Another question about heaven and hell

[Kerr]

Hi all.

I have a small question about heaven and hell. Will assume they exist and that God exists for this to make sense. Heaven is, from what I understand, supposed to be a place without sorrow or suffering. Hell is the opposite. Everyone cannot make it to heaven so they end up in hell. That means that some peoples loved ones will end up in hell. If someone know their loved one is in hell while they are in heaven, and if heaven is a place without sorrow, something must be keeping that someone from feeling, well, sad. If something is keeping us from feeling sad then that something is messing with our minds. If something is messing with our minds to remove sadness then its manipulating who we are. So what is the point of heaven as a reward and hell as a punishment if something is manipulating our minds when we come there? Or am I just thinking in a weird way now?

Do note that I am assuming someone would actually know their loved one is in hell (how you could not know that when they are not in heaven is beyond me, though).

Take care,
Kerr

EDIT:

And if you wonder why I named the thread "another question about heaven and hell" its because I was reading the following thread when I came up with the question .
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/130175-will-you-happy-heaven-knowing-i.html

 

[CarlinKnew]

Hey man I've seen drug addicts who seem to think they're in heaven at least temporarily. Why couldn't God deal something with a better high and no comedown?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I have discussed this with my friends, including the inability to sin in Heaven in the New Jerusalem. It is removing a fundamental piece of who you are.

Then again, they may not know their family is in hell:

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." Revelation 21:4

Wipe away the tears could mean a metaphorical rendering of brainwashing...

 

[Kerr]

Hey man I've seen drug addicts who seem to think they're in heaven at least temporarily. Why couldn't God deal something with a better high and no comedown?

Drugs mess with peoples heads .

 

[Scott1]

GOOD question!

I like the comment in the thread about brainwashing ... Gotta be something like that. Person is so happy being in with God nothing else matters.

 

[Kerr]

I have discussed this with my friends, including the inability to sin in Heaven in the New Jerusalem. It is removing a fundamental piece of who you are.

Then again, they may not know their family is in hell:

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." Revelation 21:4

Wipe away the tears could mean a metaphorical rendering of brainwashing...

But to keep everyone who has a family in hell from knowing their family is in hell you have to mess with their minds in some way. Or am I missing something?

EDIT:

So tired I am not sure I understand what you mean . That tends to be a sign that I need to go to bed, so that is what I will do.

 

[punkdbass]

GOOD question!

I like the comment in the thread about brainwashing ... Gotta be something like that. Person is so happy being in with God nothing else matters.

Basically this ^

I would think heaven would be so much greater than anything we could comprehend, after-all, that's what would separate it from something like earth right?

So I agree that it would be sorrowful to know one of your loved ones was in hell, but that being said, I would assume heaven would be so much greater than anything we can comprehend - the absolute presence and knowledge of God.. that such an issue as the one you've posted wouldnt be part of that reality.

But if the idea still remains troublesome for you, there are definitely other "afterlife" concepts out there, some of which might be more appealing/satisfying to you. I hope that justice can be achieved beyond this life, as well as more room to grow and serve God and be in His presence.. but the concept of hell or eternal punishment doesnt really work for me personally, perhaps it doesnt work for you ether.

 

[Godobeyer]

Hi all.

I have a small question about heaven and hell. Will assume they exist and that God exists for this to make sense. Heaven is, from what I understand, supposed to be a place without sorrow or suffering. Hell is the opposite. Everyone cannot make it to heaven so they end up in hell. That means that some peoples loved ones will end up in hell. If someone know their loved one is in hell while they are in heaven, and if heaven is a place without sorrow, something must be keeping that someone from feeling, well, sad. If something is keeping us from feeling sad then that something is messing with our minds. If something is messing with our minds to remove sadness then its manipulating who we are. So what is the point of heaven as a reward and hell as a punishment if something is manipulating our minds when we come there? Or am I just thinking in a weird way now?

Do note that I am assuming someone would actually know their loved one is in hell (how you could not know that when they are not in heaven is beyond me, though).

Take care,
Kerr

EDIT:

And if you wonder why I named the thread "another question about heaven and hell" its because I was reading the following thread when I came up with the question .
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/130175-will-you-happy-heaven-knowing-i.html

Hi kerr , good point
edited :it's God matter , it's refer to Him to creat us , and it's refer to Him that He die us , and refer to him that He will resurrection us , and it's refer to Him to choice who will get heaven OR hell , and it's refer to Him that He will make the heaven the maximum happenes , and it's refer to Him that He will make the hell the maximum suffring .

