Angelogical/Demonological Fallacies

[zombieharlot]

Well... you'd be surprised at the dirt I have on Satan. I can clear up a lot of fallacies, that's for sure.

In your opinion, what are the three most drastic fallacies people conceive of the one you call Satan?

Are Satan and Lucifer, in fact, the same being?

It is said that Beelzebub possessed Jesus Christ at one point. What are your thoughts on this?

And where do you get your information from?

Edit: it should be said that Sasa isn't the only one that has to answer these questions. Anyone who has an opinion may speak it.

 

[PureX]

In my opinion the greatest misconception about "satan" is that "he" exists as a being outside of the self.

I believe that "satan" is a metaphorical, or symbolic character representing our own unacceptable desires and inclinations. And the represented character of "satan" as a deceptive, dishonest, misleading, tempting, being etc., are all based on our own feelings about our own less than exemplary desires and inclinations. To presume that "satan" is an external phenomena is to miss the whole point of the invention.

The second mistake I believe people make about the "character of satan" is in assuming that it can mislead us against our will (again an attempt at separating ourselves from responsibility for our own actions). The image of "satan" as someone that tricks us against our will into doing something evil is antithetical to the purpose of the character in the first place. "Satan" represents our own negative inclinations and desires. We decieve ourselves into following these. And in most stories and myths involving "satan" he is not allowed to lie to us, but instead can only conveniently leave out specific information that we don't ask for and that allows us to draw the conclusion that we desired to draw all along.

Stories about people being "decieved by satan" are meant to teach us about how we have decieved ourselves. "Satan" is us. "Satan" is that part of us that wants to do what we know is wrong, and so we trick ourselves into imagining that we were tricked by someone else: by some external spirit called "satan". But in truth the "spirit" is our own. It's WE who desire to do the evil deed. And it's we who will "trick" ourselves into believing that it's OK to do so.

 

[Sasa]

In your opinion, what are the three most drastic fallacies people conceive of the one you call Satan?

1. That he doesn't exist. (no offense to the poster above) Because Satan's goal is to lead people away from the Creator and his son Jesus Christ, to believe that Satan doesn't exist would lead to believing that the Creator doesn't exist as well as invalidate the Scriptures.

2. That Satan has incredible powers. Satan is in reality, no more powerful than any other angelic being whether it be fallen or holy.

3. That he has horns and a tail and carries a pitchfork. In reality, Satan is a beautiful angel because he was created in perfection. All fallen angels are actually quite beautiful in appearance. If they manifest as anything else, it's only as theatrics and in an attempt to frighten humans. (To see a few of Satan's "scary" manifestations you can visit the website in my profile and click on "The Tin God" in the menu)

Are Satan and Lucifer, in fact, the same being?

Yes, Satan, Lucifer, Beezlebub, the Devil, The Serpent, The Dragon, Nosferatu, Ba'al are all names for Satan. You might also find it interesting that his given name when he was with the Cherubic Order of Angels was Dawn.

It is said that Beelzebub possessed Jesus Christ at one point. What are your thoughts on this?

It never happened. It would have been an impossibility for the son of God to have been possessed as he was completely surrounded by angels at all times. And, as Satan said to him in the scriptures, all he would have to do is call on them and they would help him.

And where do you get your information from?

My information comes from the Cherubic Order of Angels. I am shielded by them in my work as a demonologist and minister and when I perform an "ousting" they are the one's who do the "work" while I act as the human catalyst. (To view pictures of three of them you can visit the same website listed above and click on "The Cherubic Order" in the menu.)

 

[Bishka]

1 . That people believe that 'the devil made them do it'. That's one of the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my whole entire life. The 'devil' can only 'make' you do something if you let him. If you give the devil power, of course he's powerful. If you don't give him a second glance, then no, he has no power at all.

2. and 3. Same as above, that's the one that bugs me the most is that people think he has so much power, like I stated, he only has power if you give it to him.

 

[Booko]

1. That he doesn't exist. (no offense to the poster above) Because Satan's goal is to lead people away from the Creator and his son Jesus Christ, to believe that Satan doesn't exist would lead to believing that the Creator doesn't exist as well as invalidate the Scriptures.

The only important fallacy:

That [some] Christians would find it so necessary to believe in a figure that comes straight out of Zoroastrianism -- a religion those same people would declare to be "false."

 

[Sasa]

The only important fallacy:

That [some] Christians would find it so necessary to believe in a figure that comes straight out of Zoroastrianism -- a religion those same people would declare to be "false."

Satan was around long before Zoroastrianism. Just because they may have been the first monotheistic religion doesn't mean that they "created" him out of thin air. I've encountered Satan and his demons personally on more than one occassion. Who's to say they didn't also and that's why they believed in him?

 

[Bishka]

Satan was around long before Zoroastrianism. Just because they may have been the first monotheistic religion doesn't mean that they "created" him out of thin air. I've encountered Satan and his demons personally on more than one occassion. Who's to say they didn't also and that's why they believed in him?

May I interject here? In response to Booko's comments, just because they are the first to mention him doesn't mean they made him up. Yes, it is highly likely according to historical records that they 'made him up', but I know he's been around a lot longer then they have.

 

[Sasa]

Feel free to interject anytime you like Becky. And I was just using this as an excuse to also tell you that your avatar totally cracks me up. Poor lil big head giraffe...

