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Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God.

joelr

Well-Known Member
A rational mind should be able to see that eyesight, and hearing, and taste, and all the different body systems we have, etc. don't just develop because it would come in handy. A rational mind should be able to see that life doesn't come from an explosion. How can all the different seasons, and planets, and gravity, and rainfall, and temperatures being just what we need, and plants that grow food that we can eat and even tastes good, just happen to be here? And some plants even produce material we can use for clothing.
These are some old school apologetics, you really don't know the answers to these?

Do you have any idea how many animals and even hominids up to humans, died as a result of not being able to survive among the various conditions you named? We are part of the line of hominids who got the correct genes to continue to survive. And you are going to sit back and say it was all created for your comfort?

Early hominids lost body hair in favor of a different cooling system, sweating. If there were no animal skin or plants to make clothing, or we were not smart enough to figure it out, the hair loss would have stopped because every hominid carrying the gene would have died from exposure. And that would be it for hairless humans.


It wasn't false. He said there is no human being alive that did not have humans for parents. That would be putting man in a position of always existing. Something that can't be proven. Just like you say we can't prove there is a God. Now you are changing it to hominids.
Richard Dawkins said this. The change is gradual, not infinite. Heidelburgensis slowly changed into Sapien over a long period. But we still see evidence of a similar thing with Neanderthal DNA is some humans -

"The percentage of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is zero or close to zero in people from African populations, and is about 1 to 2 percent in people of European or Asian background"

So these are humans with a little Neanderthal. But still only modern human. It isn't a matter of changing into a new species overnight. There are gradients.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
These are some old school apologetics, you really don't know the answers to these?

Do you have any idea how many animals and even hominids up to humans, died as a result of not being able to survive among the various conditions you named? We are part of the line of hominids who got the correct genes to continue to survive. And you are going to sit back and say it was all created for your comfort?

Early hominids lost body hair in favor of a different cooling system, sweating. If there were no animal skin or plants to make clothing, or we were not smart enough to figure it out, the hair loss would have stopped because every hominid carrying the gene would have died from exposure. And that would be it for hairless humans.



Richard Dawkins said this. The change is gradual, not infinite. Heidelburgensis slowly changed into Sapien over a long period. But we still see evidence of a similar thing with Neanderthal DNA is some humans -

"The percentage of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is zero or close to zero in people from African populations, and is about 1 to 2 percent in people of European or Asian background"

So these are humans with a little Neanderthal. But still only modern human. It isn't a matter of changing into a new species overnight. There are gradients.
Just making up stories now and passing off as evidence. The millions of missing chains of missing links are all still missing in the fossil record. And there are no partially developed organs in living things today. So, macroevolution is not happening and has not happened in the past. And the genetics stops all jumps. So evolution is false and the billions of years speculation is falsified also.
 

Secret Chief

Veteran Member
Just making up stories now and passing off as evidence. The millions of missing chains of missing links are all still missing in the fossil record. And there are no partially developed organs in living things today. So, macroevolution is not happening and has not happened in the past. And the genetics stops all jumps. So evolution is false and the billions of years speculation is falsified also.
Were you home-schooled?
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
These are some old school apologetics, you really don't know the answers to these?

Do you have any idea how many animals and even hominids up to humans, died as a result of not being able to survive among the various conditions you named? We are part of the line of hominids who got the correct genes to continue to survive. And you are going to sit back and say it was all created for your comfort?

Early hominids lost body hair in favor of a different cooling system, sweating. If there were no animal skin or plants to make clothing, or we were not smart enough to figure it out, the hair loss would have stopped because every hominid carrying the gene would have died from exposure. And that would be it for hairless humans.



