An example of why I am against prostitution

[Kungfuzed]

The prostitutes I have encountered, having worked in a jail here in the USA, are even more sociopathic than the johns in my opinion. All of them were drug addicts with heroin being the drug of choice. STDs are commonplace. Most of them continue to trade sex for goods or favors in prison. One prostitute told me how she gives blowjobs in the bathroom of a strip club for $25 a head with a line of men out the door. She didn't care about the STDs she was spreading. She didn't care if they were married or had diseases of their own. All that mattered was the money, or more specifically the heroin that money bought. These are not innocent young girls. They are hardened, calculating, extremely manipulative con artists. Many would just assume steal from you in your sleep, or even let their man in to rob you at gunpoint. The psych meds prescribed to help them with their depression and mental issues are cheeked to get high or traded, but that's a prison wide issue. I would like to separate prostitution from drug addiction and prison culture but I have yet to encounter a single example. All of the prostitutes I have met are involved not just in drugs, but also in other crimes (or covering for the crimes of their boyfriend). This makes the legalization and regulation of prostitution that Sunstone mentioned problematic since most government jobs require a clean record and drug screen. There would have to be amnesty in the beginning. Many of them would still not be able to practice legally due to STDs. Of course, my experience is only anecdotal. Perhaps there are many responsible, clean living, prostitutes who have avoided the jail where I worked. As for the johns, I can't see them registering either. Think about the privacy issues, married men, public figures.

As for coercion, I'm under the impression that prostitutes seek out and actively solicit their clients, telling them up front what they are willing to do and the price. In this case I don't think it is the john using economic coercion to bully someone into sex. The john didn't make her poor or addicted to drugs. In the situation of the housekeeper, the woman has steady employment and the boss threatens to take that away if she doesn't have sex. In the situation of the prostitute, she is already unemployed and looking for sex work. The john doesn't take employment from her by offering her money for sex. She is free to walk away and loose or gain nothing. That is not true of the housekeeper. If all the johns suddenly dissapeared, would she be better off? What would she do instead and why isn't she already doing it? Are the alternative career choices so much worse than getting banged by Donald Trump?

 

[Badran]

Of course, my experience is only anecdotal.

I think the above addresses a lot of what you brought up in this regard. Working in a jail environment entails quite a few things. Though parts like most of them being addicted to drugs isn't necessarily even speaking against the prostitutes, rather against the conditions it implies they have to live in.

Also, when you're in a business controlled mostly by scum you need to develop certain personality traits in order to survive. This is hardly something to be surprised with or to blame the prostitutes for. You're mostly addressing the results of the conditions these girls face, and then are further narrowing it down to the worst possible examples due to your personal experience.

I do think you bring up an interesting point though in regards to some of the difficulties that'd face legalization, both in regards to the prostitutes and the johns.

 

[Simurgh]

The prostitutes I have encountered, having worked in a jail here in the USA, are even more sociopathic than the johns in my opinion. All of them were drug addicts with heroin being the drug of choice. STDs are commonplace. Most of them continue to trade sex for goods or favors in prison. One prostitute told me how she gives blowjobs in the bathroom of a strip club for $25 a head with a line of men out the door. She didn't care about the STDs she was spreading. She didn't care if they were married or had diseases of their own. All that mattered was the money, or more specifically the heroin that money bought. These are not innocent young girls. They are hardened, calculating, extremely manipulative con artists. Many would just assume steal from you in your sleep, or even let their man in to rob you at gunpoint. The psych meds prescribed to help them with their depression and mental issues are cheeked to get high or traded, but that's a prison wide issue. I would like to separate prostitution from drug addiction and prison culture but I have yet to encounter a single example. All of the prostitutes I have met are involved not just in drugs, but also in other crimes (or covering for the crimes of their boyfriend). This makes the legalization and regulation of prostitution that Sunstone mentioned problematic since most government jobs require a clean record and drug screen. There would have to be amnesty in the beginning. Many of them would still not be able to practice legally due to STDs. Of course, my experience is only anecdotal. Perhaps there are many responsible, clean living, prostitutes who have avoided the jail where I worked. As for the johns, I can't see them registering either. Think about the privacy issues, married men, public figures.

