Anti-gay bigots are the ones with the problem

[Terry Sampson]

.........it was a joke........ (although not false, so straight I could be a lesbian, get it?)

Ahhh, ... got it. What a relief! I put a lot of thought into my stereotype.

 

[Stevicus]

Nothing factual. Your causal chain seems suspect, though. You're talking about homophobic bigotry in popular culture as though it exists in isolation. I would contend that the homophobic bigotry in popular culture is of religious origin, even when displayed by non-religious people within the culture with religious determined morals.

There was no causal chain that I put in there. All I was saying was that religion has no monopoly on homophobic behavior and attitudes. I was recounting the homophobic attitudes of when I was growing up, when such attitudes were common among youth, and echoed largely in the mainstream media. I didn't learn about it in church, and my parents were equally mute about the subject. But I picked it up in public schools, from other kids who were mostly non-religious - as well as from popular sitcoms and movies of the time (before political correctness really came on the scene).

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

There was no causal chain that I put in there. All I was saying was that religion has no monopoly on homophobic behavior and attitudes. I was recounting the homophobic attitudes of when I was growing up, when such attitudes were common among youth, and echoed largely in the mainstream media. I didn't learn about it in church, and my parents were equally mute about the subject. But I picked it up in public schools, from other kids who were mostly non-religious - as well as from popular sitcoms and movies of the time (before political correctness really came on the scene).

Yes, those kids may have been non religious, however the reason the secular culture was homophobic was because of it's religious roots. Fish have no word for water.

 

[Stevicus]

I saw such acts from non-religious students in HS and Jr not the Christians. I can not remember a girl doing anything negative just the boys. This is in Canada. The boys doing these acts tended to be the type that seemed to be covering for their own problems. Most were grossly obese bullies.

Yes, I think it's largely a cultural thing, of which religion is certainly a big part - but definitely not the only part.

 

[Shad]

Why are gay and bisexual men 44 times more likely to contract AIDS?

Your CDC source covers this question.

 

[Scott C.]

Those who think there is a problem with being gay are the ones who need to be cured of their bigotry. People should be happy with the skin they are in, no one chooses to be homosexual, anymore than a person chooses to be heterosexual.

If one of my children was gay I would definitely not have a problem with it, I would want them to be happy. My main concern would be that they would be on the receiving end of homophobic comments from sick bigots. Those who use the Bible justify their nastiness, bring their faith into disrepute, there are many gay Christians in this world.

As I have said on a number of occasions, Jesus had a specific disciple whom he loved, as one presumes the disciple was male, maybe he was in a gay relationship with him. If so I hope they were happy and had a great sex life. Jesus never condemned homosexuality.

The belief that it's a sin to choose to engage in any form of sex that is not between one man and one woman, legally married, and consensual (e.g, pre-marital heterosexual sex, homosexual sex, adultery, polygamy, prostituion, etc.) is not hatred, nor is it bigotry. Holding such a belief is not motivated by desire to harm another. It's simply a belief that one holds as being from God and therefore important. It's presumptuous to assume the amount of love or concern that a person with such religious beliefs has or does not have for others. Are there hateful people who use religious beliefs as an excuse to hate and to persecute? Sure. But certainly those who believe there is no God or who believe God does not care about acts of sexuality, have no superior claim on human kindness, empathy, compassion, or goodness. I love my son who is bisexual, provide him warmth, kindness, and friendship, and want him to be happy, while I continue to believe that the greatest peace and joy is found in keeping God's commandments.

 

[Shad]

Yes, I think it's largely a cultural thing, of which religion is certainly a big part - but definitely not the only part.

In the experience I brought up seemed like social circles combined with self-doubt during puberty. Perhaps the stigmas from the 80s thus media be it TV or music (Internet was not a common household commodity). Alternatively just outright bullying using social ideas as the weapon of choice.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

And if you notice, gay men have little to do with it. The overwhelming majority of HIV victims are heterosexual.
Tom

And let us not forget the HIV victims who are intravenous drug users.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Why are gay and bisexual men in the U.S. 44 times more likely to contract the HIV/AIDS virus than heterosexuals if it is just about unprotected sex and not sexual preference?

Probably because gay and bisexual men in the U.S. are 44 times more likely to engage in unprotected sex? It's not the sexual orientation that's the problem, it's irresponsible, unprotected sex, whether it's hetero or homosexual.

