Anger

[Shantanu]

I don't think that answers the question well either.

Do you know for certain that animals suffer from anger?

 

[joe1776]

This thread is inspired by a couple of posts that made me raise an eyebrow.

In one post, a member said that he becomes angry when someone asks direct questions about his religious beliefs because he felt that such beliefs should be private. In another post, a member stated that if one isn't angry about the state of our world, one isn't paying attention.

The reason these comments gave me pause is I live in such a way as to eliminate anger completely, as I see it as an entirely unproductive emotion that does little more than create drama as a result of judgment of myself and others. While there are circumstances in this reality that are unfavorable and perhaps should change, I see anger accomplishing little more than needless suffering.

What are your thoughts? Do you see anything productive in being angry? If so, how?

When physically attacked, anger provides a temporary jolt of adrenaline that is useful. But even then it should be quickly taken under control for the best defense.

Aside from that, I associate most anger with arrogance. Someone's belief in their superiority has been challenged.

 

[Vinayaka]

What are your thoughts? Do you see anything productive in being angry? If so, how?

I see anger as a lower emotion, quite unhealthy to the physical, emotional, and spiritual bodies. In my faith, we avoid temples and our own worship when angry. It serves no purpose, other than a reminder not to do it again.

That said, it comes in degrees, and some folks have differing definitions or thoughts about what it is. So when someone says they're angry, it may not be the anger of the uncontrolled type. There are several words that might mean the same ... upset, mad, raging, annoyed, even disappointed.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Depends where the anger is focussed.

Passive anger at another person or persons can help one feel better. Example, some idiot cuts you up at a traffic junction. I dont advocate jumping out of the car and slapping the culprits face (recipe for a road rage incident). But an inwardly directed stream of invective can be most satisfying.

In my work i found that anger at a particular problem could often produce a unique solution.

Anger at oneself for messing up can/is is great teacher of life skill.

As one who has been involved in a road rage incident that escalated to a collision as a result to anger (many, many years ago, and a story for another thread), I find that simply realizing that the rage of the person in the other car is a projection of their own reality that doesn't have to become a part of my reality to be much more satisfying than allowing myself to become angry and subsequently blowing off steam, either outwardly or inwardly. I much prefer offering a smile, a wave, and bidding them adieu.

Having lived on both sides of the coin, in my experience, there is little more satisfying than recognizing the catalyst for anger before it rears its ugly head and being able to transcend it.

 

[Vee]

In the right dose, anger can be very useful. A person who is angry at an unfair situation might be motivated to do something about it. A lot of good things have been accomplished due to people being angry and wanting a change.
But like many other emotions, anger can become poisonous if it takes over and becomes bigger than it should be. Emotions need to be managed to be productive.

 

[ChristineM]

As one who has been involved in a road rage incident that escalated to a collision as a result to anger (many, many years ago, and a story for another thread), I find that simply realizing that the rage of the person in the other car is a projection of their own reality that doesn't have to become a part of my reality to be much more satisfying than allowing myself to become angry and subsequently blowing off steam, either outwardly or inwardly. I much prefer offering a smile, a wave, and bidding them adieu.

Having lived on both sides of the coin, in my experience, there is little more satisfying than recognizing the catalyst for anger before it rears its ugly head and being able to transcend it.

That blowing off steam is a great pressure valve. To a small degree i envy you not needing one but i wouldnt be me without the occasional emotion of anger.

 

[Curious George]

Do you know for certain that animals suffer from anger?

No, you said it was animalistic inheritance. I was operating on the premise that you implied.

 

[Shantanu]

No, you said it was animalistic inheritance. I was operating on the premise that you implied.

As we humans came about 2 million years ago we were animals who had built up anger to be able to survive as hunter gatherers, that is the inheritence that came through to the present generation except that God intervened 40,000 years ago to show a different way for mankind to progress. But since you are an atheist you do not understand what I am talking about.

 

[Curious George]

As we humans came about 2 million years ago we were animals who had built up anger to be able to survive as hunter gatherers, that is the inheritence that came through to the present generation except that God intervened 40,000 years ago to show a different way for mankind to progress. But since you are an atheist you do not understand what I am talking about.

How did anger help them survive?

 

[SalixIncendium]

That blowing off steam is a great pressure valve. To a small degree i envy you not needing one but i wouldnt be me without the occasional emotion of anger.

The trick is not to allow the water to become steam.

 

[ChristineM]

The trick is not to allow the water to become steam.

Steam is fine, plasma is the state to avoid?

 

[Polymath257]

The centers of the brain that mediate anger are the same as those that mediate fear. Anger is an emotion that most animals experience when they are threatened and where violence is a way out of the danger. As such, it is a quite useful emotion in some situations.

But, for most animals, once the danger is past, the anger retreats and the animal continues with their lives. Humans, however, have managed to create *chronic*, low level anger over abstract threats. That can rapidly become unhealthy and counter-productive.

I very seldom get angry. The one situation in the last decade or so was when my wife was in the hospital. She had just had surgery and was experiencing pain after. The doctor had prescribed some pain meds, but for some reason they were not showing up. For a long time. And my wife was in serious pain.

