An introduction.

[od19g6]

So what about those that follow other Gods, other prophets. They are just as convinced as you are about Bahá'u'lláh.

There are also those that have had personal experiences with various Gods. Should they listen to what others claim or rely on their own experience with God?

You asked: 'So what about those that follow other Gods, other prophets. They are just as convinced as you are about Bahá'u'lláh'.

Well the the questions are: what is the nature of the god they believe in? What do the prophet teach they believe in? What do their religion teach about the human being?

You have to understand you don't get a pass and just say I'm a Prophet / Messenger of God, you have to prove yourself.

What personal experience did they have with their gods?

 

[Nakosis]

Well you have to understand anyone claiming they're a Prophet / Messenger of God have to pass 'all' of the criteria mentioned and: Moses, Jesus Christ, Prophet Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah have passed all those criteria.

This is not about simply about liking someone, this is about asking if this person have come to give divine empowerment, give divine education and and inform and cultivate the human being's true divine nature.

If where simply about just liking someone we'd have a lot more jim jones's.

So what is the one most verifiable evidence that convinced you Baha'u'llah is the final messenger to unite all religions?

 

[Nakosis]

You asked: 'So what about those that follow other Gods, other prophets. They are just as convinced as you are about Bahá'u'lláh'.

Well the the questions are: what is the nature of the god they believe in? What do the prophet teach they believe in? What do their religion teach about the human being?

Peace, equality, universal rights, universal education, unity, brotherhood are pretty common.

You have to understand you don't get a pass and just say I'm a Prophet / Messenger of God, you have to prove yourself.

Every individual gets to decide what they see as sufficient proof. Whatever convinced you that Baha'u'llah was God's messenger you decided it was sufficient right?

What personal experience did they have with their gods?

Lots of things but I'd suppose the most convincing would be knowledge that wouldn't normally be known to them or common knowledge to man.

 

[od19g6]

So what is the one most verifiable evidence that convinced you Baha'u'llah is the final messenger to unite all religions?

Well first, Baha'u'llah is not the final Messenger of God, which is one of the proofs of Prophet hood by the way. All true Prophet says that it will be another that God will send after them.

To be honest with you I was actually born into baha'i, my dad was baha'i but that's really not the point. One of the most important things Baha'u'llah says to do is independently search for truths, don't take anyone's word for it, find out for yourself and think for yourself.

Those we're the inspiration growing up and as is I grew I became interested in positivity, helping to improve the world and all things spiritual. Another teaching of Baha'u'llah was that human beings are an ever advancing civilization and the that science and spirituality is in harmony.

See, this is the proof of Prophet hood, how much do the Prophet's teachings help progress human kind.

 

[Nakosis]

Well first, Baha'u'llah is not the final Messenger of God, which is one of the proofs of Prophet hood by the way. All true Prophet says that it will be another that God will send after them.

To be honest with you I was actually born into baha'i, my dad was baha'i but that's really not the point. One of the most important things Baha'u'llah says to do is independently search for truths, don't take anyone's word for it, find out for yourself and think for yourself.

Those we're the inspiration growing up and as is I grew I became interested in positivity, helping to improve the world and all things spiritual. Another teaching of Baha'u'llah was that human beings are an ever advancing civilization and the that science and spirituality is in harmony.

See, this is the proof of Prophet hood, how much do the Prophet's teachings help progress human kind.

How many other religions have you investigated?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you believe in yourself?

Stop trying to physical find God Himself, God is not his creation. God's eternal core essence can never be known or understood, the only way to know and understand God is through his names and attributes which are eternally engraved within the human being.

Good question and observations.

I see our true self is that of the Light of God.

God is unknowable in essence and as such the self of God we can find in ourselves is that reflected by God's Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[od19g6]

Peace, equality, universal rights, universal education, unity, brotherhood are pretty common.



Every individual gets to decide what they see as sufficient proof. Whatever convinced you that Baha'u'llah was God's messenger you decided it was sufficient right?



Lots of things but I'd suppose the most convincing would be knowledge that wouldn't normally be known to them or common knowledge to man.

Another important proof of a Prophet / Messenger that I what to mention is 'love'. Love is why God has sent and always will send Prophets / Messengers to humanity. And love is the reason why the Prophets / Messengers teach their believers the right spiritual path.

One of the message of Baha'u'llah that is special in this day and age is the message of the total planetary unity of human beings. We believe in the concept of progressive revelation, that means that divine revelation have came in different times and stages throughout humanity's evolution and were suited for the times and places that the revelation appeared at.

This day and age that we live in is very different. We believe that humanity is on the verge of coming of age and one of the signs of the coming of age of humanity is the interconnectivity and unification of humanity on a planetary level.

 

[od19g6]

How many other religions have you investigated?

Oh, I try to investigate any religion, belief and ideology I come across because we have to know what's going on around us.

That's also how the human creature works. We like to study, investigate and learn things.

 

[Nakosis]

Oh, I try to investigation any religion, belief and ideology I come across because we have to know what's going on around us.

That's also how the human creature works. We like to study, investigate and learn things.

