Anti-Christmas Thread

[Laika]

Not even a little. There is nothing "irrational" about spending time with family and engaging in family traditions on a particular day of the year. Gods forbid we value our families and behave as the social animals we are.

We are social animals and I appreciate the sentiment behind what your saying. Christmas has a "feel good" factor for it being prior established as a time for social gathering. But it as rational to agree to celebrate May 16th or September 9th with family members as to accept December 25th as a day to be around family is Christmas is totally empty of "religious" content to give that day specific meaning. If it's not about Christ (and there is no biblical reference to suggest it is) the choice of date is entirely arbitrary.

 

[Augustus]

I agree about liking good myths, the problem is the proliferation of extremely bad myths, trite cliched rubbish mostly.

The problem is 'Simply having a wonderful Christmas time' by Paul McCartney as it is inescapable.

I only focus on the good myths like 'it is absolutely essential to drink hot chocolate with rum and at 10am while eating brandy snaps filled with cream'.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

@Laika , you should be Huey again for the day, lol!
As for Christmas, I'm now as of today going into my Hulk-Scrooge mode until January. All the buying, all the commercialism, all the excessive displays, instead of a holiday about all the material junk in our life, stuffing our faces, and getting drunk I think it would be nice if we had a holiday dedicated to family, friends, and being grateful for the things we have. Christmas I really see as no different than Valentines day. I just don't need a special day to show my affection and celebrate and cherish those in my life. Even my dog I occasionally buy treats and gifts for, but just not on Christmas. Roses are wonderful, but the cost of them skyrockets during Valentine's Day making it a waist of money to buy then, especially if you buy them during other parts of the year.

 

[Quintessence]

We are social animals and I appreciate the sentiment behind what your saying. Christmas has a "feel good" factor for it being prior established as a time for social gathering. But it as rational to agree to celebrate May 16th or September 9th with family members as to accept December 25th as a day to be around family is Christmas is totally empty of "religious" content to give that day specific meaning. If it's not about Christ (and there is no biblical reference to suggest it is) the choice of date is entirely arbitrary.

Well yeah, the choice of date is "arbitrary" in that it's a human social construct. I don't see this as an issue, much less a demarkation of irrationality. Why not pick some particular day for celebration and have it be consistent? Consistency is nice - it means you can make plans and things are predictable. With respect to my family, we don't always have our celebrations on exactly that date, whether it's Christmas, Thanksgiving, or whatever. Growing up, we always had it on that exact day, but we also all lived under the same roof. Now there are other considerations, and things haven't been the same. That's mostly been fine, but some years, we miss something. Things feel off when that happens. That's the power and beauty of tradition - builds connections, builds meaningfulness. Even though it's not like it was growing up, I still look forward to it every year. This next year in particular, since I missed one of the big traditions because of bad driving weather. It will make this year all the more special.

 

[Quetzal]

Is it? Last time I checked, Christians did not regard their savior as a "zombie" and parents didn't teach their kids that Santa is a "professional burglar." But if we've got a proper peer-reviewed published study saying that "a large number" (not sure what that is, statistically) of folks have these perspectives, I'll freely stand corrected.

You are nit picking artistic liberties instead of addressing the main point of the OP.

 

[Laika]

@Laika , you should be Huey again for the day, lol!
As for Christmas, I'm now as of today going into my Hulk-Scrooge mode until January. All the buying, all the commercialism, all the excessive displays, instead of a holiday about all the material junk in our life, stuffing our faces, and getting drunk I think it would be nice if we had a holiday dedicated to family, friends, and being grateful for the things we have. Christmas I really see as no different than Valentines day. I just don't need a special day to show my affection and celebrate and cherish those in my life. Even my dog I occasionally buy treats and gifts for, but just not on Christmas. Roses are wonderful, but the cost of them skyrockets during Valentine's Day making it a waist of money to buy then, especially if you buy them during other parts of the year.

Dam. I really stirred some passions with this thread. If I'm going to huey, I'd have to be much more daring and consistently so. (there is a boondocks episode on Christmas in the first season if you want to watch it).

