Ancient flood stories from many parts of the world

[Zoe Doidge]

How do you know what sort of physical evidence a global flood would leave behind? Geologists have found evidence (marine fossils) that mountain ranges were once under water.

This is explained at least equally well by plate tectonics. Difference is, we know plate tectonics happened and it continues to do so.

There is plenty of water on earth today to inundate the land masses.

Actually there isn't, at all. 97% of the worlds water is already in the oceans. The remaining water amounts to around 39,000,000,000,000,000 M^3, enough to raise the average global water level by around 76.29M. It'd certainly be a major flood if that happened, but nowhere near on the scale of Noah's Ark.

A sudden, rapid climate change occurred in the past. Large numbers of mammals were killed and then quick frozen.

This is equally well explained by an ice age that doesn't involve a flood at all.

 

[Looncall]

How do you know what sort of physical evidence a global flood would leave behind?
Geologists have found evidence (marine fossils) that mountain ranges were once under water. There is plenty of water on earth today to inundate the land masses. A sudden, rapid climate change occurred in the past. Large numbers of mammals were killed and then quick frozen. Further, we have the testimony of reliable witnesses to the Flood, most notably, Jesus Christ. Was Jesus being childish when he pointed to the global Flood as a warning for people today? (Matthew 24:37-39) I think not.

We can examine the effects of recent floods, and of ancient ones preserved in rocks. In any case, the imagined Noachian flood is supposed to be quite recent. Its effects should show up in the soil in your back yard if you dig down a bit, to say nothing of ancient societies that lived through it undisturbed.

Jesus, if he existed and if the bible does indeed record his sayings, could quite effectively have referred to a myth known to his audience. Your argument is inane.

I stand by my view that it is silly to suppose that the Noachian flood actually happened.

 

[outhouse]

We would expect a global Deluge to remain in mankind's collective memory. We would also expect the truth to be obscured by embellishments and storytelling as time passed and national groups engaged in false religion. I believe these Flood legends confirm the fact that such an event did,indeed, occur.

that is false

mankind does not carry collective memory to long, or as stated man would be telling of a time whn the earth was covered by ice. but we dont get that, and its factual, not myth

As well, this collective memory does not nor has ever in mans existance pointed to one event at one time.



You fail when you realize it floods yearly, as well as tsunamis, hurricanes, ect ect all over the world.


just because ancient men places mythology around natural events due to their ignorance, does not give attibutation to suoernatural events any credibility at all

 

[Man of Faith]

Something that has not yet been mentioned is that a global flood would leave physical evidence. No such evidence has been found, therefore there was no such flood, regardless of what old myths one can dig up.

Your Google must be broken.

 

[Valjean]

Yes, there are flood legends, earthquake legends, rain-of-fire legends, all sorts of disaster legends. They make good drama around the campfire. People can relate to them -- disasters of one kind or another have always been part of the human experience.

But not all cultures have great flood stories. Many do, of course, as great floods have occurred at various times all over the world. But a single, universal, global flood? -- zero evidence, and many facts militate against it.

 

[fallingblood]

I think most people are missing the point of the flood stories. I think most agree here that they aren't factual. They are mythological. There is no evidence there was one that destroyed the whole world. Great. But then what? Why would all of these places make such grand flood stories? And it isn't because they all experienced floods in their lives, or remembered a time, or something like that. We see flood stories in places that such floods don't happen.

For instance, the Biblical flood story. In the area that the Israelites lived, they really didn't have massive floods. Sure, one can claim they borrowed the story, but why? Why incorporate a flood story into a belief, when they don't experience floods?

Because they are meant to be myth. They are, like all myths, meant to portray a truth. It isn't a historical truth, but a truth none the less. I think most are missing that, and thus, missing the meaning of the stories. And I think that is sad, as the meaning can be very beautiful.

 

[outhouse]

while there is beauty in some of the allegory, sadly many theist have ruined the beauty with a literal translation.

"Literally" it is a terrifiying story of a petty murderous deity, worse then the devil has even been accused of doing, yet freely admitted by the deity in charge, and all the real meaning has been lost.


I would have no problem with the beauty of the allegorical legend if ground rules in reality were obeyed

 

[rusra02]

This is explained at least equally well by plate tectonics. Difference is, we know plate tectonics happened and it continues to do so.



Actually there isn't, at all. 97% of the worlds water is already in the oceans. The remaining water amounts to around 39,000,000,000,000,000 M^3, enough to raise the average global water level by around 76.29M. It'd certainly be a major flood if that happened, but nowhere near on the scale of Noah's Ark.



This is equally well explained by an ice age that doesn't involve a flood at all.

I was including the water in the oceans, since much of this water apparently fell during the Deluge. An ice age would not occur so rapidly as to leave mammals quick frozen. I do suspect that the Flood caused earth's plates to shift, perhaps dramatically, causing tremendous geologic changes. (Psalm 104:8,9)

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[ImmortalFlame]

An ice age would not occur so rapidly as to leave mammals quick frozen.

