Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
Are you familiar with the concept of bodily autonomy?
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Another Abortion Debate
- Thread starter Willamena
- Start date
leroy
Well-Known Member
What is the point of quoting my comment if you are not going to answer it?
Seems to me the point is to correct the bad assumptions inherent in your question. Otherwise, the question can't be answered.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
I was trying to lead the horse to water, so to speak. But I guess not all of them want to be led.
leroy
Well-Known Member
@Kooky
I asked a very simple question.
Do you think that hitting a pregnant woman and killing the fetus as a consequence should be considered a worst crime that hitting an unpregant woman?..... yes ,yes both are horrible crimes, but would you agree that the former is worse than the last?
I am just asking a simple question.
1 If you say “yes, I agree” then you are granting that the fetus is a person (or at least an organism with intrinsic value”)
2 If you say “no I don’t agree” both crimes are the same, then you can deny that the fetus is a person and be intellectually consistent,
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
Your conclusion would only be valid if I was argueing that killing a fetus would kill a person, which I am not.
It is possible for one situation to be worse than another in terms of criminal damage or harm inflicted, without bringing personhood into it; seriously injuring somebody is generally treated as worse than only mildly injuring them, for example.
Therefore I would argue that hitting a pregnant woman so severely as to induce a miscarriage definitely inflicts greater harm on her, but I wouldn't argue that it is a crime of a different quality - it is simply a more severe case of domestic abuse.
You would avoid turning yourself into pretzels argumentatively if you simply learned and understood the concept of bodily autonomy, which forms the basis of abortionist/pro-choice argumentation. So far, unfortunately, it does not look to me like you've demonstrated any motivation at all to understand the position of the opposite side of this debate.
I recommend you try and learn something from this, and return to this debate after you've familiarized yourself with at least the foundational elements of your opponents' arguments, so that you can actually adress their actual ideas directly and show them why you think they are wrong on their terms, instead of so desperately trying to lead them into a reductio ad absurdum that appears only to you, and nobody else.
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leroy
Well-Known Member
Sure I am interested in knowing the opposite side, so far based on my research I concluded that the prolife position is better and more reasonable than the prochoice position, but I am always open to new arguments.
Bodily autonomy as I understand it means that you have the right to do whatever you want with your own body as long and you don’t hurt (let alone kill) other people. ……. Is this what you understood by bodily autonomy?..........if not how would you define bodily autonomy?
If we are going to have a conversation on this topic, I would ask you to answer this question so that I can understand your position
¿do you grant that a fetus/embryo is a person?...¿is this question relevant? or woudl you justify abortion regardless if the fetus is a person or not?
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
Okay, then please explain your understanding of the concept of bodily autonomy, and why you think it is an insufficient basis to solve the ethical conundrum of family planning.
leroy
Well-Known Member
Bodily autonomy as I understand it means that you have the right to do whatever you want with your own body as long and you don’t hurt (let alone kill) other people. ……. Is this what you understand by bodily autonomy?..........if not how would you define bodily autonomy?
In the cases where you do hurt other people, in my opinion one should look at those cases on a case by case basis.
Beta.
Brian2
Veteran Member
An apple and a leaf are part of the tree.
I don't see this as relevant to the abortion debate. Is it?
stvdv
Veteran Member
It's a chicken ... egg problem
I let the chicks solve this one
Depends on which part of the debate you are pursuing.
As feminist as that is, I don't see the connection.
Let's see. "I have a problem. There is a baby coming that has congenital defects. If it's born, it will undoubtedly cause sepsis. I know what I will do to solve my problem. I will allow doctors to save my life. I will morn my baby."
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
My best friend had a problem, head trauma, coma and pregnant. Because her parents okayed the abortion she's alive today with her own family.