 

[Godobeyer]

for my opinion if we are suffring in the heaven also , what is the different ?

 

[Scott1]

Thanks for the comments punk!

I don't believe in the eternal suffering (fire/torture) view of hell...

 

[Kerr]

GOOD question!

I like the comment in the thread about brainwashing ... Gotta be something like that. Person is so happy being in with God nothing else matters.

I guess I can see that. A form of euphoria which is a natural reaction to being close to God. But that seems to me, if I have understood your post correctly, to be more in line with heaven as being close to God and hell as separation from God rather then a matter of reward and punishment.

 

[Kerr]

for my opinion if we are suffring in the heaven also , what is the different ?

Degree I guess. You can be a little sad that someone you care about has gone to jail, but that doesnt mean that you cannot go to the pub and have fun with your friends.

 

[Godobeyer]

thanks Scott1 for this expression ,
edited : by the way, it's refer to Him to brainwashing us.

 

[Godobeyer]

Degree I guess. You can be a little sad that someone you care about has gone to jail, but that doesnt mean that you cannot go to the pub and have fun with your friends. The heaven I talk about in the OP would be more like taking a pill that makes you forget that the one you care about is in jail... that doesnt appeal to me.

ok , in the daylife , every one had problems which make him sometimes wish to die (or never existed ) right ?

if you don't accept these problems in this life , how you want them follow you in the hereafter ?

edited :accuatly i am enough problems in this life to wish to let it in my mind ....or to blame God that ecrase it from my mind in heaven

 

[Scott1]

I guess I can see that. A form of euphoria which is a natural reaction to being close to God. But that seems to me, if I have understood your post correctly, to be more in line with heaven as being close to God and hell as separation from God rather then a matter of reward and punishment.

Exactly, Kerr.

 

[Kerr]

Hi kerr , good point
edited :it's God matter , it's refer to Him to creat us , and it's refer to Him that He die us , and refer to him that He will resurrection us , and it's refer to Him to choice who will get heaven OR hell , and it's refer to Him that He will make the heaven the maximum happenes , and it's refer to Him that He will make the hell the maximum suffring .

I am not saying what God should or should not do. What I am trying to say is that... basically the concept of heaven and hell as punishment and reward seems, to me, to require some degree of manipulating peoples minds. So that the ones in heaven doesnt feel sadness and pain, and the ones in hell doesnt feel happiness and joy. But if you are manipulating people that way then you are effectively making their reward or punishment meaningless.

Its like lobotomy. If you do that on someone then it doesnt matter if they have been good or bad.

 

[Godobeyer]

I am not saying what God should or should not do. What I am trying to say is that... basically the concept of heaven and hell as punishment and reward seems, to me, to require some degree of manipulating peoples minds. So that the ones in heaven doesnt feel sadness and pain, and the ones in hell doesnt feel happiness and joy. But if you are manipulating people that way then you are effectively making their reward or punishment meaningless.

Its like lobotomy. If you do that on someone then it doesnt matter if they have been good or bad.

that you opinion , let's me give another exemple/question
in this life if you have a big problem , wish you forget it (delete it from your mind)? some people do it by the drugs and some others do it by the alchohol , and someothers did not resist , they decide to suicide ....etc

 

[Kerr]

that you opinion , let's me give another exemple/question
in this life if you have a big problem , wish you forget it (delete it from your mind)? some people do it by the drugs and some others do it by the alchohol , and someothers did not resist , they decide to suicide ....etc

No. I would not wish to forget it. I would wish to overcome it. And I know that because I have big problems and I do not wish to forget them but to overcome them .

 

[Godobeyer]

No. I would not wish to forget it. I would wish to overcome it. And I know that because I have big problems and I do not wish to forget them but to overcome them .

that's up to you what you wish
in hereafter you we will forget and overcome , but honesly sometimes the forget is mercy bounty from God , especialy when you overcome it but it's stuck in your head


for me , i need to forget what i overcomed
maybe some of us need this :

 

[Kerr]

that's up to you what you wish
in hereafter you we will forget and overcome , but honesly sometimes the forget is mercy bounty from God , especialy when you overcome it but it's stuck in your head


for me , i need to forget what i overcomed
maybe some of us need this :

That just seems like the easy way out. And its off topic anyway. The question is if a reward or punishment matters if you are manipulated, since that manipulation would make any choices you made in life rather meaningless.