• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God.

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member

Looks pretty big to me, and given sufficient time and resources I bet a bigger dog could be genetically engineered too.
It would a lot more difficult than you think.
Also note that you mention genetically engineered which not just be random mutations as claimed for evolution.
But even genetically engineered would fall.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It would a lot more difficult than you think.
Also note that you mention genetically engineered which not just be random mutations as claimed for evolution.
But even genetically engineered would fall.
The only difference between genetic engineering and natural selection that I'm aware of is that in genetic engineering you have a person doing the selecting whilst in natural selection you have an environment doing the selecting.

Apart from that I believe the random mutations provided for selection to be the same.

But I'm no biologist so I look forward to somone more qualified than myself to correct me if I'm wrong.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
The only difference between genetic engineering and natural selection that I'm aware of is that in genetic engineering you have a person doing the selecting whilst in natural selection you have an environment doing the selecting.

Apart from that I believe the random mutations provided for selection to be the same.

But I'm no biologist so I look forward to somone more qualified than myself to correct me if I'm wrong.
In doing the genetic engineering, you would show that random mutations could not do it.
Dog breading falls somewhere in between the 2.

It is not just the growth gene that makes it imposoble to make a very large dog. Almost all the systems in the dog would have to modified eventually.
To accommodate the larger body and to provide blood to that larger body, the heart will need to be larger to pump the blood. But then the arteries, blood vessels, capillaries would need to be widened to keep the increased blood pressure from causing stroke, etc.
The structural proportions of the bones would need to be changed also.
At a certain size, the dog would have a problem raising its head up and down.
The giraffe has special valves that regulate blood flood to do this, which BTW proves the giraffe did not evolve.
 

McBell

Unbound
The only difference between genetic engineering and natural selection that I'm aware of is that in genetic engineering you have a person doing the selecting whilst in natural selection you have an environment doing the selecting.

Apart from that I believe the random mutations provided for selection to be the same.

But I'm no biologist so I look forward to somone more qualified than myself to correct me if I'm wrong.
Ah, but see, in natural selection it is god doing the selecting.
In genetic engineering it is man doing the selecting.
And since man is not equal to god, genetic engineering is oft times demonized as "Playing God".
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Lord Jesus Christ is the most documented historical figure from ancient times.
It's still undetermined whether somebody closely resembling the man depicted in the Gospels ever existed. When a life is well documented, there is no reasonable doubt that such a life was lived by an actual person. We don't doubt that Muhammad lived, nor George Washington, nor Napoleon, and a century from now, there will be no doubt that Joe Biden was a real figure from history who did the things reported in the news and summarized in subsequent biographies.

Jesus doesn't have the same status of any of those. His status is closer to King Arthur's: King Arthur - Wikipedia
A man, whose career is a homicide detective, also analyzed the 4 gospel accounts using the same techniques that investigators use with eye witness records and determined that they are true eye witness accounts even to the very words of Jesus Christ. The author is Warner Wallace. He did this starting as an atheist.
Why should that matter to the critical thinker? Your man had no forensic evidence. What convinces such a person is irrelevant to the critical thinker unless that same evidence convinces him as well. If he understands it differently, then he rejects this other person's conclusions. To believe this detective's claims is a kind of reverse ad hominem fallacy (or argument from authority) - "He must be right because he's a detective, s I can skip reviewing his evidence and argument and just believe him."
Mao, Stain and Hitler all committed genocide. They were all socialists or communists and evolutionists.
Stalin and Hitler were raised as Christians.
Almost all the early evolutionists were racists.
What you call evolutionists are people that accept science. Racism tends to cluster among the low-information demographic that rejects science, like MAGA.
the God of the Bible condoned having bondservants. it was about a remedy for loss of property
The god of Abraham condoned chattel slavery, where people were considered property that could be bought and sold, their spouses and children sold, their labor stolen, and who could be beaten. That's the god you worship, isn't it - the one in the Bible?
Or God did it .... why do you believe that God did not create things to be that way? Or maybe it happened at the fall or after the flood.
What god? I don't see any gods. That's why.
God did not plant false evidence.
Agreed. That evidence refutes the claim that that god exists. If some transhuman intelligent designer deceptively arranged that evidence to appear that evolution had occurred when in fact it hadn't, that still can't be the god of Abraham, unless, as others have suggested, you want to call that god a liar. It allegedly claimed to create the universe and man within a week. It didn't, therefore, either it doesn't exist or it has lied to man and taken credit for things it didn't do.
Remember Satan deceives the whole world.
Just people willing to believe that such a thing happens, and it's not Satan deceiving them strictly speaking. It's their Bibles and those preaching from them.
They have been breading horses for vey many years and yet, there is a limit on their speed and endurance. I just refuted macro evolution forever.
You can't. Your "refutations" are essentially empty claims accompanied by lists of irrelevant questions.
The old circular reasoning fallacy. Sorry but God Almighty can do all things.
How do you know this? Because the Bible tells you so?
all are descended from Adam and Eve
That myth has been falsified. There was no first pair of human beings created de novo. All human beings have nonhuman ancestors.
What was the first living thing made of? Was it DNA? Was it RNA? Was it just proteins? Was it some mix?
Why don't you know what the first living things were made of? The scientific community does, and textbooks have been created that summarize that for you.