As for coercion, I'm under the impression that prostitutes seek out and actively solicit their clients, telling them up front what they are willing to do and the price. In this case I don't think it is the john using economic coercion to bully someone into sex. The john didn't make her poor or addicted to drugs. In the situation of the housekeeper, the woman has steady employment and the boss threatens to take that away if she doesn't have sex. In the situation of the prostitute, she is already unemployed and looking for sex work. The john doesn't take employment from her by offering her money for sex. She is free to walk away and loose or gain nothing. That is not true of the housekeeper. If all the johns suddenly dissapeared, would she be better off? What would she do instead and why isn't she already doing it? Are the alternative career choices so much worse than getting banged by Donald Trump?

First, let’s look at the reason those women turned to prostitution before you condemn them as sociopaths.
The fact is that 90%+ of all women in jail have PTSD, stemming from physical and sexual abuse they endured as children. And really, if I were in their shoes I would probably take drugs too. How degrading, to have to sell yourself. Not only to survive, but also to support that piece of s*** pimp who leeches of you. Oh, the innocent young girl that’s not there? Yeah, she is and was. During my decade in corrections I have come across teenage prostitutes that have been sold into prostitution by their fathers, mothers, and brothers as young as 11. In some cases their families sell them to men in exchange for drugs, other times it’s because they owe favors. Don’t tell me those girls picked that life because they were drug addicts or were sociopaths. Yes, by the time they are 15, 16 they are con artists and manipulative, but what would you be? Dead most likely since you either get with the program or you roll over and die.

Why worry about the privacy of the johns. They get into the situation with both eyes open and their wallet in hand. I have no sympathy for them, ever. If they were so concerned about their health and wellbeing they would not have sex with a prostitute, especially not when they have to stand in line to get to her. At some point these men have to be held accountable too. It is not women’s fault that they choose not to use their northern brain. They are the idiots and they simply get what they deserve.

Do you really worry about the johns? Why? Because prostitution is only illegal for the prostitutes and not the men who use them? Yes, I know there are women who use prostitutes too, but in this specific instant we are only addressing female prostitutes and male johns (see above post). Concerning the john being the poor victim here who did not coerce her into that life. Nah, he is just the slime who uses her and the situation she is in to his advantage. And while the individual john may not have led her to drug use, he certainly helps her maintain the status quo.


With legalized prostitution controls can be set in place to address public health concerns; they can find safe places to work; they can pay into the tax system and eventually get pensions. It worked in many countries just fine. Why can Americans not simply decriminalize it, regulate it and tax it like other western countries?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The prostitutes I have encountered, having worked in a jail here in the USA, are even more sociopathic than the johns in my opinion. All of them were drug addicts with heroin being the drug of choice. STDs are commonplace. Most of them continue to trade sex for goods or favors in prison. One prostitute told me how she gives blowjobs in the bathroom of a strip club for $25 a head with a line of men out the door. She didn't care about the STDs she was spreading. She didn't care if they were married or had diseases of their own. All that mattered was the money, or more specifically the heroin that money bought. These are not innocent young girls. They are hardened, calculating, extremely manipulative con artists. Many would just assume steal from you in your sleep, or even let their man in to rob you at gunpoint. The psych meds prescribed to help them with their depression and mental issues are cheeked to get high or traded, but that's a prison wide issue. I would like to separate prostitution from drug addiction and prison culture but I have yet to encounter a single example. All of the prostitutes I have met are involved not just in drugs, but also in other crimes (or covering for the crimes of their boyfriend). This makes the legalization and regulation of prostitution that Sunstone mentioned problematic since most government jobs require a clean record and drug screen. There would have to be amnesty in the beginning. Many of them would still not be able to practice legally due to STDs. Of course, my experience is only anecdotal. Perhaps there are many responsible, clean living, prostitutes who have avoided the jail where I worked. As for the johns, I can't see them registering either. Think about the privacy issues, married men, public figures.

