Answered prayer or coincidence?

[Samantha Rinne]

How are we supposed to know if something happens because it is answered prayer or just coincidence? So confusing.

The same way scientists test things. Repeatibility. If something is a one-off with no long-term effects, it's a coincidence. If good fortune keeps happening, then it's an answer to a prayer.

 

[shunyadragon]

The same way scientists test things. Repeatibility. If something is a one-off with no long-term effects, it's a coincidence. If good fortune keeps happening, then it's an answer to a prayer.

Not necessarily. I personally believe that God could care less concerning good fortune. The logic can go both ways. What if bad things keep happening to good people.

 

[Nimos]

I believe that God wants what is in our best interest, so we have to assume (if we are a believer) that whatever happens is in our best interest in the long run; although it might not seem like that at the time, that is just our human ego that thinks it knows more than an All-Knowing God, which is logically impossible, if such a God exists.

You would give that as an explanation to a dying child and its parents? That they shouldn't worry to much, because God think it is in their best interest, so its actually very good what they are experiencing.

Im impressed, if that were what you would actually tell someone. If someone told me that, I would be quite angry and tell them I would become a Satanist instead

 

[HonestJoe]

I believe that God wants what is in our best interest, so we have to assume (if we are a believer) that whatever happens is in our best interest in the long run; although it might not seem like that at the time, that is just our human ego that thinks it knows more than an All-Knowing God, which is logically impossible, if such a God exists.

Doesn't that mean this kind of "prayer for effect" would be ineffective by definition? If God always acted in our best interests, it wouldn't make any difference whether someone prayed for us or not, God would do (or not do) exactly the same thing regardless. That contradicts all the religious people who promote prayer to God for any kind of intervention of course.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Which one(s) are living and which are imaginary? How can you tell?

**Bible (love/prophecy/accuracy)

Is there a specific method that ensures a god will answer? What is it, and how can you tell?

**The Holy Bible (love/prophecy/accuracy)

 

[BilliardsBall]

No god is more or false than any other. Whichever was listening I guess. My son got hit by a car and I told deity that I would believe in it if he was okay (well, at least not dead or gravely injured). He wasn't, so I feel obligated. Also, since leaving theism, things seem to have physically happened to me that didn't before. So confused...

God operates mostly on a love basis, not obligation. Consider...

 

[Left Coast]

**The Holy Bible (love/prophecy/accuracy)

The Bible is just a collection of (conflicting) claims. How can you tell if they're correct (and which ones)?

 

[Sand Dancer]

This would be more of a Deist belief not pantheism. In pantheism the physical existence itself is the Deity.

True, but I think Deists believe in a creator god and pantheists don't.

 

[shunyadragon]

True, but I think Deists believe in a creator god and pantheists don't.

Than somewhere in between, because fundamentally pantheists believe the universe is God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: I believe that God wants what is in our best interest, so we have to assume (if we are a believer) that whatever happens is in our best interest in the long run; although it might not seem like that at the time, that is just our human ego that thinks it knows more than an All-Knowing God, which is logically impossible, if such a God exists.

You would give that as an explanation to a dying child and its parents? That they shouldn't worry to much, because God think it is in their best interest, so its actually very good what they are experiencing.

Im impressed, if that were what you would actually tell someone. If someone told me that, I would be quite angry and tell them I would become a Satanist instead

No, of course I would not say that to a dying child or his parents. that would be inappropriate and insensitive. We are discussing this on a religious forum so it is appropriate.

Lookit, I am no happier with God's arrangement than you are; I just present what I believe but that does not mean I LIKE it. I think it stinks.

However, there is no way around pain and suffering as long as we have to live in the material world that God created, so I just try to be rational about it rather than emotional.

 

[Trailblazer]

Doesn't that mean this kind of "prayer for effect" would be ineffective by definition? If God always acted in our best interests, it wouldn't make any difference whether someone prayed for us or not, God would do (or not do) exactly the same thing regardless. That contradicts all the religious people who promote prayer to God for any kind of intervention of course.

It might be effective or not, depending upon whether God thinks it is in our best interest to intervene.

Religious people pray to God, hoping that God will answer their prayers in the affirmative, but if they do not get what they wanted, they should just accept that it was not God's Will, and not in their best interest. Of course, this is not always easy to do, especially if it is a serious health issue that is a matter of life and death. Otherwise though, there is nothing that people cannot deal with, even if they think they cannot deal with it.

I never pray to get anything in particular but sometimes I pray that God will help me with a particular problem I am having, hoping God will help me figure out what I need to do to solve it or give me the strength to face it and deal with it. However, it is not really necessary to say a verbal prayer in order for God to know about all of this because God is well aware of everything that is going on with everyone at all times; so God knows I have this problem.

I think it is possible that God is waiting for me to ask for help and then I will get the help, but I could never prove that. From my experience, God seems to wait in the wings and then when I get to the end of my rope I cry out for help, which is normally me just getting angry at God, then I get help the next day. This has happened on innumerable occasions so I do not think it is a coincidence. It could just be that God knows I have a problem but I am getting by okay until I lose my cool.

There are certain things I need help with right now but I have said no prayers. I am not happy with my situation but I am getting by. This is how I normally operate, I put things off and just deal, but it will get to a point where I have to do something, and then I hope I will get help from God.

I am very self-sufficient so I would have made a good atheist.

 

[HonestJoe]

I think it is possible that God is waiting for me to ask for help and then I will get the help, but I could never prove that. From my experience, God seems to wait in the wings and then when I get to the end of my rope I cry out for help, which is normally me just getting angry at God, then I get help the next day. This has happened on innumerable occasions so I do not think it is a coincidence. It could just be that God knows I have a problem but I am getting by okay until I lose my cool.