Maybe you should get yourself an education rather than asking others who have to tutor you. That's how they learned the answers to these questions. Do you live near a university? If not, perhaps you can self-study online.
That post was so scientifically insightful.
My post contained no science at all. I'm not surprised that you took nothing home from it except for incorrectly calling it science. That was predicted. Do you recall my comment that I don't believe that anything I could write would benefit you?
There's no reason to think that you know what "rational moral reasoning" actually is.
He doesn't need your approval.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
It's still undetermined whether somebody closely resembling the man depicted in the Gospels ever existed. When a life is well documented, there is no reasonable doubt that such a life was lived by an actual person. We don't doubt that Muhammad lived, nor George Washington, nor Napoleon, and a century from now, there will be no doubt that Joe Biden was a real figure from history who did the things reported in the news and summarized in subsequent biographies.

Jesus doesn't have the same status of any of those. His status is closer to King Arthur's: King Arthur - Wikipedia

Why should that matter to the critical thinker? Your man had no forensic evidence. What convinces such a person is irrelevant to the critical thinker unless that same evidence convinces him as well. If he understands it differently, then he rejects this other person's conclusions. To believe this detective's claims is a kind of reverse ad hominem fallacy (or argument from authority) - "He must be right because he's a detective, s I can skip reviewing his evidence and argument and just believe him."

Stalin and Hitler were raised as Christians.

What you call evolutionists are people that accept science. Racism tends to cluster among the low-information demographic that rejects science, like MAGA.

The god of Abraham condoned chattel slavery, where people were considered property that could be bought and sold, their spouses and children sold, their labor stolen, and who could be beaten. That's the god you worship, isn't it - the one in the Bible?

What god? I don't see any gods. That's why.

Agreed. That evidence refutes the claim that that god exists. If some transhuman intelligent designer deceptively arranged that evidence to appear that evolution had occurred when in fact it hadn't, that still can't be the god of Abraham, unless, as others have suggested, you want to call that god a liar. It allegedly claimed to create the universe and man within a week. It didn't, therefore, either it doesn't exist or it has lied to man and taken credit for things it didn't do.

Just people willing to believe that such a thing happens, and it's not Satan deceiving them strictly speaking. It's their Bibles and those preaching from them.

You can't. Your "refutations" are essentially empty claims accompanied by lists of irrelevant questions.

How do you know this? Because the Bible tells you so?

That myth has been falsified. There was no first pair of human beings created de novo. All human beings have nonhuman ancestors.

Why don't you know what the first living things were made of? The scientific community does, and textbooks have been created that summarize that for you.

Maybe you should get yourself an education rather than asking others who have to tutor you. That's how they learned the answers to these questions. Do you live near a university? If not, perhaps you can self-study online.