P.s. If you want to be militant "anti-Christmas", I'd suggest having the "Christmas spirit" of love to all mankind all year round not just December 25th. That will really screw with the system telling us when is the appropriate day for commercialised niceness to each other.

Well yeah, the choice of date is "arbitrary" in that it's a human social construct. I don't see this as an issue, much less a demarkation of irrationality. Why not pick some particular day for celebration and have it be consistent? Consistency is nice - it means you can make plans and things are predictable. With respect to my family, we don't always have our celebrations on exactly that date, whether it's Christmas, Thanksgiving, or whatever. Growing up, we always had it on that exact day, but we also all lived under the same roof. Now there are other considerations, and things haven't been the same. That's mostly been fine, but some years, we miss something. Things feel off when that happens. That's the power and beauty of tradition - builds connections, builds meaningfulness. Even though it's not like it was growing up, I still look forward to it every year. This next year in particular, since I missed one of the big traditions because of bad driving weather. It will make this year all the more special.

Well, that's good honestly.

The problem with Christmas is how it becomes so artificial. And as a non-Christian it bothers me as I actually don't want to celebrate Christmas for endorsing a "religious" holiday that I'm not even part of and isn't even really that religious. When you start to think about it and realise it has almost nothing to do with Christianity- then it starts to feel like something really is wrong. There's that part of me going "why am I doing this? What is this for?".

I'd say I don't have the sense of tradition or connection to Christmas that you have. Neither of my parents are Christian and nor are any family members or friends. Christmas "just happens" and I don't know what a devout Christian family would do for Christmas except maybe go to church. Beyond being nice to people and a few nice things to eat- I really don't know what it's for now I'm older (and the excitement over presents isn't quite such a big thing at least).

I think I mentioned it in the OP but I like the idea of celebrating New Years Day instead. I can really "relate" to that (even if it is just one orbit round the sun). It's a milestone you can measure and an opportunity to think about the year behind you and the one that lies ahead. As a secular alternative, that makes sense to me. But it's still pretty ballsy to say "I don't celebrate Christmas" given that it's become so all pervasive.

 

[Quetzal]

There's that part of me going "why am I doing this? What is this for?"

There it is. This is what is really boils down to for me. When you break it down, for many folks in the US it is an opportunity to show someone affection based on a price tag. The materialistic portion if this, along with the social pressure to participate, is my biggest gripe. I respect and support traditions the revolve around social gatherings, feasts, what have you. But many times I feel obligated to participate in an exchange and then feel bad should I receive something without having something to offer of equal monetary value. I despite this system and it all perpetuates an ever present need and want to horde more stuff... and for what?

 

[viole]

One of the few things I like about Christmas, is I get to wish people who serve me at a checkout a "merry Christmas". this is a small humanising gesture that is socially acceptable for me to make maybe once a year in December. The rest of the year- we are total strangers brought together by consumerism.

I also like it when my mum makes those rolls of sausages or stuffing wrapped up in a slice of bacon for Christmas Day. And Christmas Pudding. Hmmmmm...

But actually- there is not much else. Part of me has wanted to take the step of not celebrating Christmas.

As an "atheist" (or if you prefer "godless communist trying to destroy your way of life") there is a legitimate case for not indulging in a religious tradition that is weird when it's religious and even weirder now it has almost nothing to do with religion.

Take lying to Children about Santa. Is it really ok to tell your kids that on the night of December 24th a professional burglar is going to break into their house, probably using a chimney, and as an alcoholic gets so drunk from muld wine that you leave him on the mantle piece that he will leave you presents made by slave labourers in the Arctic and then continue his annual round the world crime spree on a sleigh pulled by a psychedelic reindeer with a glowing red nose to warn air traffic control they are approaching?

Then- after being forced to sing about psychedelic reindeer for their childhood at primary school- one day your kids realise Santas not real and get the first lesson in adulthood: your parents lie to you because they enjoy the power play of deciveing you so that when they put presents under the tree so you think it's extra special because it comes from a complete stranger rather than feel taken for granted for the other 364 days of the year.

