Angelogical/Demonological Fallacies

[Mister_T]

Why don't you tell me what YOU think it means?

Soitenly! Being unselfish, loving, kind, striving to do the right thing......being a good person. Having good intentions and a good heart.

People who have committed vile crimes.

Like serial killers and child rapists?

 

[zombieharlot]

And we all know he won't be able to do that.

I wasn't really aware that LDS believed in demons. I guess I'm kind of confused on how demons can exist if all goes to heaven.

 

[Sasa]

Soitenly! Being unselfish, loving, kind, striving to do the right thing......being a good person. Having good intentions and a good heart.

Bingo! The only thing I would add to that is a belief in God and his son Jesus Christ. The Bible talks a lot about matters of the heart because it's our hearts that dictate what we do. You've heard the term "Follow your heart", before right? Well, it's a lot like that. The ability to discern right from wrong is written on our hearts and when we listen to our hearts we won't be led astray. That's why it says, "Guard your heart above all else, for it is the source of life." Proverbs 4:23 - It's speaking of our eternal life, just like Jesus was speaking to Martha (in the Lazarus passage) that a belief in him would lead to eternal life as well.

Like serial killers and child rapists?

Yes. Unless they repent and it's read in their heart that they are truly sorry for what they've done and are then forgiven.

 

[zombieharlot]

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No, Hell is not empty.

Then who's in hell if followers of Satan stay behind and help him?

Oh Satan was most definitly around in the Bible times - and before that even. I couldn't point out anywhere in the Scriptures specifically where Satan has broken rules. I only know that he has as of late because I was personally involved in his breaking the rules. Satan is more desperate now because we're in End Times and time is running out. Simply having more followers than before doesn't matter because there are still Christians in the world. He either has to thwart prophecy and prevent the Rapture from occurring, or he's toast.

No evidence? Hmm...okay. I thought spiritual beings were timeless. How would he know or even care if we're in the end times if he doesn't follow the order of time?

 

[zombieharlot]

People who have committed vile crimes.

I'm not sure you actually mean what you're saying here. Just because my crimes aren't "vile," I'm still going to heaven?

 

[Sasa]

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Then who's in hell if followers of Satan stay behind and help him?

Humans who have committed vile crimes are in the Abyss. Satan's followers are made up of other fallen angels and those humans who are still alive who either worship him or don't believe in God.

I thought spiritual beings were timeless. How would he know or even care if we're in the end times if he doesn't follow the order of time?

Do you know what End Times is?

 

[Mister_T]

The only thing I would add to that is a belief in God and his son Jesus Christ

That's what I though you were getting at. Which brings up next question: Do you consider that a prereq to avoid eternal damnation? Are details of belief and confession that important? If so what's the reasoning? Do you consider Hell for people who were pretty good folks, but they didn't beleive the right things.


Sorry. I don't mean to run you through the mill. I'm just eager to learn where you are coming from so that I have a better understanding

 

[Sasa]

I'm not sure you actually mean what you're saying here. Just because my crimes aren't "vile," I'm still going to heaven?

There are sins that aren't considered "vile" enough to keep you out of Heaven. Ultimately it depends on your heart condition.

 

[zombieharlot]

True, Lazarus was resurrected in that he was brought back to life, but he wasn't resurrected like Jesus was - in that his body was not resurrected to Heaven.

Elijah went to heaven in a whirlwind.

Martha said, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in Me, even if he dies, will live. Everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die—ever. Do you believe this?"
"Yes, Lord," she told Him, "I believe You are the Messiah, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."

What Jesus was saying was that if we believe (if our hearts are open to him), we will gain eternal life after our physical death. I'll consult with the Cherubs on and have more information later on this.

I know what Jesus was saying. I think I know the Bible a little bit more than you think I do.

 

[Mister_T]

BTW Sasa, keep a pitcher of water next to your keyboard. It must be smoking by now!

 

[zombieharlot]

Do you know what End Times is?

The Bible speaks of an end, but as far as I know, it doesn't saying anything about "End Times."

 

[Sasa]

That's what I though you were getting at. Which brings up next question: Do you consider that a prereq to avoid eternal damnation? Are details of belief and confession that important? If so what's the reasoning? Do you consider Hell for people who were pretty good folks, but they didn't beleive the right things.

I would say it's a prerequisite to making it to Christ's Kingdom. You see, now that we're so close to things "wrapping up" (being so close to the end of End Times), we're in a slightly different situation here. For those people who died a hundred years ago, if they'd committed no vile crimes and were otherwise good people but had no belief in God - they would be detained at a place called "The Edge of Light Worship" where they would be counciled on the truth before being allowed to pass through the Baptismal light. (That's if they agreed after being counciled on the truth, to follow God's Sovereign Laws.)

But now, we have a situation where the Rapture is nearing. It's better to be in the 1st Rapture because those people won't have to go through the Great Tribulation. For those people, belief is necessary. However, for those who have no belief and who aren't raptured the first time around, they will have an opportunity in changing their hearts and believing and then being taken in the 2nd Rapture which will take place mid-tribulation. After that, all that should be left are those who reject the truth and God and his Son Jesus Christ. Those people will be annihalated at Armageddon and they will not have eternal life. All of this is written about in the Scriptures in many places, but here's one example:

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:32

The separation is those people who have "bad" hearts and those who have "good" hearts. That is all part of what myself and the other ministers in our ministry are trying to do. Council people on the truth and give them an opportunity to develop the right heart condition before the 1st Rapture occurs so that they'll be included. And, if they don't make it in that one, hopefully some will remember what we've said and make it in the 2nd.