What do you mean? What suggests that animals were "quickly" frozen?

I do suspect that the Flood caused earth's plates to shift, perhaps dramatically, causing tremendous geologic changes.

What evidence is there that the shift of the earth's tectonic plates was in any way caused by global flooding?

 

[rusra02]

We can examine the effects of recent floods, and of ancient ones preserved in rocks. In any case, the imagined Noachian flood is supposed to be quite recent. Its effects should show up in the soil in your back yard if you dig down a bit, to say nothing of ancient societies that lived through it undisturbed.

Jesus, if he existed and if the bible does indeed record his sayings, could quite effectively have referred to a myth known to his audience. Your argument is inane.

I stand by my view that it is silly to suppose that the Noachian flood actually happened.

You are comparing local floods with a global cataclysm? That is like comparing a fan to an f5 tornado. If we 'dig down a bit', what would you expect us to find?
Supposed ancient societies that lived through the Flood are the product of faulty dating methods. And if Jesus used a myth to warn his followers of the end of the system of things, what impact would that have had? To the contrary, the Bible consistently portrays Noah as an historical figure, a man from whom all people alive today have descended, and to whom we are related. Abraham may have been personally acquainted with Shem, one of Noah's sons, since their lives overlapped about 150 years. I don't think the believing the Flood occurred is silly at all.

 

[Zoe Doidge]

I was including the water in the oceans, since much of this water apparently fell during the Deluge.

Yes, and the water in the oceans comes to a particular height. Adding what water remains outside of the oceans (groundwater, ice caps etc) would be nowhere near sufficient to cover even a small mountain.

An ice age would not occur so rapidly as to leave mammals quick frozen.

They're not quick frozen, they're just frozen.

I do suspect that the Flood caused earth's plates to shift, perhaps dramatically, causing tremendous geologic changes. (Psalm 104:8,9)

It is self evidence that the amount of water in the world is not sufficient to do this, because if it was it would be happening now.

 

[rusra02]

that is false

mankind does not carry collective memory to long, or as stated man would be telling of a time whn the earth was covered by ice. but we dont get that, and its factual, not myth

As well, this collective memory does not nor has ever in mans existance pointed to one event at one time.



You fail when you realize it floods yearly, as well as tsunamis, hurricanes, ect ect all over the world.


just because ancient men places mythology around natural events due to their ignorance, does not give attibutation to suoernatural events any credibility at all

You assert that because there is no collective remembrance of an ice age, this proves collective memory does not exist. It strongly suggests, rather, that humans did not live through an ice age. I don't fail to realize floods occur.

 

[rusra02]

I think most people are missing the point of the flood stories. I think most agree here that they aren't factual. They are mythological. There is no evidence there was one that destroyed the whole world. Great. But then what? Why would all of these places make such grand flood stories? And it isn't because they all experienced floods in their lives, or remembered a time, or something like that. We see flood stories in places that such floods don't happen.

For instance, the Biblical flood story. In the area that the Israelites lived, they really didn't have massive floods. Sure, one can claim they borrowed the story, but why? Why incorporate a flood story into a belief, when they don't experience floods?

Because they are meant to be myth. They are, like all myths, meant to portray a truth. It isn't a historical truth, but a truth none the less. I think most are missing that, and thus, missing the meaning of the stories. And I think that is sad, as the meaning can be very beautiful.

"Why incorporate a flood story into a belief, when they don't experience floods?" Uh, because a global Flood did occur and is remembered.
Jesus Christ, whom you claim to follow, disagrees with you that the Flood of Noah's day is a myth. He taught it to be a historical reality, and so did his true followers. (2 Peter 3:5-7)

 

[Thief]

I think most people are missing the point of the flood stories. I think most agree here that they aren't factual. They are mythological. There is no evidence there was one that destroyed the whole world. Great. But then what? Why would all of these places make such grand flood stories? And it isn't because they all experienced floods in their lives, or remembered a time, or something like that. We see flood stories in places that such floods don't happen.

For instance, the Biblical flood story. In the area that the Israelites lived, they really didn't have massive floods. Sure, one can claim they borrowed the story, but why? Why incorporate a flood story into a belief, when they don't experience floods?

Because they are meant to be myth. They are, like all myths, meant to portray a truth. It isn't a historical truth, but a truth none the less. I think most are missing that, and thus, missing the meaning of the stories. And I think that is sad, as the meaning can be very beautiful.

Such stories are passed from one generation to another.
and yes...there could be embellishment.

But is your post to include the notion the event did not happen ...at all?
Then Grandpa Noah was telling someone a crazy man story?

Or would you say Noah never lived?

 

[rusra02]

Yes, and the water in the oceans comes to a particular height. Adding what water remains outside of the oceans (groundwater, ice caps etc) would be nowhere near sufficient to cover even a small mountain.



They're not quick frozen, they're just frozen.