As for coercion, I'm under the impression that prostitutes seek out and actively solicit their clients, telling them up front what they are willing to do and the price. In this case I don't think it is the john using economic coercion to bully someone into sex. The john didn't make her poor or addicted to drugs. In the situation of the housekeeper, the woman has steady employment and the boss threatens to take that away if she doesn't have sex. In the situation of the prostitute, she is already unemployed and looking for sex work. The john doesn't take employment from her by offering her money for sex. She is free to walk away and loose or gain nothing. That is not true of the housekeeper. If all the johns suddenly dissapeared, would she be better off? What would she do instead and why isn't she already doing it? Are the alternative career choices so much worse than getting banged by Donald Trump?

Wow, this sort of victim blaming just ticks me off. Oh, those "poor johns". If you chose to take advantage of a drug addicted desperate woman who has STDs, then what are you? You're an abuser and a predator and keeping the cycle going.

The john registry is a wonderful idea. If it keeps hypocrites who have no business having sex with hookers out of the picture, all the better. The reputations of cheating men and hypocritical public figures don't deserve any protection.

 

[dust1n]

Would it be possible for everyone to tone it down several soap dramas?


I don't think a few paragraphs are going to accurately describe the nature of prostitution and all its various forms and customs and placements, etc.

Maybe we can all agree on that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Would it be possible for everyone to tone it down several soap dramas?

Who is being dramatic? When someone says something silly or offensive, they're going to get a response.

 

[Badran]

I don't think a few paragraphs are going to accurately describe the nature of prostitution and all its various forms and customs and placements, etc.

Actually i think that's the main problem with this thread. That so much posts are trying to do exactly that, in even less than a few paragraphs.

 

[Simurgh]

Wow, this sort of victim blaming just ticks me off. Oh, those "poor johns". If you chose to take advantage of a drug addicted desperate woman who has STDs, then what are you? You're an abuser and a predator and keeping the cycle going.

The john registry is a wonderful idea. If it keeps hypocrites who have no business having sex with hookers out of the picture, all the better. The reputations of cheating men and hypocritical public figures don't deserve any protection.

yeah, succinct and to the point. why worry about the poor johns?

instead we should worry about the poor women married to those ever so upstanding examples of manliness? those are the ones who want to keep their daughters locked up until they marry guys just like their fathers. primarily because they are afraid all men are just like them, no morals and always willing to exploit those who are already damaged .

by all means, we should feel sorry for them when they get caught in the net they so willingly maintain and step into.

 

[dust1n]

Actually i think that's the main problem with this thread. That so much posts are trying to do exactly that, in even less than a few paragraphs.

That's generally the problem with most threads. There are reasonable limits on how much one is going to sit there and add to something. But, at some point, the endeavors becomes kinda of wreckless.

 

[freethinker44]

yeah, succinct and to the point. why worry about the poor johns?

instead we should worry about the poor women married to those ever so upstanding examples of manliness? those are the ones who want to keep their daughters locked up until they marry guys just like their fathers. primarily because they are afraid all men are just like them, no morals and always willing to exploit those who are already damaged .

by all means, we should feel sorry for them when they get caught in the net they so willingly maintain and step into.

Misandry much?

 

[psychoslice]

Prostitution doesn't worry me the least, its nothing to do with me and its no ones business what others do in acts of pleasure, many people are married, but take away the sex and most marriages will collapse, they are really nothing more than legal prostitution.

 

[Alceste]

Misandry much?

Contempt for johns =/= contempt for men.

