An example of why I am against prostitution

[Sunstone]

I think if I could summarize my argument into two main points it would be as such.

1.) While it does appear that brothel type situations in legal countries have the advantage of providing some safety, it is correlated very strongly and obviously with the surge of sex trafficking and in large ways, increases immigration as low income people flock to the country.

2.) There's still a lack of evidence that "regulation" (and the majority of the countries being referenced is all past posts on my part do have "regulation" of all sorts) is decreasing violence, disease, coercion, etc. What sort of regulator is actually going to accomplish its goal? Who will oversee the nation wide brothel registry and "regulate" them?

This is why my proposal to give government a monopoly on prostitution, along with a national registry and licensing of johns, is the only truly viable way to go.

 

[Simurgh]

Here is a link so you can see how Europe deals with prostitution. Usually it is the national department of health that is involved in the registration, since prostitutes need to be checked for VD ever so often.
Prostitution in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, there are some countries where prostitution is regulated and legal for the prostitutes. The clients, though, are the ones who are arrested since it is a crime to buy sexual services, but not to sell them.

 

[freethinker44]

Then finding empirical evidence that supports your claim should be particularly easy. Otherwise, I'd have to take an appeal to "common sense" seriously, which, is just not possible.

What's the point? If you can't understand common sense you probably won't be able to understand empirical evidence, so it's not really worth my time to look it up for you.

I'll give you this though, if something was illegal, where would you most likely have to go to get, a PTA bake sale or a pimp/drug dealer/etc...? (Hint: the answer is not PTA)

Now where are you most likely to be a victim of a violent crime, a PTA bake sale or buying illegal goods/services?

Common sense.

 

[Sunstone]

What's the point? If you can't understand common sense you probably won't be able to understand empirical evidence, so it's not really worth my time to look it up for you.

I'll give you this though, if something was illegal, where would you most likely have to go to get, a PTA bake sale or a pimp/drug dealer/etc...? (Hint: the answer is not PTA)

Now where are you most likely to be a victim of a violent crime, a PTA bake sale or buying illegal goods/services?

Common sense.

While I agree with you that criminalizing prostitution would most likely just drive it into the hands of the underworld, and thus, increase the risks to prostitute and john alike, I don't think common sense is a good reason to believe such a thing. Rather, I agree with with Einstein that common sense can be largely reduced to the mere assumptions and prejudices one forms before the age of 18. Those who are moved too much by common sense often find themselves hard put to accept contradictory evidence no matter how rigorously established it is by scientific methods and reasoning.

 

[freethinker44]

While I agree with you that criminalizing prostitution would most likely just drive it into the hands of the underworld, and thus, increase the risks to prostitute and john alike, I don't think common sense is a good reason to believe such a thing. Rather, I agree with with Einstein that common sense can be largely reduced to the mere assumptions and prejudices one forms before the age of 18. Those who are moved too much by common sense often find themselves hard put to accept contradictory evidence no matter how rigorously established it is by scientific methods and reasoning.

It's just semantics. How about self-evident then?

 

[Sunstone]

It's just semantics. How about self-evident then?

As my first professor of logic once said, "People say something is self-evident or intuitively true when they don't have good reasons why it it is the case."

The reasoning you gave for your position is, in my opinion, about as strong as reason alone gets. But for it to be compelling, it needs to be validated by empirical evidence. However, in the absence of any solid reasoning or evidence to the contrary, I'd tentatively go with your position as the best we can do at this time.

 

[freethinker44]

As my first professor of logic once said, "People say something is self-evident or intuitively true when they don't have good reasons why it it is the case."

I would say if something is obvious to the point of not requiring proof, it's self-evident. That doing business with criminals is more dangerous than doing business with non-criminals is pretty obvious to me. The only proof needed is, "the obvious answer is obvious".

 

[Sunstone]

I would say if something is obvious to the point of not requiring proof, it's self-evident. That doing business with criminals is more dangerous than doing business with non-criminals is pretty obvious to me. The only proof needed is, "the obvious answer is obvious".

I think, if you actually take a moment to think it through, you are basing that judgment on a hell of a lot of evidence. The answer is not "obvious" if you did not know countless things about criminals, doing business with criminals, etc. Things that are quite factual -- that is, evidential.

 

[freethinker44]

I think, if you actually take a moment to think it through, you are basing that judgment on a hell of a lot of evidence. The answer is not "obvious" if you did not know countless things about criminals, doing business with criminals, etc. Things that are quite factual -- that is, evidential.

