An Unscientific Theory On Religion Forums

[Earthling]

No. Rather, I know lovely atheists in person and a bunch of bitter ones who hound religious forums. Why don't they hobnob at "The Thinking Atheist" instead?

This is absolutely true. And speaking from personal experience, the idiot atheists over there are, generally speaking, not at all tolerant of anyone who disagrees with them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You keep ignoring facts. The FACTS are that officially atheistic (as in, religion is against the law) governments have killed more people in the first half of the twentieth century than theocracies have killed in the entire written history of the world. That's fact. Or at least, it's certainly the well researched opinion of the man who coined the word 'democide."

Freedom, Democide, War: Home Page

Another fact: there HAVE been theocracies that were not especially murderous. There has never been a country in which all religion was made illegal that was NOT murderous. Not even one, beginning with the "Reign of Terror" during the French Revolution (though short lived and not complete, the attempt to replace Christianity and everything else with the 'cult of reason' got particularly nasty).

My point here is simple; yes, people can and do use religion to excuse killing. Getting rid of religion doesn't get rid of the killing. People simply use different excuses, and the one excuse religious killers do NOT use is "get rid of all religion in the name of reason!"

And THAT excuse has been used quite effectively over the last hundred or so years, I'd say that 'in the name of God" and "get rid of religion!" cancel each other out as 'reasons for violence," and certainly those who have been killing in the name of reason, or because they don't like religion, have been a great deal better at killing people than the religious have in at least the last two thousand years.

Shoot, they've been better at killing people than the sum total of government sanctioned mass murderers have been in the last two thousand years, 'in the name of God' or not.

That's not, as I have also written, because of 'atheism.' It's because people in power will do what people in power can do, which is pretty much anything they want. They justify their actions to themselves, and while theists can, and have, twisted their religions to justify killing people, they do have to manipulate an already existing belief, with priests that also have power and might actually restrain the leader, if only slightly.

Atheistic leaders don't have ANY sort of brake. No higher power to which they have to report. None that they have to make seem is on their side. They are utterly free to do anything they want, and whenever a leader was able to make religion against the law, mass murders..democide...happened. Every time.

I didn't come to this conclusion because I am biased towards a specific religion. I came to this conclusion because I saw the research and the sheer numbers...and who did the killing. My opinions here are data driven.

It doesn't matter much, it seems, WHAT religion is in play; it's better to have one, pretty much any one, than not to have one. Better still, there should be many of them. Even if they are entirely imaginary and false. It's better to believe that one must answer to something 'higher' to which one is responsible for one's actions than to figure that one is free to do anything one wants without personal consequence.

Secular humanism is atheist...but there is a 'higher power' to answer to for them; the human race as a whole. Secular humanists don't tend to be mass murderers. People like Mao, Stalin, et. al were not secular humanists.

But their personal philosophies were certainly atheistic. They had nobody. and Nobody, to whom they had to answer.

TLDR. But I did scan the highly biased website. It loses all credibility when it tries to count known religious based deaths as "Democide".

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is absolutely true. And speaking from personal experience, the idiot atheists over there are, generally speaking, not at all tolerant of anyone who disagrees with them.

Really? Calling people that are more than likely superior in intelligence than you "idiots". When I call someone, like Berlinski, an idiot I can support my claim. Can you support your claim?

 

[Cacotopia]

You think if theocracies then had the weapons of the 20th century we would even be here?

They would nuke the planet with holy cleansing nuclear fire.

 

[Cacotopia]

No kidding there were more people killed recently than back then, A there are more people. B the destructive power of the last 100 years is INCOMPARABLE to 1000 let alone 2000 years ago.

It's a ridiculous statement attempting to put side to side, slingshots, arrows, spears and swords against machine guns, thermonuclear warfare, tanks, and aerial warfare.

Did you know 90% of shark attacks happen close to the shore?

Yeah....that's where the people are.

 

[Earthling]

Really? Calling people that are more than likely superior in intelligence than you "idiots". When I call someone, like Berlinski, an idiot I can support my claim. Can you support your claim?