Just Think about it for a second.

Then ask yourself Where does Christianity come into this weird LSD trip of a horror story to exploit and emotionally manipulate suggestable children?

ok. Let's take the Christian part of it seriously. According to the story Jesus was born from a virgin in a middle eastern country after being forced out of their home town because King Herod wanted to commit mass infanticide for fear of a messiah being born and so Mary and Joseph only found shelter in a stable as there was "no room in the inn". Meanwhile, three wise men got high and started seeing a bright star in the night sky and so went to Bethlehem to give this new born child gold, frankincense and myrrh. Keep in mind that this new born baby is prophesied to grow up to become a middle eastern extremist that tries to overthrow an evil empire only to die in a public execution and then be ressurected on Easter Sunday (when we celebrate a public execution and the worlds first zombie by eating chocolate bunnies and eggs. Which is. Just. ....Weird).

One thing to keep in mind is that the bible does not say when Jesus was born. Let alone anything as precise as December 25th- which may well have been an entirely political placement of the holiday to compete with a pre-existing pagan festival.

So to celebrate this "Christmas" we engage in a social ritual where, to be thankful for the birth of the saviour, we eat too much, sing songs that have very little to do with Christianity, get to know relatives we really don't like and most importantly for at least everyone under the age of 10- gather round a tree to get presents (should I mention that the trees origin in the Christmas celebrations comes from Germany courtesy of Prince Albert exporting it to England in the 19th century and so has nothing to do with the Middle East?)

Meanwhile, in America (and sadly more so in the UK) to celebrate what we are thankful for on the approach of Christmas, people do this.

Can we just take a moment to admit this is a load of ********? If Christians want to go the church and be devout on their special day that's ok but do we really have to turn this sort of mass hysteria into a national past time?

I have to admit Christopher Hitchens was right when he said celebrating Christmas is as close as the west comes to a one-party state with every radio and television station blaring out pro-Christmas propaganda/ music/ almost compulsively merry-ment. It's worth reading-whatever your beliefs- if you have a sense of humour.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...2008/12/tis_the_season_to_be_incredulous.html

Whilst I don't agree with the Soviets banning Christmas (I'm not quite that cruel) as a result of that weird experiment to reverse centuries of mass indoctrination with more indoctrination many people celebrated New Years Day instead. I kind of see the point as a secular holiday even if it is about the earth making one full journey round the sun...

Take a moment and just think. Is this "Christmas" how we really want to spend our December 25th? Seriously?

In my experience Christmas is despised by (some) atheists that live in a society that despises them. Which is perfectly understandable.

And that is why I do not generally agree with banning or despising Christmas, in general. For instance, in my country almost everybody celebrates Christmas without believing for a second on the underlying metaphysical claim. I would say we Swede still celebrate a lot of traditions that assume Odin and Thor in their premises, and it would be a tad silly to ban them because Odin and hammers carrying gods are obviously ridiculous. After all, kids have great fun and they do not care about metaphysics.

I am afraid, we as atheists will be emancipated in the world only when the idea of a war on Christmas starts looking ridicolous.

I know. Easier said than done.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Laika]

There it is. This is what is really boils down to for me. When you break it down, for many folks in the US it is an opportunity to show someone affection based on a price tag. The materialistic portion if this, along with the social pressure to participate, is my biggest gripe. I respect and support traditions the revolve around social gatherings, feasts, what have you. But many times I feel obligated to participate in an exchange and then feel bad should I receive something without having something to offer of equal monetary value. I despite this system and it all perpetuates an ever present need and want to horde more stuff... and for what?

You forget to say "Christmas is the opium of the people" Herr @Quetzal

 

[Laika]

In my experience Christmas is despised by (some) atheists that live in a society that despises them. Which is perfectly understandable.