Richard Dawkins said this. The change is gradual, not infinite. Heidelburgensis slowly changed into Sapien over a long period. But we still see evidence of a similar thing with Neanderthal DNA is some humans -

"The percentage of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is zero or close to zero in people from African populations, and is about 1 to 2 percent in people of European or Asian background"

So these are humans with a little Neanderthal. But still only modern human. It isn't a matter of changing into a new species overnight. There are gradients.
To me you are comparing apples with oranges. I'm not saying something like a dark haired predator can't be eliminated from a region that always has snow, because it can't sneak up on its prey to survive. That's a totally different kind of evolution. I am talking about getting something like eyesight or hearing to begin with. Just because it would be convenient wouldn't make it evolve. Why has man not evolved to be able to fly? Why don't we have eyes in the back of our head so we can see anything sneaking up on us? So, why would eyesight or hearing just magically evolve?
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
You don't know that and I don't believe it. You have simply decided to believe in a god, and if by "God" you mean the god of Abraham, science has already ruled out creation lasting a week and including a first pair of humans. If a god or gods exist, it isn't/they aren't that one. And with the ruling out of THAT god, we've ruled out that things it allegedly believed (man is a sinner in need of salvation) and created (heaven, hell, Satan) don't exist, either. Those unable to see that and who instead still worship that deity are prisoners to false claims about reality.

You're wrong again, whatever you think you see.

It's a paradox called the sorites paradox that occurs with vague predicates like human, which isn't defined precisely, or red, or daylight. There is no wavelength of red that were it slightly shorter or longer wouldn't still be red. There is no precise moment when day breaks such that one can say a second earlier is night. Or consider predicates like beard and bald. There is no precise moment when a non-beard becomes a beard, and there is no single hair falling out that makes a man go from having hair to being bald. None of these words is clearly demarcated with a sharp line that one can use to decide the instant when transitioning processes begin and end.

Sure it is. You believe in a god that will punish those that didn't believe in it at the time of death. Without the threat of hell, why would anybody be a part of that religion? Heaven isn't appealing. Have you ever asked yourself what all of those fallen angels saw that made them rebel? They were obviously looking for something different and better.

Empiricists rely on their senses and reasoning ability for knowledge and to discern truth. There is no other way to learn about how the world is and how it works, and that includes one's body and mind.

You already know the answer: natural selection applied to undirected genetic variation over geological time.

Actually, that's exactly why they exist. They promote survival.

Do you see the universe exploding around you?

We evolved to conform to earth's conditions. Why do we consider blue skies beautiful but not orange ones like on Mars? Because we evolved where the sky looks blue. If earth's sky looked orange, then that would be the color that made us happy.

Have you heard about the rain puddle that wondered why the hole it formed in was the exact same shape as its lower surface? What were the odds of that happening?
Here's the thing - I do know God is real. I can't prove it to you that he is real, but God has proven to me that he is real. How? you might ask. I have done what he said in his word and he has answered me multiple times. I have been healed several times in such a way that I was positive it was him.

I had another time where I was alone in my house, so there is no way anyone heard me. I had a bad problem really bothering me. I knelt beside my bed and sincerely cried out to God about my problem. When I got to church, I was ushering that day, but I stepped inside to hear what was being said. Our minister said - "I don't know why I am saying this. It doesn't have anything to do with the lesson today. I just felt to." And he gave the answer to what I had cried out to God about.

As far as your evolution theory, I just don't believe it. Evolution is just a man made theory - It can't be proven. It can't even be proven that eyesight or hearing, or even teeth for that matter, just evolved either.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I do know God is real.
I know that you believe that, but I don't believe that you know any more about gods than I or any other human being does.
I can't prove it to you that he is real
I know. What other things do you claim are real about the world without having being able to support your claim apart from unfalsifiable religious claims or other kinds of magical thinking? None, probably.
God has proven to me that he is real. How? you might ask. I have done what he said in his word and he has answered me multiple times.
I also don't believe that you were heard or answered by a god. I left Christianity and my life was "blessed." What's that evidence of? I say that it's evidence that I made the right choice, since even if a god of sorts exists, it must either be unaware of me, indifferent to me, unable to affect me, or supportive of my decision.
I have been healed several times in such a way that I was positive it was him.
I believe that you are positive. I just don't believe you are correct. It's not like you're positive that the sun is shining on a sunny day, in which case I would believe that you might be lying, but that it wasn't possible that you were telling the truth, were certain that you were correct, but weren't. This is certitude about something you can't see, hear, or touch, nor demonstrate to others, so it really doesn't matter to your claim how certain you are.
As far as your evolution theory, I just don't believe it.
That's fine. You've lived this long with your beliefs, and I'm sure that you can make it to the end with them still intact. I have neither the ability nor the desire to change your mind if you're happy with what you have and make decisions about what is true by faith.
Evolution is just a man made theory - It can't be proven.
Nor need it be proven. It has been demonstrated to be correct beyond reasonable doubt. The creationist would need to "prove" his claims or falsify the naturalistic theories and hypotheses, and even accomplishing the latter - let's say that the theory were falsified tomorrow - doesn't make a supernatural explanation more likely that another naturalistic explanation, nor does it restore the god of Abraham to a possibility. That god allegedly created reality as man found it in under a week, and with it, a first pair of human beings. We know that that didn't happen.