Did you find the God of each belief?

 

[Nakosis]

Another important proof of a Prophet / Messenger that I what to mention is 'love'. Love is why God has sent and always will send Prophets / Messengers to humanity. And love is the reason why the Prophets / Messengers teach their believers the right spiritual path.

One of the message of Baha'u'llah that is special in this day and age is the message of the total planetary unity of human beings. We believe in the concept of progressive revelation, that means that divine revelation have came in different times and stages throughout humanity's evolution and were suited for the times and places that the revelation appeared at.

This day and age that we live in is very different. We believe that humanity is on the verge of coming of age and one of the signs of the coming of age of humanity is the interconnectivity and unification of humanity on a planetary level.

That's fine but a belief in the future, something not yet in evidence of.

 

[od19g6]

Did you find the God of each belief?

Some I did, some I didn't.

We have to be very careful. A lot of the beliefs and ideologies are based on revelations of old. For example jehovah's witness, hebrew israelites etc. Both of those groups are based off of christianity and the bible, they're not different revelations like islam and baha'i faith.

Another thing we have to watch out for are beliefs and ideologies based on prejudice and hate. Some beliefs and ideologies are racist, they believe that God loves some people and hate other people, they believe that their race is superior than all other races.

This is the insanity that we have to watch out for.

Like I mentioned, the reason for God is love, the reason for the Prophets / Messengers is love, the reason for divine revelation is love.

If the message is about love, unity and progression of the advancement of the human race, then I think we've stumbled upon something good.

 

[od19g6]

That's fine but a belief in the future, something not yet in evidence of.

Well you kind of see it all around us, first it was the radio, then it was the television and now we have the internet. The world is becoming more and more interconnected as time goes on.

 

[Nakosis]

Some I did, some I didn't.

We have to be very careful. A lot of the beliefs and ideologies are based on revelations of old. For example jehovah's witness, hebrew israelites etc. Both of those groups are based off of christianity and the bible, they're not different revelations like islam and baha'i faith.

Another thing we have to watch out for are beliefs and ideologies based on prejudice and hate. Some beliefs and ideologies are racist, they believe that God loves some people and hate other people, they believe that their race is superior than all other races.

This is the insanity that we have to watch out for.

How about groups like the Druids, Pagan/Heathens, Wiccans.

Like I mentioned, the reason for God is love, the reason for the Prophets / Messengers is love, the reason for divine revelation is love.

If the message is about love, unity and progression of the advancement of the race, then I think we've stumbled upon something good.

Wicca is all about love. Does the Baha'i accept Wiccans as part of this universal unity?
I'm just trying to gauge how universal Baha'i actually is, how accepting it is of other beliefs.

So human equality, in the case of homosexuality, does Baha'i accept the LGBTQ community?

 

[Nakosis]

I found this examination interesting.

In considering why the Wiccan/Pagan movement has been so much more numerically successful in the United Kingdom the Theory of Relevance would suggest that over the last half century the Wiccan/Pagan movement has swum with the tide of relevance, while the Bahá’ís have swum against it. Whilst there were significant overlaps in both beliefs and personnel at the start of the twentieth century the Bahá’ís “stalled” and failed to address the issued raised by second and third phase feminisms and feminist theology, conversely Pagan writers were able to “steal their clothes” and present a radical politicized version of female spirituality, ironically in the tradition of Tahirih. The Pagans have been assisted by the fact that the two most important issues of the last half of the twentieth century have been feminism and the environment, issues which were and are integral to Pagan world view and consequently maximized relevance. The Bahá’í s have created an exclusivist and highly structured organisation where plans and strategies are relayed through a “top-down” administration with varying levels of success, conversely, the Pagan movement, unconstrained by administration and critical (in some cases) of structures has flourished and become increasingly inclusive. The prohibition on political activism for s has meant that whilst the widespread acceptance of some of the Bahá’í principles might have encouraged growth the inability to be involved in radical movements may have restricted it, conversely American writers like Starhawk have introduced a political dimension to Paganism which has further increased its relevance to activists. The limited moral and ethical teaching of Paganism has meant it has a resonance with the relative morality of post Christian Britain. Perhaps the widest gulf between modern Pagan and Bahá’í traditions is that the former having outgrown the constraints of Gardnarian orthodoxy is now a widely divergent form of personal spirituality, none of its adherents have any ambition for it to be anything else. The Bahá’í Faith, however, is consciously promoted as not just a spiritual path but a model for future civilization, with laws and organisational structures. Only time will tell which is the model of religion for the twenty first century.
The Baha'í Faith and Wicca

 

[od19g6]

How about groups like the Druids, Pagan/Heathens, Wiccans.



Wicca is all about love. Does the Baha'i accept Wiccans as part of this universal unity?
I'm just trying to gauge how universal Baha'i actually is, how accepting it is of other beliefs.

So human equality, in the case of homosexuality, does Baha'i accept the LGBTQ community?

The only thing I know about the druids are those brown robes ha ha. I don't know pagan/heathens, I've heard a little bit of wiccans. And I heard they're peaceful. If you can, could you tell me a little more about these groups?

