An odd place to be in.

[kashmir]

This is just my personal perspective, so if it offends someones doctrine, I am sorry for that.
It is what it is to me.

I used to try to reason Biblical scripture to have valid reasons for all the horrible things God seems to command of the people of the time.
I have come to realize that an all loving deity would not approve of the murder of innocent life.
All Holy Books were written by man, not any deity.

I know for a fact that the afterlife is real though.
So atheism based world views is not an option for me.

So where does this leave me?
No clue, but willing to take suggestions, do not bother trying to reason holy books with me because they are wrong, every last one of them.
In my perspective, ancient text is man made and completely full of contradictions and not true.
If you wish to believe them, that is ok for you, but not for me and this is not a debate thread.

 

[LuisDantas]

Pantheism or panentheism?

 

[kashmir]

Pantheism or panentheism?

I am not sure there even is a supreme being.
I am convinced that we have souls that do not expire when our physical body dies.

 

[Windwalker]

So where does this leave me?

As someone wishing to discover what spirituality is for you without others telling what to believe in. With this approach you can discover for yourself what works and what doesn't. Only suggestion I would make is that you try meditation. Nothing like that to open up answers from within yourself.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Buddhism? Agnostic?

:camp:

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You have to look within yourself and sort out what you believe. Go where you're drawn.

 

[kashmir]

As someone wishing to discover what spirituality is for you without others telling what to believe in. With this approach you can discover for yourself what works and what doesn't. Only suggestion I would make is that you try meditation. Nothing like that to open up answers from within yourself.

I completely agree.
I never have let others tell me what to believe, no matter what the issue is, I do listen to suggestions, as not a one of us on this planet knows everything.

Meditation seems like a wonderful idea, if only I could though.
My brain never shuts off, ironically, on CBN last night, I watched a documentary of Japan and its culture, and the part where that one guy smacked the stick when the person showed they were not able to "release all thoughts"...that hit home with me, my brain never stops, I don't even sleep much to be honest.
My body has to completely give out because my brain cant.
Even the most redundant things bounce around in my brain, which keeps me awake,

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I am not sure there even is a supreme being.
I am convinced that we have souls that do not expire when our physical body dies.

Any idea what they do after death or is that as far as your beliefs go?

 

[Windwalker]

Meditation seems like a wonderful idea, if only I could though.
My brain never shuts off, ironically, on CBN last night, I watched a documentary of Japan and its culture, and the part where that one guy smacked the stick when the person showed they were not able to "release all thoughts"...that hit home with me, my brain never stops, I don't even sleep much to be honest.

Not to turn this discussion into one about meditation, but I do have to say something here that may help you. The purpose of meditation is not to stop all thought. That really doesn't happen. What you do though is to quite the discursive mind where you just go chasing off in a stream of thought about this and that. What happens as you still the stream, you become an interested observer of you thoughts that arise and fall. They pass before you like clouds in the sky with you watching them. That is very different than getting caught up in them and swept away down river.

The key to it is to be gentle with yourself, like you were training a puppy to only go on the newspaper. As it runs off, you gently pick it up and put it back on the paper until it goes to the bathroom only there. You don' hit it, scold it, grab its throat and threaten it, or any such thing. And you don't do that to yourself. You are gently training the mind to not run and pee all over anywhere it feels like it. It's mind training, pure and simple.

I hope that helps....

 

[kashmir]

Any idea what they do after death or is that as far as your beliefs go?

The heaven/hell thing makes no sense at this point.
Best I can reason is a different dimension of sorts.

Thank you to all who are replying.
because I view this as very important, frubals to all
If I run out, will give them out when they reset.

 

[Skwim]

This is just my personal perspective, so if it offends someones doctrine, I am sorry for that.
It is what it is to me.

I used to try to reason Biblical scripture to have valid reasons for all the horrible things God seems to command of the people of the time.
I have come to realize that an all loving deity would not approve of the murder of innocent life.
All Holy Books were written by man, not any deity.

I know for a fact that the afterlife is real though.
So atheism based world views is not an option for me.

