make me sooo sad!!!!!!!! Anyone else want to respond to this one, I am tired of this same theist point over and over again. I think this is the third or forth time in the past hr I have read a post like this.
True to an extent, in the end the experiences have to fall into one of two categories, either they are errors of the mind or divine experiences. I do not know about the rest of you but I am going to place my money on the one there is evidence for.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Oh you can't quite like this I haven't gotten to my point yet. Storm almost made my point. The point is that anything you can use as evidence against God I can use as evidence FOR God. The only think that makes the difference is our own personal perceptions. Our own personal experiences and what we percieve to be real. How do i know that even you are real? How do I know that any thing around me is real. The only evidence there is for or against God is within a person and their perceptions.
How can I prove that the Earth is millions of years old(which I do believe by the way)? Well I can trust the scientist who have made the claims. But what evidence do I have that they know what they are talking about? Or in a greater extreme, what evidence do I have that those scientist are even real. I don't have any. I can only make judgements upon the information I've gained from my experiences.
That's why this is such a debateable topic. That's why faith is so important for people who believe in God. Even if God came down in all His glory and performed some amazing miracle for everyone to see, it still wouldn't be evidence that God exists. The evidence for anything only exists within our own perceptions of reality. And that is what we can't measure, our perceptions of reality.
Sorry to not give you a longer response but I keep having to point on the same thing time and time again, it is getting tiring.
First off back to your last post, I did not bother responding because you can not disprove something when there is no evidence for it in the first place. Make sure you remember that it is basic and important, and tell your friends.
About your last post I point you to here: Intersubjective verifiability
And here: Scientific Method
In the end there is no point in bothering with your inability to know if you are real or not. You should look at the evidence at hand and start from there. Don't go wasting your life away believing in something there is no evidence for.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Exactly. That was the point I was making. I am using the evidence I have at hand and believing in it. That is what I have evidence for and that is what I believe in. You have evidence for what you believe in and that's why you believe in it.
I'm not wasting my time believing in something there is no evidence for. I am improving my life by believing in something that I do have evidence for.
So I'm assuming that we are agreed in that we both believe in things we have evidence for.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Or they're both. In any event, there's no evidence for either stance, nor my alternative. There is only speculation.
Incorrect what you have is an subjective opinion, what I have is verifiable evidence. It is not evidence if others can not test it.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
What verifiable evidence is there that there is no God?
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Agreed. What verifiable evidence is there, that there is no God?
The verifiable evidence that there is no god is that you think you just asked a valid question. If there was a god then you would already know that your question is, nicely put, moronic. I am not even going to bother explaining why it is to either of you.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
BS. You claimed your position is supported by verifiable evidence, so provide it. Ad hominem fools nobody.
rojse
RF Addict
If gravity is God then, God must be pretty weak. He can only act on matter, for example, and his influence decreases in proportion of the distance that he is from an object. Certainly, he does not take any active influence, nor does he directly bother himself in people's affairs unless, for example, they happen to jump over a cliff.
If you want to say that God is the universe, you might just as well call God the universe. The universe is everything that is encapsuled inside it - matter, energy, and so forth. By it's very definition, there is nothing outside of the universe, unless you want to go into complex metaphysical speculation.
The difference between the equipment used to detect gravity and that used to detect God is that the equipment for gravity can be used by anyone, and achieve a result, regardless of their original belief. However, the equipment used to detect god depends on all number of nebulous concepts, such as belief, and so forth.
Your analogy about the toy car and the box is quite appropriate, and this is a far better analogy than gravity and god.
For the toy car, I can examine the car, measure it, look at it, and so forth. My seeing it does not depend on what my personal opinion is - it will always be a toy car. As for what is in the box, who knows what it is? Is it a doll? A boat? A car? An electronic game? Indeed, how do you know that there is even anything in the box?
Rolling_Stone
Well-Known Member
I gotta go with F. W. H. Myers:
Go back and read the series of posts we were not talking about god we were talking about 'divine experiences'. I have verifiable evidence for erroneous nature of the human mind. Where there is no verifiable evidence for divine experiences. And by the way, it is moronic to ask someone to prove god does not exist, because no one can prove something false when there is no evidence for it in the first place. Will you please get this in your head. So you see why I did not bother responding before, if you just read a little you would have realize what was going on.