 

[Bishka]

Feel free to interject anytime you like Becky. And I was just using this as an excuse to also tell you that your avatar totally cracks me up. Poor lil big head giraffe...

Thank you. I like it too.

 

[Halcyon]

Satan, Lucifer, Beezlebub, the Devil, The Serpent, The Dragon, Nosferatu, Ba'al are all names for Satan.

I'm sorry that's simply not true.

Satan is an angel of God, obedient and loyal to God.

Lucifer is a Roman God, originally the name ofr Venus, the morning star, bfore the planet was renamed Venus to honour the Goddess. Lucifer/The Morning Star was the honourific title of a Babylonian king whom Isaiah mocks for his pride and fall.
Jesus was referred to as the Morning Star - thus Lucifer cannot be the Devil.
You're idea of Lucifer being the same as Satan comes from Paradise Lost.

Beelzebub is the same name as Ba'al, it stems from Ba'al Zebub - Lord of Zebub. Ba'al being the ancient Canaanite word for Lord or god. This is a typical example of demonising the ancient gods of pagan cultures, to make the Judeo-Christian God stand out as the one true God.

Nosferatu??? A Romanian word for vampire.

 

[emeth]

The fact remains that all those names have been used to describe Satan at some point or another, whether right or wrong. Only a few of them are biblical.

 

[Snowbear]

In your opinion, what are the three most drastic fallacies people conceive of the one you call Satan?

1 - That he doesn't exist

2 - That he has no powers

3 - That he can "make" people do bad things

Are Satan and Lucifer, in fact, the same being?

The Evil One goes by many names, and has been called both of these.
In the KJV of the bible, Isaiah refers to Lucifer, the son of the morning, as the fallen angel that God banished from heaven forever.

It is said that Beelzebub possessed Jesus Christ at one point. What are your thoughts on this?

Where is that said?

And where do you get your information from?

The Word of God (aka the Bible)

 

[Sasa]

I'm sorry that's simply not true.

Satan is an angel of God, obedient and loyal to God.

Lucifer is a Roman God, originally the name ofr Venus, the morning star, bfore the planet was renamed Venus to honour the Goddess. Lucifer/The Morning Star was the honourific title of a Babylonian king whom Isaiah mocks for his pride and fall.
Jesus was referred to as the Morning Star - thus Lucifer cannot be the Devil.
You're idea of Lucifer being the same as Satan comes from Paradise Lost.

Beelzebub is the same name as Ba'al, it stems from Ba'al Zebub - Lord of Zebub. Ba'al being the ancient Canaanite word for Lord or god. This is a typical example of demonising the ancient gods of pagan cultures, to make the Judeo-Christian God stand out as the one true God.

Nosferatu??? A Romanian word for vampire.

All Myths... and Satan aka Dawn = The Morning Star

"Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground." Isaiah 14:12

 

[Halcyon]

All Myths... and Satan aka Dawn = The Morning Star

I'm sorry, what do you mean?

Satan is not Lucifer, Jesus is the Morning Star in Christian myth, see Revelation 22:16.

Satan is the adversary of man, God's angel given the task to carry out God's tests of mankind. Satan does God's will alone. Read the Book of Job.

 

[Sasa]

I'm sorry, what do you mean?

Satan is not Lucifer, Jesus is the Morning Star in Christian myth, see Revelation 22:16.

Satan is the adversary of man, God's angel given the task to carry out God's tests of mankind. Satan does God's will alone. Read the Book of Job.

What I mean is that I'm not wrong. Satan most certainly is Lucifer (The Dragon, The Serpent, etc.) and his given name was Dawn which is the same as "Morning Star". You're believing in myths and misinterpretations not truth.

 

[Smoke]

In your opinion, what are the three most drastic fallacies people conceive of the one you call Satan?

3. That he is the ruler of hell.
2. That he's God's rival.
1. That he exists.

Are Satan and Lucifer, in fact, the same being?

Lucifer is a Latin poetic name for the Morning Star. A passage in Isaiah, referring to the King of Babylon as the Morning Star, was later interpreted by Tertullian and other Christians as referring to Satan.

It is said that Beelzebub possessed Jesus Christ at one point. What are your thoughts on this?

I don't believe Beelzebub exists.

And where do you get your information from?

Like all sensible people, I rely on the Magic 8-Ball to know what's true and what isn't.

 

[Smoke]

I've encountered Satan and his demons personally on more than one occassion.

Pretty impressive. Relatively few people merit his personal attention: Eve, David, Job, Jesus, and you.

 

[Sasa]

Pretty impressive. Relatively few people merit his personal attention: Eve, David, Job, Jesus, and you.

Yeah...but it's no honor. He's just another demon trying to win the Spiritual War. But that's what I get for being a "Chosen One". There have been way more than just those few you mentioned too. Lot's of people have been Chosen down through the centuries. And don't ask me why me, because I don't know. He (God) chooses who He wants.

 

[Snowbear]

Pretty impressive. Relatively few people merit his personal attention: Eve, David, Job, Jesus, and you.

Me too - he's tried to kill, poison, crush, lie to and otherwise destroy me on more than one occassion.

Yet another misconception is that "relatively few people merit his personal attention." Just the opposite - his attention is focused on each person who believes salvation comes from God, with his focus being to turn that person away from God.

 

[Sasa]

Yes that's true Snowbear, but don't forget he's got millions upon millions of fallen angel followers who do his bidding as well. They're all working together in an attempt to win the War and gain the right to live out from under God's Sovereign Laws.