Did it say that? It said 'Nazarene'. Also, you said there was no such prophecy, even though Genesis 49:26 has Jacob prophesying of a man(Joseph) whose separation from his own in many ways paralleled the ministry of Jesus - John 1:11.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
And He Shall Be Called a Nazarene
- Thread starter IndigoChild5559
- Start date
involve is the opposite of evolve, involution is the opposite of evolution
mystery cults have been found in all cultures, mystics obviously. they were already well established in the 1st century. Josephus wrote about them
the following is from wikipedia
According to Joseph Lightfoot, the Church Father Epiphanius (writing in the 4th century CE) seems to make a distinction between two main groups within the Essenes:[27] "Of those that came before his [Elxai, an Ossaean prophet] time and during it, the Ossaeans and the Nasaraeans."Part 18[54] Epiphanius describes each group as following:
The Nasaraean—they were Jews by nationality—originally from Gileaditis, Bashanitis and the Transjordan... They acknowledged Moses and believed that he had received laws—not this law, however, but some other. And so, they were Jews who kept all the Jewish observances, but they would not offer sacrifice or eat meat. They considered it unlawful to eat meat or make sacrifices with it. They claim that these Books are fictions, and that none of these customs were instituted by the fathers. This was the difference between the Nasaraean and the others...[55]
After this Nasaraean sect in turn comes another closely connected with them, called the Ossaeans. These are Jews like the former... originally came from Nabataea, Ituraea, Moabitis, and Arielis, the lands beyond the basin of what sacred scripture called the Salt Sea... Though it is different from the other six of these seven sects, it causes schism only by forbidding the books of Moses like the Nasaraean.[54]
The Nasaraeans or Nasoraeans may be the same as the Mandaeans of today. Epiphanius says (29:6) that they existed before Christ. That is questioned by some, but others accept the pre-Christian origin of this group.[56]
Last edited:
a modern day group associated with the ancient naassene are the nasrani, gnostics
Saint Thomas Christians - Wikipedia
Saint Thomas Christians - Wikipedia
The St. Thomas Christians of India are not Gnostics or "modern" at all. Did you even read the link you posted? They're just an ancient Christian community who traces their founding back to St. Thomas the Apostle's missionary activity in India. They are orthodox Christians (Orthodox, Catholic, even some Protestants) that have their own customs.
they were force converted to catholicism through portuguese invasion. the gospel of thomas and many of the nt books, along with other non canonical books are considered gnostic.
do your homework
BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: In southern India, in Kerala, there are millions of people known as St. Thomas Christians. Their ancestors, many believe, were converted by the Apostle Thomas in the first century. Portuguese missionaries later destroyed most of the ancient church writings, replacing them with their own. But now Benedictine monks at St. John’s Abbey in Minnesota are rediscovering the surviving texts. Fred de Sam Lazaro has a close-up view of all this. He is both our correspondent and journalist-in-residence at St. John’s University.
they are called christian malabaar nasrani for a reason
They have nothing to do with the Gospel of Thomas or Gnostic movements. St. Thomas was an Apostle and the Apostles are said to have traveled and spread Christianity after Christ sent them to do so. He is just viewed as the founder of their community. Has nothing to do with that extra-biblical book. You don't know what you're talking about. You haven't even read the Wikipedia article, obviously.
The Portuguese were probably trying to enforce Catholicism on them as they were mostly Orthodox (following the Syriac Rite). Catholics treated Orthodox Christians very badly at times. To this day, there's still a tension and a feeling of anger and distrust towards Catholics from the Orthodox.
OPHITES:
By: Kaufmann Kohler, Samuel Krauss
Table of Contents
Collective name for several Gnostic sects which regarded the serpent (Greek, ὄφις; Hebrew, "naḥash"; hence called also Naasseni) as the image of creative wisdom. Such sects existed within Judaism probably even before the rise of Christianity; and as there were Ophites who rejected the Gospels it would be proper to make a distinction between Jewish, Christian, and anti-Christian Ophites were not the sources, which are all post-Christian, too confused to admit of even approximately positive discriminations.
unfortunately you're wrong. you've obviously had a cursory introduction. there is historical proof going all the way back to the 1st century.