Ok given basic knowledge of crime, it's obvious that dealing with criminals is dangerous. I seriously just asked my 6-year-old the same question in kids terms and she didn't even hesitate to answer the same. It should definitely be obvious to a grown man or woman who has researched and is debating the topic. And if it's not then they aren't worth my time anyways, so either way...

I'm not going to debate whether or not someone should know that criminals are dangerous. This getting ridiculous, I'm done.

 

[dust1n]

What's the point? If you can't understand common sense you probably won't be able to understand empirical evidence, so it's not really worth my time to look it up for you.

I'll give you this though, if something was illegal, where would you most likely have to go to get, a PTA bake sale or a pimp/drug dealer/etc...? (Hint: the answer is not PTA)

Now where are you most likely to be a victim of a violent crime, a PTA bake sale or buying illegal goods/services?

Common sense.

Sorry, your common sense is rather meaningless to me. If you can't produce anything to back up your argument other than you find it intuitive, then I have no one reason to take it seriously.

Until then, not much to discuss here.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's common sense.

I'll add that it's common sense based upon USistan experience with prohibition (both alcohol & drugs).

But the evidence that legalized prostitution is more corrupting than illegal prostitution has been lacking.
Yeah, I saw some presented earlier, but it was very weak.

Ok given basic knowledge of crime, it's obvious that dealing with criminals is dangerous. I seriously just asked my 6-year-old the same question in kids terms and she didn't even hesitate to answer the same. It should definitely be obvious to a grown man or woman who has researched and is debating the topic. And if it's not then they aren't worth my time anyways, so either way...

Perhaps this reasoning is too simple to be impressive, eh?

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not going to debate whether or not someone should know that criminals are dangerous. This is ridiculous.

I don't blame you. Indeed, I happen to think you're right that driving prostitution underground increases the risks both prostitutes and johns take.

Another reason why my proposal to create a government monopoly on prostitution is the sanest proposal yet.

 

[dust1n]

I'll add that it's common sense based upon USistan experience with prohibition (both alcohol & drugs).

Except one can find great evidence to support the notion of legalizing drugs and the positive affects it has on society when drug abuse is treated like a illness instead of a crime. I can't find the same info concerning prostitution, and no one has yet provided it to me, so...

 

[Revoltingest]

Except one can find great evidence to support the notion of legalizing drugs and the positive affects it has on society when drug abuse is treated like a illness instead of a crime. I can't find the same info concerning prostitution, and no one has yet provided it to me, so...

This raises another option. Perhaps prostitution could be treated similarly, ie, legalized but with social programs to help avoid it.
Note: Legal drug use has the downside of being more mentally debilitating, so I consider it a great danger (even though I favor it).

 

[dust1n]

This is why my proposal to give government a monopoly on prostitution, along with a national registry and licensing of johns, is the only truly viable way to go.

Probably is one of the better ways to approach it.

 

[dust1n]

This raises another option. Perhaps prostitution could be treated similarly, ie, legalized but with social programs to help avoid it.
Note: Legal drug use has the downside of being more mentally debilitating, so I consider it a great danger (even though I favor it).

I'd feel better about that. Heck, I'd feel a lot better about it if sex trafficking wasn't constantly rising, but was being curbed effectively. But, ya know.

 

[Sunstone]

Probably is one of the better ways to approach it.

Thanks! It will never happen, but I think it makes the best of a bad situation.

 

[Revoltingest]

Probably is one of the better ways to approach it.

Nationalizing the pimp business?
That would still make private prostitution illegal, & solve no problem.
Why you ask?
Wouldn't customers be satisfied going to their local IRS (Intimate Randy Servicing) agency?
Think of the kind of people government hires for the DMV.
http://www.cele*****y.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/patty-selma.jpg

 

[roger1440]

Because unlike surfing/climbing and biking I believe that prostitution is inherently abusive.
The experts tell me that very few people willingly engage in prostitution and I believe them.

What "experts" have told you? Your "experts" are wrong.

 

[roger1440]

Chinese couple sells babies for iPhones and shoes, authorities say
"(CNN) -- A Shanghai couple are facing charges after allegedly selling three of their newborns to pay for iPhones, computers and high-end shoes, Chinese authorities said...."

I guess you have something againest iPhones too.