We're at the point now where we can say that the only way that the existing evidence could possible be understood is that biological evolution occurred naturalistically as the theory suggests, or a massive fraud has perpetrated against man involving some superhuman presence to orchestrate the deception. What else would be possible were the theory falsified? And even then, we would be positing a race of aliens that themselves arose naturalistically through abiogenesis and biological evolution long before man and the earth existed - an idea that is NOT a reasonable one to believe absent that falsification.
It can't even be proven that eyesight or hearing, or even teeth for that matter, just evolved either.
Same answer.

Also, proof isn't your currency for belief. Nor is evidence, so requiring it of scientific theories before believing them is a little insincere. If you can believe in a god by faith, then you can be a atheist by faith. If you can believe in creationism by faith, then you can believe the science by faith.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
You don't know that and I don't believe it. You have simply decided to believe in a god, and if by "God" you mean the god of Abraham, science has already ruled out creation lasting a week and including a first pair of humans. If a god or gods exist, it isn't/they aren't that one. And with the ruling out of THAT god, we've ruled out that things it allegedly believed (man is a sinner in need of salvation) and created (heaven, hell, Satan) don't exist, either. Those unable to see that and who instead still worship that deity are prisoners to false claims about reality.
I forgot to comment on science ruling out creation.

Just for the sake of argument - accept that God did create everything as the scriptures say:

If God created Adam in a state where he was mature enough to take care of himself. And it was possible for a scientist to have examined Adam the very next day. What would the scientist have said his age was? (Maybe 16 or 18 or 20 - right?) Would the scientist be correct if he said anything other than one day old?

It's possible God created things in such a way that they appear much older than they really are.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
I know that you believe that, but I don't believe that you know any more about gods than I or any other human being does.

I know. What other things do you claim are real about the world without having being able to support your claim apart from unfalsifiable religious claims or other kinds of magical thinking? None, probably.

I also don't believe that you were heard or answered by a god. I left Christianity and my life was "blessed." What's that evidence of? I say that it's evidence that I made the right choice, since even if a god of sorts exists, it must either be unaware of me, indifferent to me, unable to affect me, or supportive of my decision.

I believe that you are positive. I just don't believe you are correct. It's not like you're positive that the sun is shining on a sunny day, in which case I would believe that you might be lying, but that it wasn't possible that you were telling the truth, were certain that you were correct, but weren't. This is certitude about something you can't see, hear, or touch, nor demonstrate to others, so it really doesn't matter to your claim how certain you are.

That's fine. You've lived this long with your beliefs, and I'm sure that you can make it to the end with them still intact. I have neither the ability nor the desire to change your mind if you're happy with what you have and make decisions about what is true by faith.

Nor need it be proven. It has been demonstrated to be correct beyond reasonable doubt. The creationist would need to "prove" his claims or falsify the naturalistic theories and hypotheses, and even accomplishing the latter - let's say that the theory were falsified tomorrow - doesn't make a supernatural explanation more likely that another naturalistic explanation, nor does it restore the god of Abraham to a possibility. That god allegedly created reality as man found it in under a week, and with it, a first pair of human beings. We know that that didn't happen.

We're at the point now where we can say that the only way that the existing evidence could possible be understood is that biological evolution occurred naturalistically as the theory suggests, or a massive fraud has perpetrated against man involving some superhuman presence to orchestrate the deception. What else would be possible were the theory falsified? And even then, we would be positing a race of aliens that themselves arose naturalistically through abiogenesis and biological evolution long before man and the earth existed - an idea that is NOT a reasonable one to believe absent that falsification.