 

[oldbadger]

There is no worrying to it and the thread was about gays, I merely reported facts as stated by the CDC.
Facts are not bigoted

You merely ignored the many ways that sickness can be spread and went straight to the figures for males.

So I went straight for the gun death and injury figures for you, and you replied by saying 'I knew that would come up!.' Well many of us knew that anti-gays would go straight for the 'more than 60% of HIVs are males' stuff. You see?

I just get the feeling of certainty that when HIV is finally reduced and made 'treatable' through medical science (as it seems to be reducing here) that you won't be telling us how pleased you are for the gay community. True? Yes?

So all this stuff is just prejudiced hogwash? Yes? True?

 

[oldbadger]

Because pretty much everyone owns at least one or two cars and it is estimated that there are about 263 million cars in the U.S. with a population of about 328 million?

Let me say it again.
When medicine finally smashes the HIV virus down, (our medics in the UK are doing very well and making smashing progress) you won't be holding a street party to celebrate, imo, so please, just admit it, you're totally prejudiced and against sexual equality for all. True? Yes?

 

[oldbadger]

The belief that it's a sin to choose to engage in any form of sex that is not between one man and one woman, legally married, and consensual (e.g, pre-marital heterosexual sex, homosexual sex, adultery, polygamy, prostituion, etc.) is not hatred, nor is it bigotry. Holding such a belief is not motivated by desire to harm another. It's simply a belief that one holds as being from God and therefore important. .

So......... why would such religions ignore hundreds of God's other laws, all written down clearly in the same OT books. ????

So..... NO...... it's not belief but cherry picked bigotry.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Those who think there is a problem with being gay are the ones who need to be cured of their bigotry. People should be happy with the skin they are in, no one chooses to be homosexual, anymore than a person chooses to be heterosexual.

If one of my children was gay I would definitely not have a problem with it, I would want them to be happy. My main concern would be that they would be on the receiving end of homophobic comments from sick bigots. Those who use the Bible justify their nastiness, bring their faith into disrepute, there are many gay Christians in this world.

As I have said on a number of occasions, Jesus had a specific disciple whom he loved, as one presumes the disciple was male, maybe he was in a gay relationship with him. If so I hope they were happy and had a great sex life. Jesus never condemned homosexuality.

I don't think they'd last long if we treated them the way they treat us. Like whenever a Bible discussion comes up and we are asked our opinions, we say "We try to hate the sin but love the sinner."

 

[Stanyon]

You merely ignored the many ways that sickness can be spread and went straight to the figures for males.

Because this thread is about gays and gay and bisexual males were/are primarily responsible for the aids epidemic as we know/knew it, the other reasons are secondary. Everything I have claimed was straight from the CDC, they are facts and facts are not bigoted.

 

[Stanyon]

When medicine finally smashes the HIV virus down, (our medics in the UK are doing very well and making smashing progress) you won't be holding a street party to celebrate

No, I will probably say "good" and go about my business as usual just like if they came up with a cure for all forms of cancer.

 

[Scott C.]

So......... why would such religions ignore hundreds of God's other laws, all written down clearly in the same OT books. ????

So..... NO...... it's not belief but cherry picked bigotry.

Nope

 

[Left Coast]

Since we're all about facts here:

How well do condoms protect gay men from HIV? - San Francisco AIDS Foundation

PrEP | HIV Basics | HIV/AIDS | CDC

Dear Colleague: September 27, 2017 | What's New | About the Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention (DHAP) | HIV/AIDS | CDC

 

[Left Coast]

This whole thread has been derailed by an argument about whether it's a good idea for HIV-positive men to have unprotected anal sex.

I have yet to see an actual secular argument against homosexuality, which is what @Kangaroo Feathers wanted. Is one coming?

 

[JJ50]

This whole thread has been derailed by an argument about whether it's a good idea for HIV-positive men to have unprotected anal sex.

I have yet to see an actual secular argument against homosexuality, which is what @Kangaroo Feathers wanted. Is one coming?

I doubt it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

This is from 2010, you might want to contact the Centre for Disease Control and straighten them out so they aren't spreading false or misleading information.

"In 2010, an estimated 1.1 million people aged 13 years or older were living with HIV infection in the United States. Most (76%) of those living with HIV were male, and 69% of males were gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men"

Men | Gender | HIV by Group | HIV/AIDS | CDC

That's in the US. If you look at stats for the rest of the world, and more specifically for Africa, you'll find that Columbus is exactly right.