Another outrageous prison sentence in the War on Drugs...

[ZiggyZonker]

See druidus? We now have it on authority that you're obviously "doing" spirituality wrong.

As evidenced in the rising instances of diabetes and speculative causes of ADD.

That's deep, ,man... pass the pipe. :jam:

 

[willything]

i wasnt trying to put it ( my logic ) to other things, just rec drugs. i base my logic on the people who have had thier life go down the drain. like a straight A student end up in rehab. or an apprentice who forget to stop cutting and ending up with stitches. the same guy would get payed only to have no $ the next day. oh and lets not forget how many people are in jail because of drug related crimes. as for gay people iv never heard of a little old lady or guy being mugged because they need to support their habbit.yes keep kidding yourself you need drugs for spiritual reasons , just like the guy who told me its to have a good time . take up meditation, or a sport like martial arts. you might just enjoy the challenge.

 

[Druidus]

Forgive me Druidus, but I find your whole concept of "responsible use" to be proposterous.

Indeed. Well, I don't. You are welcome to your opinion. I'll keep mine.

Who sets the rules for what is responsible, Druidus?

Responsibility is relative. I would, however, suggest a few basic rules for the responsible use of psychoactives:

• No driving or operating heavy machinery of any kind.
• No "tripping" in public.
• Limited usage. Set a balance for the amount of money you are willing to spend on psychoactives, and stick to it. Those who can't handle that shouldn't bother with psychoactives.
• Limit your dosages. Never explore new doses without experienced and sober "sitters". Stay within the "safe" range of dosages.
• Continually reassess your usage. If addiction ever appears to be evident, or even if it simply seems to be a likely possibility, psychoactive use should be halted immediately for at least a one month period.
• No mixing of drugs unless it is known that they do not interfere negatively with each other. (No MAOI's with DXM for instance)
• Understand and research the effects of the drug being consumed.
• Weigh every dose actively and take precautions to reduce the chance of overdose.
• Never allow psychoactives to overshadow other aspects of life. Use should be stopped if this becomes apparent.
• Be honest with yourself and with others concerning your drug use (to an extent. Don't admit it if it would cause you legal duress)
• NEVER try to persuade others to utilize a psychoactive. At most, offer them unbiased information and answer questions. Even that is not recommended. Drugs are a personal choice, not something to be forced on someone.
• Never allow yourself to be directly or indirectly responsible for the welfare or wellbeing of another being while under the influence of any psychoactive.
• Never engage in physically hazardous activites while under the influence.

You?

Actually, I do set the definition of responsible for myself.

Am I seriously supposed to accept the "learned" opinion, of someone who has not even reached the legal age to buy or drink alcohol?

To be honest, I am extremely and deeply hurt by this immature and unintelligent comment. Age is no indication, in and of itself, of wisdom or intelligence. Clearly, both of these are usually raised by age, but not necessarily. Much of it also depends on the individual. As well, another aspect of the psyche that seems to rise with age is arrogance. What makes you think I need you to accept my opinion? All I ask is that you allow me to hold it without insulting me personally, especially not with such an asinine comment. Frankly, the respect I held for you, though still considerable, has dropped quite a bit due to that comment. And, indeed, it hurts me that someone I respect so much (and whom I once believed respected me) would consider insulting me on such an arbitrary topic as my age.

(Let alone ramble on about its so-called "spiritual" effects.)

I am as capable as you, if not moreso, at defining, discussing, and forming my opinions on spirituality. If you insist on being childish, I expect you will eventually leave RF. A vast section of the RF populace is young, some younger than I, but this is no reason for them to be patronized or held in contempt/pity. I'm shocked that you would suggest (through your words) otherwise. Drop the holier-than-thou attitude and the moral righteousness. You know no more than anyone else on this path of unknowables. My opinions are as valid as yours. Can't handle it? Then leave.

Am I really supposed to accept their insistance that they have the god given right to fry their brain, any way they see fit?

You are supposed to accept the fact that regardless of your opinions, others will have their own and will act according to them. And your opinions are no better than theirs. So deal with the fact that their opinions may lead them to engage in acts you might consider "self-destructive".

To all the others:

First of all, I understand the risks I take when I engage in a psychoactive journey. This risks are mitigated by the benefits I have achieved. None of you have any idea of these benefits to me on a personal scale. Don't claim to have the be all end all answer to the question.

Drugs are not necessarily damaging. It depends on the particular drug, the frequency of use, and the level of dosage. To say otherwise is to foolishly accept what is handed to you on a platter by mass society and government. Since when has either known what is best for the world?