Same answer.

Also, proof isn't your currency for belief. Nor is evidence, so requiring it of scientific theories before believing them is a little insincere. If you can believe in a god by faith, then you can be a atheist by faith. If you can believe in creationism by faith, then you can believe the science by faith.
Like I said God has proved himself to me. I expect evidence from science, and from God. He has given me evidence that he is real. That's what matters to me. I accept that you don't believe, and am definitely not trying to force you to believe. Have a good day.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
To me you are comparing apples with oranges. I'm not saying something like a dark haired predator can't be eliminated from a region that always has snow, because it can't sneak up on its prey to survive. That's a totally different kind of evolution. I am talking about getting something like eyesight or hearing to begin with.
There is only one form of evolution. And how sight evolved is explained, and your ignorance on the matter only tells us you either 1. were not paying attention in science class, or 2. did not go to a school that taught biology and other sciences, or 3. learned the science but rejected it due to toxic Christian. Whatever happens to creationists that they form wrong beliefs aboit how nature works it is due to their exposure to toxic Christianity.
Just because it would be convenient wouldn't make it evolve.
That is not how it works. Why bother posting on an issue with well educated people, it only exposes your flawed beliefs.
Why has man not evolved to be able to fly?
Why don't you look it up?

It's because the branch of evolving animals that includes humans did not have the mutations that made that an advantage. The only mammal that can really fly are bats, and they are more related to humans than birds.
Why don't we have eyes in the back of our head so we can see anything sneaking up on us? So, why would eyesight or hearing just magically evolve?
Seriously?

If you want to ask real questions why not answer why some children are born with genes that cause them cancer or other fatal diseases? If God created all life s it is, then explain why God does that?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I forgot to comment on science ruling out creation.

Just for the sake of argument - accept that God did create everything as the scriptures say:

If God created Adam in a state where he was mature enough to take care of himself. And it was possible for a scientist to have examined Adam the very next day. What would the scientist have said his age was? (Maybe 16 or 18 or 20 - right?) Would the scientist be correct if he said anything other than one day old?

It's possible God created things in such a way that they appear much older than they really are.
My, what a tricky God you have there.

Most anything can be claimed to be possible. For example, is it possible your religious beliefs are completely wrong? Could you be mistaken for trusting what other Christians told you?

Let's note that what you offer as "possible" is highly unlikely since we have evidence that contradicts your scenario. But what I offer is not only possible, but highly probable given that evidence informs us that your religious beliefs are not true.

The reason rational minds follow evidence and not religious dogma is because there are many conflictiong religious dogmas, and they seldom have consistency with what is observed as real and true.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Here's the thing - I do know God is real. I can't prove it to you that he is real, but God has proven to me that he is real.
If you can't prove it to rational minds then how were you so easily convinced? Is it possible you were just overly willing to believe, and did not subject he ideas of God you accepted to adequate scrutiny? Do you accept that the hundreds of Hindu gods exist?

How? you might ask. I have done what he said in his word and he has answered me multiple times. I have been healed several times in such a way that I was positive it was him.
Is it possible you just wanted to believe, and the Christians around you told you things you adopted? Is it possble the "answer" you got from God was created in your own mind?
I had another time where I was alone in my house, so there is no way anyone heard me. I had a bad problem really bothering me. I knelt beside my bed and sincerely cried out to God about my problem. When I got to church, I was ushering that day, but I stepped inside to hear what was being said. Our minister said - "I don't know why I am saying this. It doesn't have anything to do with the lesson today. I just felt to." And he gave the answer to what I had cried out to God about.
Why are you so special, but the children dying from cancer don't get any answers or miracle cures? Is it possible what you believe above is your own mind and religious community helping resolve your distress? How do you explain atheists able to get along very well in life without appealing to the gods and a religious community?
As far as your evolution theory, I just don't believe it.
Someone lied to you.