 

[esmith]

Was in Pahrump NV some years back and the local house of prostitution was having an open house. A few of us, along with our wives, took a tour. The some employees, both women and men, said they chose this profession and would only remain in for a short period of time. A couple were in college and earning their tuition for next year. Now you can believe it or not, but that was their reason.

 

[Simurgh]

Misandry much?

Ok, sign me up.

But is it misandry not to care what happens to grown men who want to spend their money on prostitution and to feel sorry for the wives they betray and the children they humiliate?
I should worry about their so-called privacy when caught paying for sex? If they are that concerned, then they know better than to engage in such behavior. If it shames them, why do it? or is it only that they get caught that is shameful for them?

 

[Father Heathen]

In a perfect world where everything was voluntary I am sure prostitution would be fine.
In the world we live in it is an awful business.
Relative sold girl (15) for

I oppose rape and I oppose slavery. I do, however, see nothing wrong with private transactions between consenting adults (two key words there).

 

[Kungfuzed]

First, let’s look at the reason those women turned to prostitution before you condemn them as sociopaths.

Why worry about the privacy of the johns. They get into the situation with both eyes open and their wallet in hand. I have no sympathy for them, ever. If they were so concerned about their health and wellbeing they would not have sex with a prostitute, especially not when they have to stand in line to get to her. At some point these men have to be held accountable too. It is not women’s fault that they choose not to use their northern brain. They are the idiots and they simply get what they deserve.

Do you really worry about the johns? Why? Because prostitution is only illegal for the prostitutes and not the men who use them? Yes, I know there are women who use prostitutes too, but in this specific instant we are only addressing female prostitutes and male johns (see above post). Concerning the john being the poor victim here who did not coerce her into that life. Nah, he is just the slime who uses her and the situation she is in to his advantage. And while the individual john may not have led her to drug use, he certainly helps her maintain the status quo.


With legalized prostitution controls can be set in place to address public health concerns; they can find safe places to work; they can pay into the tax system and eventually get pensions. It worked in many countries just fine. Why can Americans not simply decriminalize it, regulate it and tax it like other western countries?

I said nothing about how they ended up as prostitutes. Everyone is born innocent. I'm only making an observation of what they have become, at least the ones I've met. I worked in an adult jail. I never met any of them as children or teenagers.

I don't feel sorry for the johns, nor did I label them as a victim. I just don't think coercion describes the transaction properly. It was in response to Alcest's post which I should have quoted but I figured it would be right under her's. But instead I ended up on a new page.

Wow, this sort of victim blaming just ticks me off. Oh, those "poor johns". If you chose to take advantage of a drug addicted desperate woman who has STDs, then what are you? You're an abuser and a predator and keeping the cycle going.

The john registry is a wonderful idea. If it keeps hypocrites who have no business having sex with hookers out of the picture, all the better. The reputations of cheating men and hypocritical public figures don't deserve any protection.

I pointed out privacy issues for the johns because they're not going to bother registering for Sunstone's government takeover of prostitution. It's not that I'm worried about them. A john registry will no more stop illegal prostitution than having a background check will stop the sale of illegal guns. Prostitutes with STDs or involved in drugs will remain underground doing business with johns who value their privacy.

I apologize if I offended anyone, but I don't think anyone has really explained the harsh reality of the situation. If we only think of them as victims, how can we hold them responsible for their actions and demand that they change? We can offer every government program in the book, provide free psychiatric care, social workers, health care, but if they aren't ready to change it's all wasted. Throwing more money at them isn't the answer. They already know how to convert every handout into drugs. The government run bordellos would just be one more revolving door in a broken system. Ultimately, the victim who grew up to be a criminal has to take responsibility for their own life. It sounds unfair but that's reality. Tough love.

 

[Simurgh]

I said nothing about how they ended up as prostitutes. Everyone is born innocent. I'm only making an observation of what they have become, at least the ones I've met. I worked in an adult jail. I never met any of them as children or teenagers.