Well, I got *angry*, went into the hallway, found a nurse and asked/yelled "What does it take for you guys to get my wife some pain relief?".

She got her meds within 5 minutes. My wife said she had never seen me that scary. But it got the job done. And a hospital official came by to officially apologize and see if we wanted *anything* else.

 

[bobhikes]

This thread is inspired by a couple of posts that made me raise an eyebrow.

In one post, a member said that he becomes angry when someone asks direct questions about his religious beliefs because he felt that such beliefs should be private. In another post, a member stated that if one isn't angry about the state of our world, one isn't paying attention.

The reason these comments gave me pause is I live in such a way as to eliminate anger completely, as I see it as an entirely unproductive emotion that does little more than create drama as a result of judgment of myself and others. While there are circumstances in this reality that are unfavorable and perhaps should change, I see anger accomplishing little more than needless suffering.

What are your thoughts? Do you see anything productive in being angry? If so, how?

I don't think anger is possible to remove. It is a human defensive method. When in a battle for life anger is a great force for survival the problem we have is controlling it when it is not life threatening. Humans see things, like money and beliefs as being life threatening even though they are not, because we have lost prospective or created a new prospective. Unlike anger of other animals and humans of the past this anger does not build quickly and dissipate quickly it is a slow growth that presently builds to a breaking point. When you are lashed out today it is because the person has been through stress for a while.

Knowing this and knowing that I need to release my stress and stop worrying about non-life threatening events. I still get anger and it still comes to a point where I lash out at others. If you can solve this issue, then there would be world peace. I won't hold my breath.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I very seldom get angry. The one situation in the last decade or so was when my wife was in the hospital. She had just had surgery and was experiencing pain after. The doctor had prescribed some pain meds, but for some reason they were not showing up. For a long time. And my wife was in serious pain.

Well, I got *angry*, went into the hallway, found a nurse and asked/yelled "What does it take for you guys to get my wife some pain relief?".

She got her meds within 5 minutes. My wife said she had never seen me that scary. But it got the job done. And a hospital official came by to officially apologize and see if we wanted *anything* else.

What do you think it was that prompted the reaction for them to bring the meds? Do you think it was fear of physical altercation? Fear of financial liability? Embarrassment with other patients or staff members? Shame for allowing the pain to escalate to the point where they angered the husband?

Do you think that there might have been other recourse that would have resulted in them bringing her meds that didn't involve anger?

 

[Polymath257]

What do you think it was that prompted the reaction for them to bring the meds? Do you think it was fear of physical altercation? Fear of financial liability? Embarrassment with other patients or staff members? Shame for allowing the pain to escalate to the point where they angered the husband?

Do you think that there might have been other recourse that would have resulted in them bringing her meds that didn't involve anger?

This was after nurses had come into the room multiple times and I had expressed concern about getting the meds to my wife. So, in my mind, the situation had escalated several times before I became angry. As I said, I don't get angry easily.

I know I shocked the nurse I encountered in the hall. I made no move to be physically threatening, making it quite clear my goal was treatment for my wife. But I also made it quite clear I was *very* unhappy.

So, in your list, I doubt that fear of physical violence was the concern. It may well have been shame or embarrassment on the part of the nurses. I think the administration coming in later was, perhaps, fear of being sued.

In any case, I do feel that the anger I expressed was *precisely* what was required to make sure my wife got what she needed. I was even commended afterward (by the administration) for being an effective advocate for my wife. take that as you will.

 

[shunyadragon]

This thread is inspired by a couple of posts that made me raise an eyebrow.

In one post, a member said that he becomes angry when someone asks direct questions about his religious beliefs because he felt that such beliefs should be private. In another post, a member stated that if one isn't angry about the state of our world, one isn't paying attention.

Some angry reactions are like; 'hating math.' It helps someone to realize, 'math and the state of the world is indifferent,' and could care less about one's anger.

The reason these comments gave me pause is I live in such a way as to eliminate anger completely, as I see it as an entirely unproductive emotion that does little more than create drama as a result of judgment of myself and others. While there are circumstances in this reality that are unfavorable and perhaps should change, I see anger accomplishing little more than needless suffering.

I believe it is an illusion to try and eliminate anger completely. A natural response like anger is not totally unproductive. It simply exists as a natural human response. There is a problem of anger from the perspective of mental illness, which is often uncontroled in its expression and may cause harm to ones self and others.

What are your thoughts? Do you see anything productive in being angry? If so, how?

Anger being a natural response to various causes such as threats and frustration should best be dealt with constructively. What one does with anger and the response determines what is productive or not.

 

[BSM1]

Yes I do. I see anger as being natural. For example, recently a member made a post in which he made fun of a rape victim. YOU clicked it as funny. That has made me very angry.

And what did that accomplish, besides ruining your mood?

 

[Sunstone]

The reason these comments gave me pause is I live in such a way as to eliminate anger completely, as I see it as an entirely unproductive emotion that does little more than create drama as a result of judgment of myself and others.

At risk of shamelessly plugging my new novella-length tragic poem, "A Death in the Spring", please allow me to quote the poem:

"The powers within us that we deny become our demons."