The baha'i faith accepts 'everyone'. The thing is you have to let people live how they want to live,
that's between them and God. Baha'u'llah says, the earth is but one country and mankind it's citizens.

 

[paarsurrey]

Your comment is very interesting.

What do you mean by the word 'converse'?

God Himself never talked to anyone, not even the Prophets / Messengers, as a human voice. The Prophets / Messengers are very rare human beings they only appear around about every 1000 years and they have a very special type of inspiration. That inspiration calls them to speak/write divine revelation.

The islamic prophecy of the Mahdi and the return of the Messiah have both been fulfilled by the coming of the Bab: 1844, and Baha'u'llah 1863.

"God Himself never talked to anyone"

One's understanding is incorrect:
[4:165]وَ رُسُلًا قَدۡ قَصَصۡنٰہُمۡ عَلَیۡکَ مِنۡ قَبۡلُ وَ رُسُلًا لَّمۡ نَقۡصُصۡہُمۡ عَلَیۡکَ ؕ وَ کَلَّمَ اللّٰہُ مُوۡسٰی تَکۡلِیۡمًا ﴿۱۶۵﴾ۚ
And We sent some Messengers whom We have already mentioned to thee and some Messengers whom We have not mentioned to thee — and Allah spoke to Moses particularly —
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 4: An-Nisa'

Right, please?

Regards

 

[od19g6]

"God Himself never talked to anyone"

One's understanding is incorrect:
[4:165]وَ رُسُلًا قَدۡ قَصَصۡنٰہُمۡ عَلَیۡکَ مِنۡ قَبۡلُ وَ رُسُلًا لَّمۡ نَقۡصُصۡہُمۡ عَلَیۡکَ ؕ وَ کَلَّمَ اللّٰہُ مُوۡسٰی تَکۡلِیۡمًا ﴿۱۶۵﴾ۚ
And We sent some Messengers whom We have already mentioned to thee and some Messengers whom We have not mentioned to thee — and Allah spoke to Moses particularly —
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 4: An-Nisa'

Right, please?

Regards

Hi paarsurrey.

Baha'u'llah has revealed in this day and age that, we have to be careful not to take the divine scriptures totally literal. This has been a huge mistake that the followers of past revelations has taken the scriptures literally and has kept them from recognizing the next Manifestation that God has sent.

I mentioned that God Himself never talked to anyone in a 'human voice'.

God did 'speak' to the Prophets / Messengers, but He spoke though inspiration to them.

 

[arthra]

The Bahá’í Faith, however, is consciously promoted as not just a spiritual path but a model for future civilization, with laws and organisational structures. Only time will tell which is the model of religion for the twenty first century.

I like the above summation of the article posted by Nakosis. The "model for future civilization" was part of the revelation of Baha'u'llah Who as a prisoner and exile sent letters to the then rulers of Europe and the Middle East. The letters or Tablets as they were called were compiled in a book that is online entitled "Summons of the Lord of Hosts"

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

• Introduction
• Súriy-i-Haykal
  • Pope Pius IX
  • Napoleon III
  • Czar Alexander II
  • Queen Victoria
  • Náṣiri’d-Dín Sháh

Baha'is do encourage inter-faith activities. Locally our Baha'i community has been involved with an Inter-faith Council for years. There is also the Parliament of World Religions that began in 1893 and holds regular meetings internationally.

See:

Parliament of World Religions: When Faiths First Came Together

 

[paarsurrey]

Your comment is very interesting.

What do you mean by the word 'converse'?

God Himself never talked to anyone, not even the Prophets / Messengers, as a human voice. The Prophets / Messengers are very rare human beings they only appear around about every 1000 years and they have a very special type of inspiration. That inspiration calls them to speak/write divine revelation.

The islamic prophecy of the Mahdi and the return of the Messiah have both been fulfilled by the coming of the Bab: 1844, and Baha'u'llah 1863.

"What do you mean by the word 'converse'?"

One may like to read post #119 in another thread which is relevant here also, please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi paarsurrey.
Baha'u'llah has revealed in this day and age that, we have to be careful not to take the divine scriptures totally literal. This has been a huge mistake that the followers of past revelations has taken the scriptures literally and has kept them from recognizing the next Manifestation that God has sent.

I mentioned that God Himself never talked to anyone in a 'human voice'.

God did 'speak' to the Prophets / Messengers, but He spoke though inspiration to them.

Baha'ullah was right about himself only:

1. as he never had any direct Converse from/with G-d.
2. All Bahaullah's books have been, therefore, as told by UHJ* are revealed means written by and authored by Bahaullah and none from G-d.
3. *like "The Kitáb-i-Íqán – The Book of Certitude"
   A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62" ----- The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library
4. And hence it means written by and authored by Bahaullah and not by G-d not even a word of it.

Muhammad did have direct Converse with G-d, literally, and with so many others. Quran is every letter of it, every vowel of it and every dot of it authored by G-d and not by Muhammad. Right, please?

Regards