And that is why I do not generally agree with banning or despising Christmas, in general. For instance, in my country almost everybody celebrates Christmas without believing for a second on the underlying metaphysical claim. I would say we Swede still celebrate a lot of traditions that assume Odin and Thor in their premises, and it would be a tad silly to ban them because Odin and hammers carrying gods are obviously ridiculous. After all, kids have great fun and they do not care about metaphysics.

I am afraid, we as atheists will be emancipated in the world only when the idea of a war on Christmas starts looking ridicolous.

I know. Easier said than done.

Ciao

- viole

I actually thought this thread would be Provocative but it instead it turns out a lot of people agreed with it. That's a bit unexpected and welcome.

In a way celebrating Christmas as a national holiday, even in its ridiculous commercialised form is an expression of Christian cultural dominance and privallage in western societies. Although, that is actually insulting to devout Christians whom the holiday largely doesn't represent. I doubt the resentment of being made to conform into accepting Christmas is confined to atheists. I'd guess most non-Christians would have a problem with it as well.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

christmass is non-religious party now. even some jews and hindus celebrates it.

 

[viole]

I actually thought this thread would be Provocative but it instead it turns out a lot of people agreed with it. That's a bit unexpected and welcome.

In a way celebrating Christmas as a national holiday, even in its ridiculous commercialised form is an expression of Christian cultural dominance and privallage in western societies. Although, that is actually insulting to devout Christians whom the holiday largely doesn't represent. I doubt the resentment of being made to conform into accepting Christmas is confined to atheists. I'd guess most non-Christians would have a problem with it as well.

Well, not necessarily.

As I said, we happily celebrate Christmas in Sweden, even thought we are an atheist nation, basically. Yet, it is part of our culture, like Thor. And, honestly, I do not care if believers in the modern alternative gods do not agree,

Ciao

- viole

 

[von bek]

Speaking as a Pagan, I happen to love Christmas. The best part of the year is Halloween to Christmas, in my opinion. I love the decorations, all the trees, wreaths, and ornaments. I love gathering with family and friends to drink, smoke, eat, and be merry. Good times.

 

[Skwim]

What I've always found odd is that among young people---those up to the age of 14 or so--- Santa gets more press than Jesus. Same goes for Easter where bunny rabbits get more attention, although I think the age limit is a mite lower, maybe up to 11 or 12. And just as curious is that Christian parents play into the Santa and Easter bunny myths. Considering how important the two stories are one would think such parents would try to keep them as pristine as possible. But go figure.


.

 

[Father Heathen]

For me Christmas is just about family and feasting.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

(there is a boondocks episode on Christmas in the first season if you want to watch it).

I love that episode. One of my favorite moments in the entire show is when Huey is explaining the history of Christmas to Grandad and Huey's voice turns into that muffled Charlie Brown "wah-wah-wah." It took in and paid homage to the dearly beloved Christmas show while taking some deep stabs at it lol. Too bad there was no one to argue with Huey that Jesus probably wasn't black either.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is not enough bah-humbuggery in this thread.

 

[Deeje]

Haven't celebrated Christmas since I was a teenager (over 40 years ago).....haven't missed the shopping ordeal, trying to decide what to buy verses what I could afford.....hating that I had to spend my hard earned money on people I didn't even like....didn't miss the maddening crowd fighting over bargains and taking their stress out on the poor check out people. Kids throwing tantrums and weary women trying to do all the work whilst the men sit around and drink!

Christmas was never Christian and its customs originally honored pagan gods. How does any of it honor Christ? It is an excuse to do all the things the Bible condemns.
I stand and look at the god of commerce being served with much more vigor than the God of the Bible, and when I tell people I don't celebrate Christmas, they now look at me with envy.
I ask them why they go through all that when they don't have to? They just can't seem to get off the treadmill.

Someone needs to pull the plug.

 

[Ingledsva]

Where did the notion ever arise that Xmas is a religious holiday?
It's about fearing & enduring unmet gift expectations & reciprocations.
And then, there are the obligatory & hated family gatherings.
But if we're lucky, there will be turkey.....& bacon.

 

[Rick O'Shez]