I don't feel sorry for the johns, nor did I label them as a victim. I just don't think coercion describes the transaction properly. It was in response to Alcest's post which I should have quoted but I figured it would be right under her's. But instead I ended up on a new page.


I pointed out privacy issues for the johns because they're not going to bother registering for Sunstone's government takeover of prostitution. It's not that I'm worried about them. A john registry will no more stop illegal prostitution than having a background check will stop the sale of illegal guns. Prostitutes with STDs or involved in drugs will remain underground doing business with johns who value their privacy.

I apologize if I offended anyone, but I don't think anyone has really explained the harsh reality of the situation. If we only think of them as victims, how can we hold them responsible for their actions and demand that they change? We can offer every government program in the book, provide free psychiatric care, social workers, health care, but if they aren't ready to change it's all wasted. Throwing more money at them isn't the answer. They already know how to convert every handout into drugs. The government run bordellos would just be one more revolving door in a broken system. Ultimately, the victim who grew up to be a criminal has to take responsibility for their own life. It sounds unfair but that's reality. Tough love.

well, i have been in corrections for a while now and i may have a better understanding of what it takes to get to the point where someone becomes a prostitute because i can empathize and have access to their background.

i do understand why they turn to drugs, and why it i almost impossible for them to get away from prostitution, as most don't have a long life expectancy. some get murdered by their johns who think that their money allows them to use this women until they are dead. some die of illnesses, alcohol, get killed by their pimps, die in prison , whatever. most of them have one thing in common, they are victims. now you may not want to see it that way. but that does not change the fact that they are. and yes, once they are there they keep on going with drugs, crime, and so on. but what do we do other than judge them as sociopaths the way you do?

what exactly do you want to hold them responsible for? sure, they have to take responsibility. and even if you don't think so, they actually do. how many have you seen asking for government handouts? even if they were available? no, they usually don't do that. they take responsibility, do their time in jail and move on. so why not regulate the business and allow them to conduct their profession as a business? look at the results of legalized prostitution outside the US, or if you prefer the legalized bordellos in Nevada. these women are clearly better off being in a legal environment.

nobody said legalizing prostitution is the answer to all the world's problems. but who cares, if it only helps half the prostitutes in this country, then it's definitely worth doing.

 

[dust1n]

look at the results of legalized prostitution outside the US, or if you prefer the legalized bordellos in Nevada. these women are clearly better off being in a legal environment.

Look at what results?

 

[Simurgh]

Look at what results?

Legalizing prostitution increases safety by allowing a certain amount of control over the industry --and not just by locl government but by the women themselves.


Secured buildings with cameras; police patrols, alarm systems; health and hygiene checks , access to unlimited free STD checkups. The benefits are not just for the sex workers who have access to protection from their clients, although it does cut down on the maiming and murder of these same workers. But in the end, the increased availability of health checkups and hygiene regulations benefit the families of the men who frequent sex workers too, since they are no longer at the mercy of their cheating partners alone since only those who “pass” the STD tests can work.

And no, it does not stop illegal prostitution—when the sex workers work without licenses. But at least it protects the ones who do the job according to the law and regualtions.

 

[dust1n]

Legalizing prostitution increases safety by allowing a certain amount of control over the industry --and not just by locl government but by the women themselves.

Secured buildings with cameras; police patrols, alarm systems; health and hygiene checks , access to unlimited free STD checkups. The benefits are not just for the sex workers who have access to protection from their clients, although it does cut down on the maiming and murder of these same workers. But in the end, the increased availability of health checkups and hygiene regulations benefit the families of the men who frequent sex workers too, since they are no longer at the mercy of their cheating partners alone since only those who “pass” the STD tests can work.

And no, it does not stop illegal prostitution—when the sex workers work without licenses. But at least it protects the ones who do the job according to the law and regualtions.

These aren't results, they are conjectures; hypothesis. This claim has been made many times, but I've yet to see empirical data that supports it.