Believers don't reject science due to better reasoning than scientists, they due so because they have been influenced by toxic Christianity. Do you really think your religious beliefs are more valid than science? Remember, not all Christians reject evolution. The only ones who reject evolution are extreme Christian sects, and some Muslims. The rest of the world accepts the results of science.
Evolution is just a man made theory - It can't be proven.
So you lack knowledge of what a theory is, yet you have no problem rejecting the theory of evolution? How would you know what you are rejecting without knowledge?
It can't even be proven that eyesight or hearing, or even teeth for that matter, just evolved either.
The science is available for you to read if you weren't so indoctrinated in a toxic Christian belief. Who lied to you about science?
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
If you can't prove it to rational minds then how were you so easily convinced? Is it possible you were just overly willing to believe, and did not subject he ideas of God you accepted to adequate scrutiny? Do you accept that the hundreds of Hindu gods exist?


Is it possible you just wanted to believe, and the Christians around you told you things you adopted? Is it possble the "answer" you got from God was created in your own mind?

Why are you so special, but the children dying from cancer don't get any answers or miracle cures? Is it possible what you believe above is your own mind and religious community helping resolve your distress? How do you explain atheists able to get along very well in life without appealing to the gods and a religious community?

Someone lied to you.

Believers don't reject science due to better reasoning than scientists, they due so because they have been influenced by toxic Christianity. Do you really think your religious beliefs are more valid than science? Remember, not all Christians reject evolution. The only ones who reject evolution are extreme Christian sects, and some Muslims. The rest of the world accepts the results of science.

So you lack knowledge of what a theory is, yet you have no problem rejecting the theory of evolution? How would you know what you are rejecting without knowledge?

The science is available for you to read if you weren't so indoctrinated in a toxic Christian belief. Who lied to you about science?
You seem to be very bitter. So I don't believe I will interact with you unless you can tame it down.

I have no problem whatsoever with you disagreeing with me. But I try to be respectful and hope for that from anyone debating with me.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
You seem to be very bitter. So I don't believe I will interact with you unless you can tame it down.
Why are you struggling if you have the advantage of the Truth? I find it interesting how quickly some believers retreat from debate and hard questions after they have been very confident in their claims. If you don't have answers to rebut what I stated then just admit it.
I have no problem whatsoever with you disagreeing with me. But I try to be respectful and hope for that from anyone debating with me.
You are confusing my challenging your claims with disrespect. I am not obligated to make the same assumptions you have. What I notice here is your avoiding answering my questions, and rebutting my statements of fact. You can be respectful by answering questions after you made rather fantastic claims.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
A rational mind should be able to see that eyesight, and hearing, and taste, and all the different body systems we have, etc. don't just develop because it would come in handy. A rational mind should be able to see that life doesn't come from an explosion. How can all the different seasons, and planets, and gravity, and rainfall, and temperatures being just what we need, and plants that grow food that we can eat and even tastes good, just happen to be here? And some plants even produce material we can use for clothing.
Perhaps you don't have an adequate concept of time - as to the Earth being around for about four and a half billion years (4,500,000,000) - and with life developing slowly from the smallest possible example of such and expanding/evolving into the variety we see around us today - with much lost to the past because they became extinct. Small changes over time explains much - to those who are rational of course. :rolleyes:

And the 'appearance' perspective - it all looks like God created the Earth and all life - simply demands a more rigorous look at the evidence, given that when one does get involved with the appropriate sciences, explanations as to why things evolve and seemingly become the norm will be given - and not just as convenient explanations but as ones that adequately describe the processes involved. Given that you seem to be rather adverse to actually believing any scientific evidence - even if the scientists of the world are mostly very much in agreement.

One reason why aspects of biology change seems to be change of use. That is, that something that evolved for one particular reason - feathers for warmth - subsequently gets used for another purpose - flight. Would that be planned in any way or just an animal changing its behaviour and not even knowing what this might lead to?
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I forgot to comment on science ruling out creation.
What I said is that science falsified the creation myth in Genesis. That doesn't rule out intelligent design, just the accounts that are specific enough to be falsifiable and falsified, which is all of them that have character performing acts of creation. Stories like these are also ruled out:

"The mighty Marduk took his club and split Tiamat’s body in half. He placed half of her body in the sky and made the heavens (space). He created the moon to guard the heavens, and set it moving back and forth, on endless (time) patrol (energy). With the other half of Tiamat's body he made the land.(matter) "

or

"Odin, Vili, and Vé killed the giant Ymir. The sons of Bor then ... made the world (matter) from him. From his blood they made the sea and the lakes; from his flesh the earth; from his hair the trees; and from his bones the mountains. They made rocks and pebbles from his teeth and jaws and those bones that were broken. Maggots appeared in Ymir's flesh and came to life (life). By the decree of the gods they acquired human understanding and the appearance of men"

But we can't say from our existing science that a creator god like the deist deity did or didn't create and set the universe in motion if there are no specific claims beyond that made. Such a story would unfalsifiable, but also irrelevant knowing whether such a god existed or had a hand in setting off universal expansion (more on that below).

Just for the sake of argument - accept that God did create everything as the scriptures say: If God created Adam in a state where he was mature enough to take care of himself. And it was possible for a scientist to have examined Adam the very next day. What would the scientist have said his age was? (Maybe 16 or 18 or 20 - right?) Would the scientist be correct if he said anything other than one day old?
What memories was the scientist created with? Does he know that the kids were created the day before. Does he know that he's much less than a week old himself?
It's possible God created things in such a way that they appear much older than they really are.
Yes, a situation called Last Thursdayism. Just as with the contrast between a deist creator and a naturalistic understanding of the universe, the two universes predicted with and without Last Thursdayim are indistinguishable, and having an accurate answer just would be helpful or change anything.

Your turn: Just for the sake of argument, let's say that the universe was created last Thursday just as we find it, complete with people with long memories, redshifted incoming starlight, and old-appearing fossils that can be radiodated to times that never existed thanks to a clever creator making them that way. You couldn't decide whether that had happened. To distinguish between competing hypotheses, they need to predict different universes, which differences can be tested empirically to rule one in and the other out.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Just making up stories now and passing off as evidence.
Oh, sorry I didn't tell you, I peer-reviewed my post.





The millions of missing chains of missing links are all still missing in the fossil record.

So what? We also have actual fossil records, especially the hominid line we come from.


For the first, four million years or so of hominin evolution, the hominin fossil record is characterized by, among other trends, canine reduction and postcranial metamorphosis in the following genera: Sahelanthropus, Orrorin, Ardipithecus, Australopithecus, and Paranthropus. As the Pliocene epoch came to a close and global climate was shifting at about 2.5 million years ago (deMenocal 2004), there is a concomitant change in the hominin fossil record. In this increasingly cooler world, something new, both anatomically and behaviorally, emerged. This is the origin of the genus Homo.






"Scientists say that only one in a thousand species that have ever lived survives today. The other 99.9 percent are extinct, gone forever. "

"The fossil record is our history book of Earth’s extinct species. "

And there are no partially developed organs in living things today.
That's because evolution is real. There are never "partially developed organs"? Evolution doesn't slowly create organisms until they are finished? That would be more like if a creator was making people. But we don't see that.
Evolution didn't provide us with a partial arm in anticipation of a fully developed arm down the road. We didn't sprout a bicep, then a forearm, and finally a hand to complete our limbs. Genetics just doesn't work that way. If an organism doesn't have any limbs to begin with, it's not going to create a monstrosity with a partial human limb. Evolution only works incrementally, and every step has to be functional, or else the organism won't survive to reproduce.

But while everything is functioning, it also often barely just gets the job done enough for us to survive and reproduce, it doesn't care as much about perfecting parts unless it plays a role in evolution.
Cataracts, flimsy ACLs, the inability to clear lactic acid from muscles faster than it builds up, ear infections in babies, sprained ankles, detrimental buildup of body fat, stubby fingers, clumsiness, detrimentally large breasts, early onset male pattern baldness, baldness in women, diabetes, cancer, general ugliness, funny voices, snoring,

This is not an argument against evolution. It's a point that creationists who never studied evolution at all think makes sense. It's actually the opposite.



So, macroevolution is not happening and has not happened in the past.

Humans are great apes morphologically, behaviorally and genetically we are great apes. We evolved from other hominids. The fossil record shows this, our genetics show this, our behavior and bodies show this.