Not always howling demons, of course, but demons. I would not myself know how to eliminate anger. In my case not even eliminate it at risk of its turning into a demon, let alone safely eliminate it. I'd have to think about it if I did know how to eliminate it. I'm not sure I'd want to.

So far as I can see (and that ain't far), the trick for me is to tame the beast rather than kill it. Tame it through not clinging to it, not nursing it, not holding onto it. Or through unconditional love, if possible. Unconditional love clings to nothing.

 

[Salvador]

Lately, I've been doing a real bang up job with controlling my anger management issues; I don't take steroids now when working out. Legal medicinal marijuana has really mellowed me out. ...

Sometimes, when I start getting tense, I listen to Pink Floyd and think of a happy place, this also helps me relax ...

 

[crossfire]

Anger is useful for removing obstacles. It can be transformed from a "demon" into a useful ally if your apply it inward first, transforming blind rage into clear thinking problem solving ability. Here's an article I wrote about transformation of anger: (I'll hide it under a spoiler tag)

Spoiler: my own article

Project Hephæstus' Forge: Transforming Anger
Anger doesn't seem to get any respect. Many people try to avoid or repress the negative emotions like anger, envy, and jealousy, because they can take over your mind and influence you into negative behavior. However, some people get some sort of satisfaction from these emotions, in spite of the negative influence they have on our minds. Repressing these emotions can lead to extreme behavior when they finally do surface, so repression is not a satisfactory option. Satisfying these emotions as they arise makes you a slave to them with only short term satisfaction and often with long term problems that will have to be cleared up. So is there another way of dealing with the wrathful emotions? Indeed, there is.
One aspect of the Left Hand Path is to examine the more negative aspects of your personality in order to understand them and transform them into something more satisfactory, so let's take a quick look at them to get some understanding, and then apply a bit of reasoning that may lead to a way to transform them.
The wrathful emotions are based upon dislike, and are useful in removing or getting around unsatisfactory obstacles. You can approach obstacles from an intelligent manner and skillfully resolve them, or you can try to use force to smash through them. Anger will give you an adrenaline rush that could be channeled into force, but is there another way to channel this extra energy? Let's examine anger a bit more closely:
When you are angry, the accompanying adrenaline rush not only energizes your body, but it also energizes your mind. Before you became angry, your mind was relatively clear and calm, like a lake or a slow moving stream. However, a myriad of energized emotions screaming for attention can quickly turn the calm waters into a cloudy, boiling rage that is anything but clear. {Blind rage} With an energized body and a clouded mind, it would seem that the option of dealing with obstacles by force would be the only way, as it is difficult to go the intelligent route by examining the obstacle when your mind in such a state. Your clouded state of mind is an obstacle to the intelligent route. {Wait a minute--aren't wrathful emotions useful in removing or getting around obstacles? Indeed they are!}
Your first obstacle to deal with is your clouded, boiling raging mind. Direct the energy from the adrenaline rush there first, and remove the clouded state of blind rage from your mind first. Then you will be able to think clearly enough to take the intelligent route for the external problem. {You apply Greater Black Magick to yourself, first, and then you turn to the objective universe }
Anger is a quick and strong emotion. It can quickly silence the other disturbing emotions within your mind to still the boiling activity impeding your ability to think clearly. Once the mind has been cleared, the rush of energy can then be channeled into mental activity in order to find an intelligent solution to the external problem, instead of resorting to force. You have overcome not just one obstacle, (the external problem,) but two obstacles (counting the obstacle of the clouded mind.) When you realize and appreciate benefits of this, the disturbing emotions will welcome and respect anger, and energy will not need to be expended in silencing these disturbing emotions, as they will be pacified by anger. However, when this point has been reached, anger doesn't seem to resemble what it used to be. It has transformed so much that even the name "anger" doesn't seem to fit anymore. So, what has this emotion formerly-known-as-anger become? What name would be suitable for this force that can quickly clear the mind, yet super energize it as well? {Wow! It sounds almost magickal, huh?} I have some names for what a thought-pacifying-mind energizing force can be used as a basis for, including:
⦁ Mushin (Zen)
⦁ Samatha (Eastern religions)
⦁ the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Rupa Jhanas (Buddhism)
⦁ Shyine (Tibetan)
⦁ Samadhi (Eastern religions)
⦁ Pure Awareness (Advaita)
⦁ Clearing the Grounds to Alaya (Yogacara)
⦁ The Magickal Trance described in Peter J Carroll's Liber Null (Liber MMM)
⦁ Kensho (Zen)
The only real name that I have come across to describe this transformed anger is Great Mirror Wisdom. (If you know of any other names for it, please let me know.) Whatever you may call it, it can be the platform/basis for all of the spiritual practices listed above and more, as well as the more down-to-earth tool for dealing with mundane obstacles in everyday life. So, even if you are not spiritually or magically inclined, it is still worthwhile to apply Hephæstus' Forge to your anger and transform it for the clarity of mind and problem-solving ability it gives in everyday matters, as well as liberation from being enslaved to its more base expression.
Free your mind!