Sorry. I don't mean to run you through the mill. I'm just eager to learn where you are coming from so that I have a better understanding

That's okay hun, I don't mind. As a minister, it's what I do. Just bear with me because I'm human too. Did I manage to answer your questions?

 

[zombieharlot]

There are sins that aren't considered "vile" enough to keep you out of Heaven. Ultimately it depends on your heart condition.

In God's eyes, isn't sin just that - sin? Wrong-doing is wrong-doing. If it is your intent to sin (go against God), I don't think it really matters what the sin is.

 

[Sasa]

Elijah went to heaven in a whirlwind.

At 2 Kings 2:11, 12, the prophet Elijah is described as ascending in the windstorm to the heavens. However, the heavens referred to here are the atmospheric heavens in which windstorms happen, and not the spiritual heavens of Yahweh's presence. You know this to be true because Elijah did not pass over at the time of that ascention; but instead, continued to live a number of years after his atmospheric transportation away from his successor Elisha. Nor did Elijah upon physical death ascend through the Light into the Heavenly Court, because Jesus while on earth, stated that no man has ascended into Heaven(John 3:13). He had to be the first to enter before his Father Yahweh with the Ranson Sacrifice he gave. Then, the gate was opened for others to enter. Until then, they remained in the bossom position outside the Light.

2 Kings 2:11, 12 "As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire with horses of fire suddenly appeared and separated the two of them. Then Elijah went up into heaven in the whirlwind. As Elisha watched, he kept crying out, "My father, my father, the chariots and horsemen of Israel!" Then he never saw Elijah again. He took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces."

Although Elisha never saw him again, the Scriptures bear out that Elijah lived on after that incident.

John 3:13 "No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man." This was stated prior to the Sacrifice.

Acts 2:34 "For it was not David who ascended into the heavens, but he himself says: The Lord said to my Lord, 'Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies Your footstool.'" This is to show as an example that no one had entered the Heaven of Yahweh's presence, before Christ.

I know what Jesus was saying. I think I know the Bible a little bit more than you think I do.

I haven't come to any conclusions as to how well you know the scriptures, hun.

 

[Sasa]

In God's eyes, isn't sin just that - sin? Wrong-doing is wrong-doing. If it is your intent to sin (go against God), I don't think it really matters what the sin is.

Yeah, you're probably right. Stealing a candy bar from Ralphs would certainly condemn you to the Abyss. :areyoucra

 

[zombieharlot]

At 2 Kings 2:11, 12, the prophet Elijah is described as ascending in the windstorm to the heavens. However, the heavens referred to here are the atmospheric heavens in which windstorms happen, and not the spiritual heavens of Yahweh's presence. You know this to be true because Elijah did not pass over at the time of that ascention; but instead, continued to live a number of years after his atmospheric transportation away from his successor Elisha. Nor did Elijah upon physical death ascend through the Light into the Heavenly Court, because Jesus while on earth, stated that no man has ascended into Heaven(John 3:13). He had to be the first to enter before his Father Yahweh with the Ranson Sacrifice he gave. Then, the gate was opened for others to enter. Until then, they remained in the bossom position outside the Light.

2 Kings 2:11, 12 "As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire with horses of fire suddenly appeared and separated the two of them. Then Elijah went up into heaven in the whirlwind. As Elisha watched, he kept crying out, "My father, my father, the chariots and horsemen of Israel!" Then he never saw Elijah again. He took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces."

Although Elisha never saw him again, the Scriptures bear out that Elijah lived on after that incident.

John 3:13 "No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man." This was stated prior to the Sacrifice.

Acts 2:34 "For it was not David who ascended into the heavens, but he himself says: The Lord said to my Lord, 'Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies Your footstool.'" This is to show as an example that no one had entered the Heaven of Yahweh's presence, before Christ.

These are some interesting points. But I don't understand the reason for tossing him up in a whirlwind. Was it for the purpose of seperating the two? And why would they need to be seperated?

I haven't come to any conclusions as to how well you know the scriptures, hun.

Okay then.

 

[zombieharlot]

Yeah, you're probably right. Stealing a candy bar from Ralphs would certainly condemn you to the Abyss. :areyoucra

Well, I haven't committed any vile crimes, but I'm still going to hell.

 

[FFH]

Well, I haven't committed any vile crimes, but I'm still going to hell.

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" ~ Romans 3:23 ~

We might be surprised at who we see in heaven.

Things are not what they appear to be on earth.

I Samuel 16:7

But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him; for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

 

[zombieharlot]

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" ~ Romans 3:23 ~

We might be surprised at who we see in heaven.

Things are not what they appear to be on earth.

I Samuel 16:7

But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him; for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

Don't you believe, as an LDS, that everyone goes to heaven though?

 

[FFH]

Don't you believe, as an LDS, that everyone goes to heaven though?

Everytime I try to type and post something on this subject I feel it wrong to do so. Possibly because this is the wrong thread for this.