I'm still waiting for the evidence that shows evolution and a 5 billion year old earth is false.




And the genetics stops all jumps.
No we have very similar genetics to our other ape ancestors.




So evolution is false and the billions of years speculation is falsified also.
You still haven't produced any evidence to either? Please provide evidence that proves evolution is false and also evidence to explain why we see fossils, genetics and all evidence in favor of evolution, even though it's false. You have to also explain why we see that.


Then you need evidence for a young earth and you have to explain radio dating and other things that show an old earth.

Erosion


Geochronology

Geochronology is the science of determining the absolute age of rocks, fossils, and sediments by a variety of techniques. These methods indicate that the Earth as a whole is about 4.54 billion years old, and that the strata that, according to flood geology, were laid down during the Flood some 6,000 years ago, were actually deposited gradually over many millions of years.



Physics


Dating

Ancient rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years in age are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are the Acasta Gneisses in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake (4.03 Ga) and the Isua Supracrustal rocks in West Greenland (3.7 to 3.8 Ga), but well-studied rocks nearly as old are also found in the Minnesota River Valley and northern Michigan (3.5-3.7 billion years), in Swaziland (3.4-3.5 billion years), and in Western Australia (3.4-3.6 billion years). [See Editor's Note.] These ancient rocks have been dated by a number of radiometric dating methods and the consistency of the results give scientists confidence that the ages are correct to within a few percent. An interesting feature of these ancient rocks is that they are not from any sort of "primordial crust" but are lava flows and sediments deposited in shallow water, an indication that Earth history began well before these rocks were deposited. In Western Australia, single zircon crystals found in younger sedimentary rocks have radiometric ages of as much as 4.3 billion years, making these tiny crystals the oldest materials to be found on Earth so far. The source rocks for these zircon crystals have not yet been found. The ages measured for Earth's oldest rocks and oldest crystals show that the Earth is at least 4.3 billion years in age but do not reveal the exact age of Earth's formation. The best age for the Earth (4.54 Ga) is based on old, presumed single-stage leads coupled with the Pb ratios in troilite from iron meteorites, specifically the Canyon Diablo meteorite. In addition, mineral grains (zircon) with U-Pb ages of 4.4 Ga have recently been reported from sedimentary rocks in west-central Australia. The Moon is a more primitive planet than Earth because it has not been disturbed by plate tectonics; thus, some of its more ancient rocks are more plentiful. Only a small number of rocks were returned to Earth by the six Apollo and three Luna missions. These rocks vary greatly in age, a reflection of their different ages of formation and their subsequent histories. The oldest dated moon rocks, however, have ages between 4.4 and 4.5 billion years and provide a minimum age for the formation of our nearest planetary neighbor. Thousands of meteorites, which are fragments of asteroids that fall to Earth, have been recovered. These primitive objects provide the best ages for the time of formation of the Solar System. There are more than 70 meteorites, of different types, whose ages have been measured using radiometric dating techniques. The results show that the meteorites, and therefore the Solar System, formed between 4.53 and 4.58 billion years ago. The best age for the Earth comes not from dating individual rocks but by considering the Earth and meteorites as part of the same evolving system in which the isotopic composition of lead, specifically the ratio of lead-207 to lead-206 changes over time owing to the decay of radioactive uranium-235 and uranium-238, respectively. Scientists have used this approach to determine the time required for the isotopes in the Earth's oldest lead ores, of which there are only a few, to evolve from its primordial composition, as measured in uranium-free phases of iron meteorites, to its compositions at the time these lead ores separated from their mantle reservoirs. These calculations result in an age for the Earth and meteorites, and hence the Solar System, of 4.54 billion years with an uncertainty of less than 1 percent. To be precise, this age represents the last time that lead isotopes were homogeneous througout the inner Solar System and the time that lead and uranium was incorporated into the solid bodies of the Solar System. The age of 4.54 billion years found for the Solar System and Earth is consistent with current calculations of 11 to 13 billion years for the age of the Milky Way Galaxy (based on the stage of evolution of globular cluster stars) and the age of 10 to 15 billion years for the age of the Universe (based on the recession of distant galaxies).