 

[c0da]

Responsibility is relative. I would, however, suggest a few basic rules for the responsible use of psychoactives:

• No driving or operating heavy machinery of any kind.
• No "tripping" in public.
• Limited usage. Set a balance for the amount of money you are willing to spend on psychoactives, and stick to it. Those who can't handle that shouldn't bother with psychoactives.
• Limit your dosages. Never explore new doses without experienced and sober "sitters". Stay within the "safe" range of dosages.
• Continually reassess your usage. If addiction ever appears to be evident, or even if it simply seems to be a likely possibility, psychoactive use should be halted immediately for at least a one month period.
• No mixing of drugs unless it is known that they do not interfere negatively with each other. (No MAOI's with DXM for instance)
• Understand and research the effects of the drug being consumed.
• Weigh every dose actively and take precautions to reduce the chance of overdose.
• Never allow psychoactives to overshadow other aspects of life. Use should be stopped if this becomes apparent.
• Be honest with yourself and with others concerning your drug use (to an extent. Don't admit it if it would cause you legal duress)
• NEVER try to persuade others to utilize a psychoactive. At most, offer them unbiased information and answer questions. Even that is not recommended. Drugs are a personal choice, not something to be forced on someone.
• Never allow yourself to be directly or indirectly responsible for the welfare or wellbeing of another being while under the influence of any psychoactive.
• Never engage in physically hazardous activites while under the influence.

~

It is fantastic that you consume drugs in such a responsible manner, but do you think there are many people who have a little list of guidelines for how they take their drugs and act once they have taken them?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Forgive me Druidus, but I find your whole concept of "responsible use" to be proposterous. Who sets the rules for what is responsible, Druidus?

That is a ridiculous OPINION, not fact, opinion.

It has been shown a small amount of alcohol consumption is great for your health, one particular drink would be red wine. It well known that drinking too much alcohol will do just the opposite, and ruin your health.
Many people do not pose any threat at all when stoned. Thier are the exceptions that have mental disorders, but for the most part, people are quite harmless while stoned. Getting high once in awhile, such as to celebrate a special occasion, is responisible. Getting stoned all the time to the point when you never in a normal state of mind is irresponsible.

It is fantastic that you consume drugs in such a responsible manner, but do you think there are many people who have a little list of guidelines for how they take their drugs and act once they have taken them?

I have known only a few people who are irresponsible drug users. I know their are more, and I know that some irresponsibilities can lead to extremes, but not everyone is going to kill for drugs.

 

[c0da]

I have known only a few people who are irresponsible drug users. I know their are more, and I know that some irresponsibilities can lead to extremes, but not everyone is going to kill for drugs.

Drug users are damaging themselves aswell as other people.

A small amount of drug use may only affect a few people negatively, but that still doesn't make it right. In my opinion, the negatives of drug abuse outweigh the positives.

 

[mr.guy]

...but that still doesn't make it right.

What is "right" isn't even part of the equation.

 

[Druidus]

Drug users are damaging themselves aswell as other people.

I cannot even begin to explain how this is wrong. Do you know how many anti-depressants I was on before marijuana? Over 20. None really worked. Marijuana has. It has caused my AvPD, depression (cyclical and chronic), and social anxiety to disappear. Ever since I started using marijuana in earnest, roughly six months ago, along with DXM, I gained an entirely new aspect of life: social pleasure.

I've damaged no one. Not even myself. I am more intelligent, more creative, and healthier for my drug use.

Before we debate this further, friend, where do you get your information?

A small amount of drug use may only affect a few people negatively, but that still doesn't make it right.

Schooling effects many in a very negative manner. It caused my several attempted suicides. But because it benefits many, it is retained. Drug use does benefit many, including me. If a person cannot handle drugs, that person should not engage in drug use.

 

[c0da]

I cannot even begin to explain how this is wrong.

Right, so I just imagined what drugs did to a couple of my friends who did drugs.

Do you know how many anti-depressants I was on before marijuana?

You are not a microcosm of the drug taking world.

Before we debate this further, friend, where do you get your information?

Newspaper reports I have seen in the past and things I have been told by my mother (who is a nurse) and some of her medical sources.

edit: There is also a bit of info that can be found on t'interent about drugs.

 

[Druidus]

Right, so I just imagined what drugs did to a couple of my friends who did drugs.

Anecdotal, just as my information was. What drugs were they on? That is also relevant. As well, how did they use them?

You are not a microcosm of the drug taking world.

Of course. But I like being able to live happily. Without marijuana, I would still be unable to do so.

Newspaper reports I have seen in the past and things I have been told by my mother (who is a nurse) and some of her medical sources.

Both are anecdotal (so is the internet).

I get my information from peer-reviewed scientific literature.

By the way, what, praytell, did happen to your friends?

 

[c0da]

I get my information from peer-reviewed scientific literature

Which is published and put on websites and printed in newspapers.