Well, at least finally from you there is an honest straight forward response. I think I might be breaking through your wall of defense.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

You are missing the point. Even if the steel was bent where the plane impacted it stall had many floors where the steel wouldn't have been touched by fire. The firemen and police officers nearby hear explosions on each floor as towers 1 and 2 collapsed. The said it was like a demolition. Video shows beams being thrown out from the buildings.

But they could say something completely different tomorrow, and science is always wrong, according to you. So why do you believe this?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, at least finally from you there is an honest straight forward response. I think I might be breaking through your wall of defense.

All of my posts are honest and straight forward. You should work on your own. As usual when a theist accusers others here it appears that you were projecting your flaws upon others.

Did you forget that I told you if you brought up Berlinski's arguments I could show you how they are idiotic and dishonest? That offer is still open.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are missing the point. Even if the steel was bent where the plane impacted it stall had many floors where the steel wouldn't have been touched by fire. The firemen and police officers nearby hear explosions on each floor as towers 1 and 2 collapsed. The said it was like a demolition. Video shows beams being thrown out from the buildings.

You can ask a blacksmith whatever you want, but I would also recommend talking to an engineer or architect.

Like Richard Gage, a San Francisco Bay area architect who founded Architects for 911 Truth

"In particular, Gage argues that the buildings of the World Trade Center could not have collapsed at the speed that has been observed without tearing apart several columns of their structures with the help of explosives.[31] To support its position, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth points to the "free fall" acceleration of 7 WTC during part of the collapse,[45] to "lateral ejection of steel," and to "mid-air pulverization of concrete."[29] Richard Gage also said that the absence of "large gradual deformations" associated with the collapse would indicate that the buildings have been destroyed by controlled demolition.[46] That the three buildings of the World Trade Center "fell through what should have been the path of greatest resistance" would, according to the organization, require "precisely timed removal of critical columns, which office fires cannot accomplish".[45] As the mass of the top of the North Tower had been blown outward during the collapse, there was "nothing left to drive this building to the ground," Gage says.[47]The evidence of the use of directed energy weapons is being considered and reviewed by the panel.[citation needed]

Gage maintains that the "sudden and spontaneous" collapse of the towers would have been impossible without a controlled demolition, that pools of molten iron found in the debris of the buildings were evidence of the existence of thermite,[48] and that researchers had found unignited nano-thermite in the dust produced by the collapse of the World Trade Center."

Wikipedia

Loud noises are not necessarily explosions. There were no explosions of the sort that one would hear at a building demolition. There is a reason the the Troofers have very very few, if any, demolition experts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, the Holocaust really happened.

 

[Earthling]

Yes, the Holocaust really happened.

From the Jewish World Almanac

Jewish world population 1933: 15,315,859
Jewish world population 1938: 15,748,091
Jewish world population 1948: 15,753,638

I'm not that good at math, but I'm not stupid.

Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews, he wanted them to get out of Germany before they nearly destroyed it like they had Russia.

 

[ecco]

My original statement included in the videos, one of which you mentioned, was that a reporter from the BBC reported the building as having collapsed 20 minutes before it did. That, I concluded, could have been an error on the part of the reporter. That was the first video.

If this video did nothing to corroborate your theory, why did you post it? I watched it and saw it did nothing to support your argument. Why would I waste more of my time watching another video?

I then explained...

If all of that is corroborating evidence for you to start at least a debate, rather than just disagreeing with me, then I don't know what I can tell you.

See above.

 

[ecco]

I think you are missing the point here entirely.

Of the 1000's of different bible printed how can you be certain the version you are reading is the correct one? You could perhaps study ancient greek and then translate it from the Rosetta Stone. Then you would have an original copy, a copy that is unedited by even the council of Nicea.

I think you have missed and continue to miss the point of my original comment regarding bibles...

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha's profile states he is a Bible Believer. From that I assumed, incorrectly it turns out, that he is a Christian. I didn't and don't think that the word "bible" is attributed to scripture of any religion other than Christianity.