Atheism doesn't address afterlife, just the existence of god. So even if you don't buy into the existence of god you can still believe in an afterlife. I know of two atheists who do just this.

 

[kashmir]

Not to turn this discussion into one about meditation, but I do have to say something here that may help you. The purpose of meditation is not to stop all thought. That really doesn't happen. What you do though is to quite the discursive mind where you just go chasing off in a stream of thought about this and that. What happens as you still the stream, you become an interested observer of you thoughts that arise and fall. They pass before you like clouds in the sky with you watching them. That is very different than getting caught up in them and swept away down river.

The key to it is to be gentle with yourself, like you were training a puppy to only go on the newspaper. As it runs off, you gently pick it up and put it back on the paper until it goes to the bathroom only there. You don' hit it, scold it, grab its throat and threaten it, or any such thing. And you don't do that to yourself. You are gently training the mind to not run and pee all over anywhere it feels like it. It's mind training, pure and simple.

I hope that helps....

Ohhhh, just when I thought I understood, I had no clue.
So meditation would be to just think about the fact you are meditating and think nothing more?

 

[Windwalker]

Ohhhh, just when I thought I understood, I had no clue.
So meditation would be to just think about the fact you are meditating and think nothing more?

It's a little more than that, but in reality it's not hard to do. You get your mind to cooperate in a way, to quite itself to allow you to simply be present in the moment. Thoughts will arise, but they are not distracting thoughts. They are gentle things that arise which become a point of focus. Often there are strong emotions that follow, such as overwhelming peace, love, joy, and release. It's like those moments where you just pause and look into the night sky, or the sunset, and it overtakes you. You simply let it enter into you, and you lose yourself into it, like falling into the ocean and simply being. It's more that. But if you are busy processing active thoughts, like what this person said and what you're going to say to them, the errands and the schedule you have today, etc, you are missing that which arises in the moment, thinking of the future or the past in a world of thoughts, and not present in your being. You see?

It's the practice of deliberately putting yourself into the path of those moments of peak experience. Training the mind to be still, allows those things to be experienced and seen. Now there are techniques one can use to help in that process, such as appropriate music, chanting, and so forth. What works will be individual, and also changes from one day to the next. The entire exercise is a path of self-discovery and self-knowledge. I can't say enough good things about it. I see it as essential.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

The heaven/hell thing makes no sense at this point.
Best I can reason is a different dimension of sorts.

Thank you to all who are replying.
because I view this as very important, frubals to all
If I run out, will give them out when they reset.

So, agnosticism, possible atheism, with...souls spending eternity in another world?

...can't say I've heard of that. It sounds brilliant but I don't know any religious group that holds to it.

 

[kashmir]

It's a little more than that, but in reality it's not hard to do. You get your mind to cooperate in a way, to quite itself to allow you to simply be present in the moment. Thoughts will arise, but they are not distracting thoughts. They are gentle things that arise which become a point of focus. Often there are strong emotions that follow, such as overwhelming peace, love, joy, and release. It's like those moments where you just pause and look into the night sky, or the sunset, and it overtakes you. You simply let it enter into you, and you lose yourself into it, like falling into the ocean and simply being. It's more that. But if you are busy processing active thoughts, like what this person said and what you're going to say to them, the errands and the schedule you have today, etc, you are missing that which arises in the moment, thinking of the future or the past in a world of thoughts, and not present in your being. You see?

It's the practice of deliberately putting yourself into the path of those moments of peak experience. Training the mind to be still, allows those things to be experienced and seen. Now there are techniques one can use to help in that process, such as appropriate music, chanting, and so forth. What works will be individual, and also changes from one day to the next. The entire exercise is a path of self-discovery and self-knowledge. I can't say enough good things about it. I see it as essential.

I wish I could get to that point, some of us have such an active conscious, it's nearly impossible to turn off.
I have found long ago, to be a huge jokester to minimize the horrors of not being able to shut off the negativity.

So, agnosticism, possible atheism, with...souls spending eternity in another world?

...can't say I've heard of that. It sounds brilliant but I don't know any religious group that holds to it.