My friends smoked marijuana which acted as a 'stepping stone' drug to coke. I don't speak to them much now, not seen them in a while but when I was speaking to them, they were constantly after money to pay for more.

 

[Druidus]

Which is published and put on websites and printed in newspapers.

Very rarely are unbiased scientific reports put in newspapers, unless the results are in line with public opinion. Yes, some are put online, but most of the internet is opinion, not fact.

My friends smoked marijuana which acted as a 'stepping stone' drug to coke. I don't speak to them much now, not seen them in a while but when I was speaking to them, they were constantly after money to pay for more.

The "stepping stone" or "gateway" drug theory is a falsity. In Amsterdam, after the legalization of marijuana, hard drug use (including alcohol) dropped. It is only logical to assume that the legalization of marijuana in the U.S. and Canada would lead to a reduced rate of hard drug usage.

By the way, the hard drug usage continues to drop. It does not seem to be a temporary thing.

As for your friends... Well, some people are effected in different wayts by different drugs. I've never tried coke (and never will, according to my current plans), and I've never had the yearning to. Cannabis and DXM are enough for me, though I hope one day to try shrooms, acid, and/or ketamine.

 

[c0da]

and/or ketamine

You want to try a medicine designed to tranquilise horses?

Whatever. Its your body.

 

[mr.guy]

though I hope one day to try shrooms, acid, and/or ketamine.

I vote for the shrooms!

 

[Druidus]

You want to try a medicine designed to tranquilise horses?

Whatever. Its your body.

Lower doses are used for humans. And it's a dissociative, not a tranquilizer, though it does have sedative properties, especially in higher doses.

It's never been shown to have significant physical or mental negatives (indeed, even minor damages haven't been shown). The only possible problem would be Olney's Lesions, and even those aren't proven.

Likely, I'll just have a very enriching experience. Dissociating from the self and becoming pure mind with no ego or body can be an amazingly enlightening, fun, and enjoyable experience. I've felt similar, with DXM.

Please, research the drug before you post as if you know much about it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Drug users are damaging themselves aswell as other people.

A small amount of drug use may only affect a few people negatively, but that still doesn't make it right. In my opinion, the negatives of drug abuse outweigh the positives.

I fail to see how smoking alittle weed ocassionally is damaging myself.
Saying "the negatives of an activity out-weigh the positives" can be applied for many things. Fast food for one is very terrible for your health, yet it is legal. Cigarettes are deadlier than pot, and those are legal. Even traffic related deaths are very high, yet the world is highly dependant of cars.

I wish I could live without having to hear things such as "Marijuana is a gateway/make you go mad/highly addicting/kill-you-quicker-than-anything/any other political bs type drug. Heaven forbid I admit to using other drugs, for people will have an even stronger urge to tell me how I am only harming myself, and I am making bad decisions, and I need to quit.
I personally know a few people who were either killed during deals gone bad, and one person who is a fugitive for attempted murder. The thing is, if drugs were legal, thier could be no deals gone bad since you could go into a gas station and order a pack of joints, or into a head shop for a few ounces of coke.

 

[c0da]

Please, research the drug before you post as if you know much about it.

In what way did I post as if i know so much about it? I made one statement. A statement that is correct, Ketamine IS a horse tranquiliser.

Ketamine is damaging and as you mentioned, research into use of the drug has found that it can cause Olney's Lesions

I fail to see how smoking alittle weed ocassionally is damaging myself.

I am not so much against cannabis use, it is harder drugs I disagree with.

 

[Druidus]

In what way did I post as if i know so much about it? I made one statement. A statement that is correct, Ketamine IS a horse tranquiliser.

Sorry, I was in a bad mood. You didn't really post that way, but I was pretty angry at the time. Sorry.

However, it is not technically a horse tranquilizer. It is a dissociative anaesthetic used in veterinary practice to sedate all manner of animals, from cats to dogs to horses.

In lower than sedating doses, it can produce a variety of interesting effects.

As for the Olney's Lesions:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm_health2.shtml

Ketamine has not been shown scientifically to produce Olney's Lesions.

Are they not easily available where you are?

They are not. I cannot obtain anything more than marijuana and DXM where I am now. And it will be a long time before I can experience anything else, unfortunately. The far north isn't a location conducive to a variety of psychoactives.

I assume you have at least read up on them. Yes/no?

Indeed, I have read up on them, and that is why I am eager to try them.

 

[c0da]

They are not. I cannot obtain anything more than marijuana and DXM where I am now. And it will be a long time before I can experience anything else, unfortunately. The far north isn't a location conducive to a variety of psychoactives

I thought shrooms were legal as long as they werent cooked?

Aren't there places you can get them uncooked?