Most importantly, make sure you peer-review it all as well. I mean, it needs to be peer-reviewed by a scientist panel who are in the field, but of course your peer-review is also needed.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Like I said God has proved himself to me. I expect evidence from science, and from God. He has given me evidence that he is real. That's what matters to me. I accept that you don't believe, and am definitely not trying to force you to believe. Have a good day.
What evidence do you claim to have been given?
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
@joelr

What I have observed is the living system changes to survive.

That exposes the life has an intent. That busts up a bunch of peer review.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
To me you are comparing apples with oranges.
Yes I'm comparing apologetics, which have no evidence in reality, in any way, to a field of science with massive evidence in many many ways.

I'm not saying something like a dark haired predator can't be eliminated from a region that always has snow, because it can't sneak up on its prey to survive. That's a totally different kind of evolution. I am talking about getting something like eyesight or hearing to begin with. Just because it would be convenient wouldn't make it evolve.
Why do all creationists say evolution is false but have no idea what evolution is, how it works, or anything else about the subject?

Things don't evolve for "convenience"?

The eye isn't as complicated as creationist media likes to make it out. It actually evolved several times completely separately in unrelated species.


Why has man not evolved to be able to fly?
Hominids were able to survive, reproduce and find food and shelter. There was no pressure for any Great Apes (including humans) to fly.
Wings come from pre-cursor wing-like limbs that served a purpose. Apes need strong muscular arms, no need to even select mutations that are growing longer, thinner arms and thinner fingers that can lead to wings.

Apes were doing fine, then we added larger brains and we had stronger advantages. Wings don't just start to pop out of animals. There were small tree mammals who were jumping from tree to tree and the mutations that led to thinner bones in their arms and more flesh to catch air while jumping helped those animals survive. So those traits were passed on. Eventually a mutation started growing skin between fingers, a small amount at first and so on. If the mutation is helpful it will stick. If it helps the animal survive in their environment better that it will be more likely to be passed on.

Over thousands of generations a jumping squirrel may evolve a pre-cursor to wings.



Why don't we have eyes in the back of our head so we can see anything sneaking up on us?
Hominids evolved in packs. Being jumped from behind definitely happened but those apes just died.

If there was massive pressure in that way, all apes were being attacked only from behind, they could develop a social skill where they always watch each others back. Or physically mutations that might help would be a stronger skull, more bones on the back, a rear horn, but it wasn't enough of an issue so there was no pressure to evolve different. We survived by being smart.

Evolution isn't magic and it isn't conscious. Mutations happen and they either help or not. You don't just evolve an eye?

Eyes start far before with multi-celled microscopic animals who need to know when another microscopic animal is going to eat it. So one might develop a patch that is sensitive to water movement or photons. If that helps then that animal spreads its genes and over millions of years mutations happen. Most don't help and the creature dies, some may enhance the sensors, develop an area that focuses light and sends it to your brain for it to make a picture in the mind. The eye develops this way over millions of years.

An ape isn't going to just get new eyes in a different spot. They would also be a liability, both sides of the face have openings in the skull, bad idea.





So, why would eyesight or hearing just magically evolve?
Why? Uh, if Gandof cast a spell to give someone more eyes they would magically evolve. Maybe Potter has a spell to give one more eyes?
Dr Strange could do something as well for magic evolution.


In reality these senses start with organisms with a few cells that bonded together and share living duties, one eats, one digests, one protects the outer surface. A mutation may create an area on one cell that responds to soundwaves simply by having some reaction to alert the creature that something might be coming to eat it.
If it works, new additions will emerge, some useless and some will make it more advanced. Many millions of years later you end up with a hearing device that connects to the nervous system, which also evolved and now you can hear, interpret the sound and where it is.

We see the stages in fossils and understand how they evolved. Hearing and seeing is important to find food, catch food, see and hear enemies and predators, see your friends and family. Insect life is one of the first to have basic nervous systems, eyes, hearing

If you really want to understand evolution you should consider listening to an evolutionary biologist who watches creationist media and comments on it, pointing out errors and false beliefs.

I watched another creationist movie - A Matter of Faith | Reacteria​

 
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