Sorry but that just makes no sense. You're saying God waits while people are suffering and struggling but will only do something (though you've no idea exactly what) to help when they pray? So someone who never prays (for whatever reason) never gets any help regardless of how much they might need it? And someone who isn't aware that they need help will never get it either?

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry but that just makes no sense. You're saying God waits while people are suffering and struggling but will only do something (though you've no idea exactly what) to help when they pray? So someone who never prays (for whatever reason) never gets any help regardless of how much they might need it? And someone who isn't aware that they need help will never get it either?

No, I do not think that at all... I was only talking about my own experience and what I believe might be going on... I sometimes think that God waits till I hit bottom to help me, but I believe that God is helping me all along, because otherwise I would be a mess, given everything I have to negotiate. But I have observed that when I do hit bottom I get extra help I can recognize as God's help because of the way it unfolds.

I believe that someone who never prays will always get help if he needs it and someone who isn't aware that they need help will get help, because God knows everything and God is always on duty. However, I believe it is also true that people who pray get extra help because God wants us to pray. That does not mean we always get an answer to our prayer, that is handled on a case-by-case basis, but I think there is a "better chance" that we will get help in whatever form it comes, if we pray.

 

[Milton Platt]

Yes. We usually say when the same incident happens once, it's a coincidence. Twice, de ja vu. The third time it depends on the person's belief. Some may attribute it to faith, god, or if they had say their parent passed, association that their family member is speaking to them.

Mysterious events or things humans can't explain are usually considered "A Higher Power" or "god knows" or give it to the universe.

I realize a lot of it has to do with trusting yourself. I know on RF many people call it being gullible but not all see it that way. Coincidences can be answer to prayers and you can attribute personal miraculous events to pretty much anything or anyone you feel comfortable. It's harder for skeptics to do this than indoctrinates but I think the idea is the same for both.

Coincidences are simply coincidences. My question to you would be at what exact level of "unusual" is something an answered prayer and not simply a chance occurrence? Without knowing that, we have no way to separate the two.

 

[Trailblazer]

Coincidences are simply coincidences. My question to you would be at what exact level of "unusual" is something an answered prayer and not simply a chance occurrence? Without knowing that, we have no way to separate the two.

Something unusual would not be getting the thing one prayed for. Something unusual would be something one was not expecting, something one would never have thought of themselves. Only the person who said the prayer can know if what happened after they prayed fits the bill because they are familiar with themselves and their usual experiences.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The Bible is just a collection of (conflicting) claims. How can you tell if they're correct (and which ones)?

You are making an unsubstantiated, general statement. I find the Bible's claims consistent and logical--one of many reasons it has billions of adherents, and for millennia. I was just in Israel, and am there again next month, visiting Bible archaeology sites, too.

 

[Left Coast]

You are making an unsubstantiated, general statement.

My only statement was that it is a collection of claims. How is that unsubstantiated? Your next sentence appears to agree with me.

I find the Bible's claims consistent and logical--one of many reasons it has billions of adherents, and for millennia.

You could say the same about Islam, Hinduism, or Buddhism. Does having lots of adherents and existing a long time make a belief system true?

I was just in Israel, and am there again next month, visiting Bible archaeology sites, too.

Cool. When any peer-reviewed archaeological evidence confirms any of the Bible's miracle claims, let me know.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Answered prayer is a meaningless notion. It requires explanations as to why MOST prayers are not answered. These explanations are usually forms of surrender to ignorance.

 

[Segev Moran]

How are we supposed to know if something happens because it is answered prayer or just coincidence? So confusing.

Its the same thing

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Even if you had faith, you still could not know, even if you believed you knew.

I beleive life can become prayer, such as Abdul'baha was.

Prayer is remembrance of God and in this age it is a life served in that remembrance.

So I see all prayer is answered by our own actions.

This is a good thing to consider, it is a Pilgrim Note, but because it was useful, it has been issued for use;

"While in Haifa, the beloved Guardian of the Cause gave to the writer (Mrs Ruth Moffet), the most concise, complete, and effective formula she has ever seen, for the Dynamics of Prayer. After saying to stress the need of more prayers and meditation among the friends, he said to use these five steps if we had a problem of any kind for which we desired a solution or wished help.

First Step – Pray and meditate about it. Use the prayers of the Manifestations as they have the greatest power. Then remain in the silence of contemplation for a few minutes.

Second Step – Arrive at a decision and hold this. This decision is usually born during the contemplation. It may seem almost impossible of accomplishment but if it seems to be as answer to a prayer or a way of solving the problem, then immediately take the next step.

Third Step – Have determination to carry the decision through. Many fail here. The decision, budding into determination, is blighted and instead becomes a wish or a vague longing. When determination is born, immediately take the next step.

Fourth Step – Have faith and confidence that the power will flow through you, the right way will appear, the door will open, the right thought, the right message, the right principle or the right book will be given you. Have confidence, and the right thing will come to your need. Then, as you rise from prayer, take at once the fifth step.

Fifth Step – Then, he said, lastly, ACT; Act as though it had all been answered. Then act with tireless, ceaseless energy. And as you act, you, yourself, will become a magnet, which will attract more power to your being, until you become an unobstructed channel for the Divine power to flow through you.

Many pray but do not remain for the last half of the first step. Some who meditate arrive at a decision, but fail to hold it. Few have the determination to carry the decision through, still fewer have the confidence that the right thing will come to their need. But how many remember to act as though it had all been answered? How true are those words-"Greater than the prayer is the spirit in which it is uttered" and greater than the way it is uttered is the spirit in which it is carried out.

The above statement belongs properly to the class of statement known as "pilgrim's notes" and as such has no authority but, since it seems to be particularly helpful and clear, it was felt that believers should not be deprived of it."

I see that also is an answer for the OP

Regards Tony