Syrian Christians (Saint Thomas Christians) – St. Thomas Syro Malabar Mission Hartford
- Saint Thomas Christians history, traditions, heritage and culture.
Nasoraean Mandaeans[edit]
See also: Nazarene (title) § Mandaeans
Those few who are initiated into the secrets of the Mandaean religion are called Naṣuraiia or Nasoraeans/Nasaraeans. The Mandaeans claim to have fled Jerusalem before its fall in 70 CE due to persecution by Jews. The word Naṣuraiia may come from the root n-ṣ-r meaning "to keep" since although they reject the Mosaic Law they consider themselves to be keepers of Gnosis. Epiphanius mentions a group called Nasaraeans (Νασαραίοι, Part 19 of the Panarion), distinguished from the "Nazoraioi"(Part 29). According to Joseph Lightfoot, Epiphanius also makes a distinction between the Ossaeans and the Nasaraeans,[28] the two main groups within the Essenes:[29]
The Nasaraeans ‐ they were Jews by nationality ‐ originally from Gileaditis, Bashanitis and the Transjordon ... They acknowledged Moses and believed that he had received laws ‐ not this law, however, but some other. And so, they were Jews who kept all the Jewish observances, but they would not offer sacrifice or eat meat. They considered it unlawful to eat meat or make sacrifices with it. They claim that these Books are fictions, and that none of these customs were instituted by the fathers. This was the difference between the Nasaraeans and the others.
— Epiphanius' Panarion 1:18
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I don't know what Bible dictionary you are using, but the word for Nazarite in Hebrew is נזרית and the word for Nazarene is נוֹצְרִי. As you can see, they are completely different words. In Greek, the word for Nazarite is ναζωρίτης, and the word for Nazarene is Ναζωραίος. As you can see from the endings, they are also completely different words. In English, too, they are different words.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Oh please. Its a way of squirming out of the obvious.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Nah. Firstly, there are not hundreds of prophecies. There really are just a few, and recognizing him means looking to see if the person fulfills ALL of them. There will be no debate. All the world will acknowledge him as the messiah.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It is the common consensus of those who accept the canon.
Your problem is that you're mixing several unrelated groups together. You still haven't bothered to even read the Wikipedia article you yourself posted. I don't think you're interested in honest discussion. The Indian Christians have nothing at all to do with Gnostics, Ophites, Manichaeism, etc. I am knowledgeable about all of those religions.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I've dealt with this in more detail in other posts, but the long and short of it is that only the written prophets in the canon have those messages that are for more than their day. Thus the prophecy Matthew refers to must be found in one of them.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
A Nazarene is someone who comes from Nazareth, like I lived in Los Angeles so I am an Angelino.
Joseph has nothing to do with the messiah being from Nazareth.
Teritos
Active Member
I am not talking about the spelling, but about the meaning. Both words have the same definition.
Nazarene means "a separated one" according to the Greek lexicon, see Strongs's #3480: Nazoraios - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools
And according to the Hebrew Strong's Nazarite means "separate, i.e. consecrated" ,see Strongs's #5139: naziyr - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
I accept the cannon - but I did not participate in any consensus.
And you believe that a "common consensus" has the authority to decide what should be included in scripture?
How do you know that?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, they absolutely do not have the same meaning. A Nazarite is a Jew that has taken on voluntary vows). A Nazarene is someone from Nazareth, or, related, a word meaning a Christian (a follower of the Nazarene).
I checked your Strong's sites. Both sites (including the Nazarene sites) and both sites list Nazarite as meaning separated/consecrated. Your site on Nazarene does NOT say that Nazarene means separated -- read it more closely.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Our rabbinical authorities decided the Jewish canon. Most scholars say it was closed at the council of Jamnia. However, much of it was accepted long before that. The Torah was the first to be accepted, followed by the Prophets. It was the Writings that were the final addition. If I am not mistaken, Esther and Daniel were the very last to be added.
The Christian New Testament canon was determined by the bishops of the church in the 4th century.