McBell
Unbound
So, are you going to answer the question or keep running tail tucked?
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An example of why I am against prostitution
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
So, are you going to answer the question or keep running tail tucked?
Alceste
Vagabond
lol - it's still funny, Mestemia.
If you think the rhetorical question with which I answered your rhetorical question was not an answer, you might need to read it again. That's my answer, and that's what you're gonna have to work with.
Or, you know, you could just keep doing whatever it is you're doing, which I'm not at all interested in, and deal with the fact that this post is all the flame war action you're going to get out of this particular mark.
McBell
Unbound
Interesting how you decided it to be a rhetorical question in order to get out of answering.
to each their own.
though i do find it interesting merely asking why you think your idea of intimacy is the end all be all of intimacy is such a flaming subject for you.
Alceste
Vagabond
McBell
Unbound
You're so predictable.
Interesting.
So much for:
deal with the fact that this post is all the flame war action you're going to get out of this particular mark.
But I promise: you can have the last word
Good, good. I usually wear a ball cap, so that's fine with me.
Simurgh
Atheist Triple Goddess
i remember living there when i was 17, that was a long time ago...and i actually did wear berets occasionally.
Goldman is largely right, but she neglects to mention that social norms which make premarital sex largely unavailable also increase the demand for prostitution. The sexual revolution of the 1960s was associated with a huge decrease in the number of working prostitutes in the US.
Alceste
Vagabond
So the solution is more social acceptance of premarital and extramarital sex! Sounds awesome! I'm sure the Christian right will be all ears.
I think you're both right. The demand comes from lack of opportunity, but the fact that anyone is willing to fulfill it comes from economic disadvantage.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
This probably applies to most jobs.
Alceste
Vagabond
Most jobs don't offer an 1800% higher than normal chance of being murdered at work. Even soldiers in combat are far less likely than prostitutes to suffer a violent death.
Prostitution in Five Countries: Violence and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder | Ufuk Sezgin - Academia.edu
I really think you guys all need to stop thinking of prostitution in the same category as "crappy job", like flipping burgers, and start thinking of it in the same category as "humanitarian crisis", like systemic sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
That is only because it is criminalized. If buying a gallon of milk was illegal than being a victim of a violent crime would be much higher for people who drank milk. Because if you make something illegal you push it into the criminal underworld, or whatever you want to call it.
True dat.
Alceste
Vagabond
If that were the case, you would expect to find that legalization causes harm reduction. Evidence has already been presented in this thread that this expected improvement has not occured wherever prostitution has been legalized, so I expect you might need to rethink your conclusions.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
From the links I saw, it seemed the problem wasn't legalization but letting them run unregulated. That's not what I'm arguing for. I would argue against any business being unregulated. That's even predictable that crime would go up if prostitution was legalized but unregulated. Now the criminals who ran it illegally can do what ever they want without consequence, of course it is going to get worse. Regulation is the key.
Alceste
Vagabond
Fair enough. I'd like to see sex workers protected by the same regulations the rest of us enjoy. Some of those might not be very popular with johns, though, such as the right to refuse dangerous work, the right to safety protection, freedom from sexual harassment in the workplace and of course the right to withdraw sexual consent at any time before or during an encounter.
It's a tricky one, since if johns don't appreciate those restrictions they'll happily keep a black market sex trade run by criminals in business alongside the legit trade.
Simurgh
Atheist Triple Goddess
I think another thing none of us really addressed is the fact that the illicit, daring, forbidden, risqué, and/or criminal is exciting and enticing for many. Even where prostitution is legal, there are those who are used for prostitution who work as illegal prostitutes, or as occasional prostitutes. There are those who are straightforward sex slaves, especially young children, and then there are those reports of children who are sexually abused in chat rooms and via video cams for the gratification of people continents removed who pay via credit cards. These children a prostituted by their families and can be assumed to be victims of prostitution too.
The billions of dollars that the illegal sex trade generates a year prove that those who can afford to pay for the brutalization and victimization of children and adults coerced, forced and threatened into prostitution/ porn care little about the objects of their sexual urges. (And yes, I am aware of the fact that not all prostitutes are female and not all users are male, so there is no need to belabor that fact.)
Still, if prostitution is decriminalized for adults and regulated like it is in various countries, then there will be at least some prostitutes who can benefit from working in a regulated industry. I go with the idea that even if it benefits only a minority, it still benefits someone. It certainly will not lead to a notable increase in the number of prostitutes available. I have yet to meet a 12 year old who happily embraces a future as a sex worker. And yes, I have met a few, the youngest being 10 when her father started to rent her out to his friends for some drugs, which brought her to a correctional facilitya place she rather enjoyed staying at .then there was the 16 year old who was so happy to be released from the same facility because her boyfriend/pimp was going to wait for her at her mothers house. She was found dead in a dumpster 4 days after her release or the girl who worked so hard to get a high school diploma while in secure care and was shot dead a week later by her pimp who had sold her to another pimp in another state while she was locked up. He shot her because she refused to get in the other mans car.
What we need to vigorously prosecute and severely punish is the pimp, the panderer, the madam, the filth who profits from selling the bodies of those they control. And locking up the users wouldnt hurt either; after all, we do it to the prostitutes as if they were the only ones taking part in the crime.
Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
We shouldn't lock up prostitutes at all
What if a woman hired a male prostitute, would you lock her up & let him go?
Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what would be the best way to handle prostitution. But say I did agree with the Swedish model, then it would apply to everyone who paid for a prostitute.