My post contained no science at all. I'm not surprised that you took nothing home from it except for incorrectly calling it science. That was predicted. Do you recall my comment that I don't believe that anything I could write would benefit you?

He doesn't need your approval.
The unsaved do not know the word of God or the gospel of Christ. That is what the word of God says.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Cor 2:10-16
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The point is that the actual context supports my claim that the language about deity that is used by Christianity is ambiguous. This ambiguity is the foundation of false doctrine like the doctrine of the Trinity.
I can't argue with that since I have concluded from my studies that God is not a compendium of three persons equal to each other forming one godhead or something like that. With one caveat. Not all claiming to be Christian believe that God is a triune godhead.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In doing the genetic engineering, you would show that random mutations could not do it.
No you would not, because genetic engineering requires the same random mutations in my view.
Dog breading falls somewhere in between the 2.

It is not just the growth gene that makes it imposoble to make a very large dog. Almost all the systems in the dog would have to modified eventually.
To accommodate the larger body and to provide blood to that larger body, the heart will need to be larger to pump the blood. But then the arteries, blood vessels, capillaries would need to be widened to keep the increased blood pressure from causing stroke, etc.
The structural proportions of the bones would need to be changed also.
None of those modifications have been shown to be difficult in making larger dog breeds so far in my view.
At a certain size, the dog would have a problem raising its head up and down.
The giraffe has special valves that regulate blood flood to do this, which BTW proves the giraffe did not evolve.
Actually it doesn't as those valves could have evolved as I see it.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
I can't argue with that since I have concluded from my studies that God is not a compendium of three persons equal to each other forming one godhead or something like that. With one caveat. Not all claiming to be Christian believe that God is a triune godhead.
The Trinity is only the official form of the more informal belief that "there is a God, and it isn't you". Elohim can include men like Moses, and Elohim is associated with the living, not the dead, which is problematic for the doctrine of the resurrection.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Everlasting torment in the lake of fire.

Does Jesus claim the punishment is everlasting ? Something tells me the Catholics beg to differ ... but what do I know - show your work :)


So unless I am 'saved', your god is going to put me in a lake of fire for all eternity?

Yes -- the "Free Pass" ideology of those Saved by Lord Martin. All one needs do is cry out "Lord Lord" a few times while someone pours water on your head and .. you get a free pass through Judgement according to these folks.

Unfortunately - according to James and his Brother Jesus -- those who believe in "Faith Alone" are "Foolish" James 2 and Matt 7 respectively.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
Does Jesus claim the punishment is everlasting ? Something tells me the Catholics beg to differ ... but what do I know - show your work :)




Yes -- the "Free Pass" ideology of those Saved by Lord Martin. All one needs do is cry out "Lord Lord" a few times while someone pours water on your head and .. you get a free pass through Judgement according to these folks.

Unfortunately - according to James and his Brother Jesus -- those who believe in "Faith Alone" are "Foolish" James 2 and Matt 7 respectively.
All my sins were punished about 2000 years ago on the cross as God my Father poured out His wrath on His own Son .
And Christ had the most to say about hell than anyone as He lovingly warned about it.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Everlasting torment in the lake of fire.
This again? That's for YOU and anybody else willing to believe that toothless threat to worry about.

"To the philosophy of atheism belongs the credit of robbing death of its horror and its terror. It brought about the abolition of Hell." - Joseph Lewis
All my sins were punished about 2000 years ago on the cross as God my Father poured out His wrath on His own Son .
Interesting choice of words. In my church, we were told that our sins were paid for, not punished, and that the crucifixion was depicted as a sacrifice and act of love, not an act of wrath.
Christ had the most to say about hell than anyone as He lovingly warned about it.
This gets us back to the Christian concept of love. Here, love is building a torture pit, stocking it full of demons and fire, and tossing people into it after "warning" them to comply with assorted commandments or else. "Why did you force me to hurt you?" asks the abusive boyfriend and this god. I'm also shocked at what passes for love in, "Love the sinner, hate the sin," which manifests as hating the sinner. Depicting a blood sacrifice as an act of love is pretty off-putting as well.
 
Top