I am aware that there are, and have been throughout history, many versions of the "bible". I frankly don't care which is or may be closer to the original (whatever that is) and it has nothing to do with my comments to RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha.

 

[Subduction Zone]

From the Jewish World Almanac

Jewish world population 1933: 15,315,859
Jewish world population 1938: 15,748,091
Jewish world population 1948: 15,753,638

I'm not that good at math, but I'm not stupid.

Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews, he wanted them to get out of Germany before they nearly destroyed it like they had Russia.

That is debatable. There is no such thing as the "Jewish World Almanac". I found the source of your claim, it comes from an errant Senate Judiciary Report from 1950 that got the wrong figure from the World Almanac:

Holocaust Denial | My Jewish Learning

"Holocaust denial proponents point to the World Almanac for proof. The 1940 edition listed the world’s Jewish population at 15,319,359. By the 1949 edition, deniers assert, that figure is listed as 15,713,638. How could six million, over one-third of all Jews in the world, be murdered and the population increase?

Historians immediately point out that the 1949 World Almanac does not list that figure for the world Jewish population. Instead, the increased number was taken from an erroneous Senate Judiciary Committee report in 1950. Anybody looking in the 1949 World Almanac would instead see the figure of 11,266,600, along with a revision of the 1939 population upwards to more than 16-and-a-half million."

Your "research" appears to be only with those that support your prejudices. That is not how proper research is done.

 

[ecco]

And THAT is simply replacing one reason for hatred and killing for another, and frankly?

Replacing is not the same as removing.
List x number of reasons to do something. Remove reason abc. You now have x-1 reasons. No matter how many other reasons you add, if abc is gone, that is one less reason.

 

[Subduction Zone]

LOL!! Other Holocaust deniers now deal with the errant claim of populations in the World Almanac by claiming "the Jews did it":

Google Groups

 

[ecco]

If (theism) simply didn't exist, there wouldn't be any atheism

If pignanism didn't exist there would be no pignanists and there would be no apignanism nor any apignanism.


What's your point?

 

[Subduction Zone]

If pignanism didn't exist there would be no pignanists and there would be no apignanism nor any apignanism.


What's your point?

Why the hate for an insignificant French town?

http://www.map-france.com/Pignan-34570/

 

[SkepticThinker]

From the Jewish World Almanac

Jewish world population 1933: 15,315,859
Jewish world population 1938: 15,748,091
Jewish world population 1948: 15,753,638

I'm not that good at math, but I'm not stupid.

Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews, he wanted them to get out of Germany before they nearly destroyed it like they had Russia.

I have spoken to numerous people that lived through the Holocaust. I've read several books by people who lived through it. They could all show you the ID numbers that were tattooed on their arms. The concentration camps are still standing today. Those camps were liberated by allied soldiers who have told us of the horrors they saw there. There are endless photographs of victims and survivors. It happened.

I think the problem here is that you're eating up too many of these YouTube conspiracy theories.

The numbers you have cited do not appear to be accurate.
Holocaust denial: The World Almanac Gambit
The continuing decline of Europe’s Jewish population
Jewish Population of Europe in 1933: Population Data by Country
Jewish Population of Europe in 1945

 

[Earthling]

I have spoken to numerous people that lived through the Holocaust. I've read several books by people who lived through it. They could all show you the ID numbers that were tattooed on their arms. The concentration camps are still standing today. Those camps were liberated by allied soldiers who have told us of the horrors they saw there. There are endless photographs of victims and survivors. It happened.

I think the problem here is that you're eating up too many of these YouTube conspiracy theories.

The numbers you have cited do not appear to be accurate.
Holocaust denial: The World Almanac Gambit
The continuing decline of Europe’s Jewish population
Jewish Population of Europe in 1933: Population Data by Country
Jewish Population of Europe in 1945

I think that this subject has gone on long enough here, it's off topic and distracting, but I do think it is an important subject. Would you mind having it in one of the history forums here?