Hence my siggy
Just need to figure out who "they" are

 

[Windwalker]

I wish I could get to that point, some of us have such an active conscious, it's nearly impossible to turn off.

Actually, we all do. I don't believe there are those "worse" than others. In fact, until you enter into meditation, you really have no idea just how much noise is actually going on in there! Trust me, I am a processing machine constantly analyzing things. Hard time falling asleep at night with the active mind, and so on. I could tell stories. But learning the mind like this makes all the difference in the world. There's a quote from the Buddha that says this so perfectly:

"More than those who hate you, more than all your enemies, an undisciplined mind does greater harm."

There is no reason anyone is beyond disciplining the mind. It's not something impossible, or even that terribly hard. It's only hard, because like an addict hooked on heroin we tell ourselves "It can't be done!"

I have found long ago, to be a huge jokester to minimize the horrors of not being able to shut off the negativity.

You are definitely a candidate to learn meditation! If I can, anyone can.

 

[kashmir]

Actually, we all do. I don't believe there are those "worse" than others. In fact, until you enter into meditation, you really have no idea just how much noise is actually going on in there! Trust me, I am a processing machine constantly analyzing things. Hard time falling asleep at night with the active mind, and so on. I could tell stories. But learning the mind like this makes all the difference in the world. There's a quote from the Buddha that says this so perfectly:

"More than those who hate you, more than all your enemies, an undisciplined mind does greater harm."

There is no reason anyone is beyond disciplining the mind. It's not something impossible, or even that terribly hard. It's only hard, because like an addict hooked on heroin we tell ourselves "It can't be done!"


You are definitely a candidate to learn meditation! If I can, anyone can.

Refreshing to know that and thanks

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Hence my siggy
Just need to figure out who "they" are

Well, it sounds like Spiritism, minus God.

And to be honest the role of God in those five books are rather flimsy anyway.

 

[Sha'irullah]

This is just my personal perspective, so if it offends someones doctrine, I am sorry for that.
It is what it is to me.

I used to try to reason Biblical scripture to have valid reasons for all the horrible things God seems to command of the people of the time.

I used to do similar when I was young but stopped when I was 14. I was very knowledgeable about mythology and tried reasoning how the Bible copies from Greek myths so much and then I began learning about Semitic ones and that just cut it for me as I could not reconcile any of it.

I have come to realize that an all loving deity would not approve of the murder of innocent life.
All Holy Books were written by man, not any deity.

Took me a bit longer to realize this as I assumed that God was not omnipotent without knowing it. Even more surprisingly was that by abandonment of Christianity led me to Islam which is far mroe rigid but it allowed me to emotionally cling on to the Biblical characters I grew up with such as Noah/Nuh and Abraham/Ibrahim.

I know for a fact that the afterlife is real though.
So atheism based world views is not an option for me.

Now I will heavily disagree with you on the afterlife though but atheism to me over the last few months has left a bitter taste in my mouth once I realized that it promotes so much negative behavior in people. The issue is that I do not know where it stems from but I have officially backed away from atheists altogether due to this.

So where does this leave me?
No clue, but willing to take suggestions, do not bother trying to reason holy books with me because they are wrong, every last one of them.

Have you tried Deism? The theology of reason and its application to god? I was a Deist for a while after I left religion and explored Hinduism, Satanism, and Paganism.

In my perspective, ancient text is man made and completely full of contradictions and not true.
If you wish to believe them, that is ok for you, but not for me and this is not a debate thread.

Be careful here buddy. Many religious texts although man made have great literary content such as the Qur'an and Tawrat which I find to be excellent literature and inspiring. They are myths and meant to be applied to real life but they do not come from real life events. They are cognitive realities or worlds in themselves. Extract from them what you please and learn to disregard the religions associated with them. I for example find the Qur'an very beneficial for Semitic Paganism and Luciferian Satanism because of its natural theological references and lack of miracles.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I am not sure there even is a supreme being.
I am convinced that we have souls that do not expire when our physical body dies.

You really sound like a Buddhist to some extent. You are definitely non-theistic I will say. I recommend you look into non-theistic Paganism and Daoism.