It is self evidence that the amount of water in the world is not sufficient to do this, because if it was it would be happening now.

“Many of these animals were perfectly fresh, whole and undamaged, and still either standing or at least kneeling upright. . . . Here is a really shocking—to our previous way of thinking—picture. Vast herds of enormous, well-fed beasts not specifically designed for extreme cold, placidly feeding in sunny pastures . . . Suddenly they were all killed without any visible sign of violence and before they could so much as swallow a last mouthful of food, and then were quick-frozen so rapidly that every cell of their bodies is perfectly preserved.” (Saturday Evening Post, 1/16/1960 pp.82,83)


The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “The average depth of all the seas has been estimated at 3,790 metres (12,430 feet), a figure considerably larger than that of the average elevation of the land above the sea level, which is 840 metres (2,760 feet). If the average depth is multiplied by its respective surface area, the volume of the World Ocean is 11 times the volume of the land above sea level.” So, if everything were leveled out—if the mountains were flattened and the deep sea basins filled in—the sea would cover the whole earth to a depth of thousands of meters. (quote from gm pp.111-112.) The Flood changed the face of the earth dramatically, as previously mentioned. Tall mountains were raised and sea beds lowered by thousands of metres, just as the Bible says. (Psalm 104:8,9) If the pre-Flood 'tall mountains' were a few thousand feet high, they would have easily been covered by the Flood waters.

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[Zoe Doidge]

“Many of these animals were perfectly fresh, whole and undamaged, and still either standing or at least kneeling upright. . . . Here is a really shocking—to our previous way of thinking—picture. Vast herds of enormous, well-fed beasts not specifically designed for extreme cold, placidly feeding in sunny pastures . . . Suddenly they were all killed without any visible sign of violence and before they could so much as swallow a last mouthful of food, and then were quick-frozen so rapidly that every cell of their bodies is perfectly preserved.” (Saturday Evening Post, 1/16/1960 pp.82,83)

And in the following paragraphs, it states why they could not have been quick frozen.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “The average depth of all the seas has been estimated at 3,790 metres (12,430 feet), a figure considerably larger than that of the average elevation of the land above the sea level, which is 840 metres (2,760 feet). If the average depth is multiplied by its respective surface area, the volume of the World Ocean is 11 times the volume of the land above sea level.” So, if everything were leveled out—if the mountains were flattened and the deep sea basins filled in—the sea would cover the whole earth to a depth of thousands of meters. (quote from gm pp.111-112.) The Flood changed the face of the earth dramatically, as previously mentioned. Tall mountains were raised and sea beds lowered by thousands of metres, just as the Bible says. (Psalm 104:8,9) If the pre-Flood 'tall mountains' were a few thousand feet high, they would have easily been covered by the Flood waters.

Yep, it’d be a height of 2,635M, putting about 25,849,020.49N of weight per square meter on the planet. Even now, there are parts of the ocean far deeper than that though. That weight, even several times that weight, just doesn’t cause any effects like you’re describing.

 

[siweLSC]

Are you serious?

Yes I am serious. Is that or is that not a dinosaur?

 

[siweLSC]

Such stories are passed from one generation to another.
and yes...there could be embellishment.

But is your post to include the notion the event did not happen ...at all?
Then Grandpa Noah was telling someone a crazy man story?

Or would you say Noah never lived?

If it was just a made up story by Grandpa Noah, then I don't see how the idea could possibly infiltrate virtually every culture in the world.
http://creation.com/do-rivers-erode-through-mountains

 

[outhouse]

You assert that because there is no collective remembrance of an ice age, this proves collective memory does not exist. It strongly suggests, rather, that humans did not live through an ice age. I don't fail to realize floods occur.

well then

how do you explain the frozen men found in the ice that has melted from this time period?

 

[CG Didymus]

We would expect a global Deluge to remain in mankind's collective memory. We would also expect the truth to be obscured by embellishments and storytelling as time passed and national groups engaged in false religion. I believe these Flood legends confirm the fact that such an event did,indeed, occur.

Two of your ideas really interest me. The first is collective memory. When the accuracy of the Bible is questioned, I've heard some people say that the Hebrews passed down exactly what happened, that God even helped them remember the stories perfectly. So out of Noah's kids and grand kids, which ones got the story messed up?
And this gets me to the other idea "embellishment." So all but one version of the story got embellished?
I took a quick look at the flood story link. At the top was mentioned the Hopi's. So I was thinking that for the Bible to be exactly true, and not embellished, then I have to believe one of Noah's great great grandchildren took his family to North America and built a mud-brick house atop a mesa in Arizona. His kids ask, "Daddy, tell us the story of how we got here." He embellishes the story so much that he never mentions great great grand dad Noah? And, he never mentions the journey from the Middle East to North America? I don't think so.
Besides, a world-wide flood is over-kill. With laser like accuracy, God could have zapped only the bad people and the nephilim and left the poor animals alone.