Antipsychotics: to Take or to Leave?

[RRex]

Slayer,

Long-term, treatment-resistant Bipolar I here, plus a couple other things I don't want to reveal.

1. You need a new psych. That woman isn't listening to you. Kick her to the curb. Therapists should not be dictating your med schedule. Only psychiatrists are qualified to do so.

2. I'm doing quite well on Seroquel combined with Lamictal and Prozac in the AM. Maybe ask your psychiatrist to try Seroquel alone.

3. DO NOT take St. John's Wort. There are drug interactions to consider. That is horrible advice.

I will re-read the thread and comment further if necessary.

You are not alone.

 

[savagewind]

I was oversleeping on most nights while taking the antipsychotics. I tend to sleep well most of the time.



As has been pointed out, bipolar disorder has nothing to do with being "weak."

Bipolar might be the way your body is RESPONDING to something wrong. It is sometimes about cause and effect.
Do you know what is causing it?

Also, sleep is not alway working just because we do not remember waking.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Bipolar might be the way your body is RESPONDING to something wrong. It is sometimes about cause and effect.
Do you know what is causing it?

I think what is causing it is most likely being in the society I'm in.

 

[savagewind]

I think what is causing it is most likely being in the society I'm in.

That is interesting. A person can do nothing about that.
Sometimes what happens to me makes me feel like I'd rather not keep going in it. But I am lucky that I am more happ[y than I am sad.
I look forward to happy. It can happen.

 

[YmirGF]

Slayer,

Long-term, treatment-resistant Bipolar I here, plus a couple other things I don't want to reveal.

1. You need a new psych. That woman isn't listening to you. Kick her to the curb. Therapists should not be dictating your med schedule. Only psychiatrists are qualified to do so.

2. I'm doing quite well on Seroquel combined with Lamictal and Prozac in the AM. Maybe ask your psychiatrist to try Seroquel alone.

3. DO NOT take St. John's Wort. There are drug interactions to consider. That is horrible advice.

I will re-read the thread and comment further if necessary.

You are not alone.

^^This^^

DS,


Though I do not suffer from any mental issues presently, I have been through depression so that is as exciting as things ever got for me, but DO stay away from people telling your to try stuff and LISTEN to your doctor(s). You might swing by your GP and see if they can talk to your Psyc and maybe try something a bit different. The Psyc might listen more attentively to a fellow doctor.

 

[savagewind]

Have you ever tried talk therapy with a real counselor? Do they have them in your country? Perhaps not.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Slayer,

Long-term, treatment-resistant Bipolar I here, plus a couple other things I don't want to reveal.

1. You need a new psych. That woman isn't listening to you. Kick her to the curb. Therapists should not be dictating your med schedule. Only psychiatrists are qualified to do so.

2. I'm doing quite well on Seroquel combined with Lamictal and Prozac in the AM. Maybe ask your psychiatrist to try Seroquel alone.

3. DO NOT take St. John's Wort. There are drug interactions to consider. That is horrible advice.

I will re-read the thread and comment further if necessary.

You are not alone.

Thanks for the kind words (regarding your last line)!

I misused the term "therapist," though; I apparently should have said "psychiatrist," because that's what she is: she prescribes meds to treat mental disorders. I thought the two terms were interchangeable. My bad.

 

[allfoak]

Antipsychotics: to Take or to Leave?

If you can, stop now before it is to late.
There are so many other ways to deal with the issues you have other than pharmaceuticals.
The drugs you are taking kill people.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have strong opinions on psychiatry....
- Do what works best for you.

There, that's it.
I've known people who benefited greatly from psychoactive drugs.
They're worth considering.
But beware....it's complex, & can be difficult to find what works.

 

[RRex]

Slayer,

I've been on pretty much every psych med known to man and few have worked, which is why I'm deemed treatment-resistant. My psychiatrist is a good man, but I had to wade through a bunch of hacks to find him.

A good psych will not put you on any more meds than you absolutely need, and he will not argue with you about what you think is best for your body. Your therapist saying that she knows what's best for you when you don't feel right about it is a big sign that you should leave her.

I, too, am at risk for diabetes, so my man put me on Metformin twice a day. I've been taking it for many years as a prophylactic against developing diabetes. So far, so good.

No sign of tardive, so I'm good to go there too.

Do what's right for you, but don't be afraid to take what you need for stability. I hated Risperdal because it made me fat, but it worked. Then my guy switched me to Seroquel so I could try to lose some weight.

It is a wonderful AP. I'm doing much better on it. I haven't dropped the weight, but my attitude about being fat has improved!

Don't know if this will help you, but I hope it eases your mind some.

PM me any time if you want to talk privately. We're all in this together.

RRex

 

[Deeje]

Bi-polar is a serious brain chemistry disorder. The person is not usually aware of their behavior or how it impacts on others. Meds can keep an "out of control" personality in check. I have two kids with bi-polar disorder and without meds, their lives and the lives of their families would be in continual chaos. Meds makes them behave in a socially acceptable way, bringing peace to the household, whereas no meds makes life a living nightmare of emotional turmoil. We needed to experiment with various drugs to find the one that suited them best.

It isn't just about those with the disorder and how "they" feel...its about living in the world without being an alien to others...without people having to tip-toe around you for fear of what might be unleashed if you even look at them the wrong way. Do what benefits others, not just yourself. Without meds, I shudder to think what state my family would be in.

 

[RRex]

You might swing by your GP and see if they can talk to your Psyc and maybe try something a bit different. The Psyc might listen more attentively to a fellow doctor.

Very good advice.

 

[Orbit]

First things first: I'm making this post primarily out of respect for a dear friend's opinion and concern. If it hadn't been for his/her input, I probably wouldn't have thought of making this thread.

Second, this is going to be a long post, so if you don't feel like reading all of it, I don't blame you. I would appreciate thoughts on this, however.

With that out of the way, let's get to the thread topic: for a few months, I have been taking a class of medications known as atypical antipsychotics to treat bipolar disorder. The first one I was on, Risperdal, made me unable to think clearly. I could handle some of the relatively minor but annoying side effects like frequent urination. I had to have my then-therapist change it, however, because of the inability to think clearly. Consequently, he changed my prescription to Zyprexa, which I'm in the process of withdrawing from due to concerns about some of the more serious side effects.

Today I saw a new therapist for the fourth time in less than two years. She refused to give me directions to taper off Zyprexa, saying that she couldn't "take part in a wrong thing." She insisted that I needed to be on antipsychotic medications, the class that has serious potential side effects, for treatment of my bipolar disorder. I told her that I was extremely worried about the more serious potential side effects of Zyprexa, such as tardive dyskinesia and diabetes. Her response was to remove Zyprexa from my prescription and add not one but three other antipsychotic medications. They are known in most countries as Clozapine, Abilify, and Seroquel, if I'm not mistaken. (I looked up the main ingredients to make sure I got the names right.)

Now, the main problem I see with this prescription is that all three medications still carry the risk of causing tardive dyskinesia and/or diabetes. Diabetes runs in my family on both the maternal and paternal sides, so that is not a risk to underestimate at all. Furthermore, I don't think the risk of developing tardive dyskinesia or any other movement disorder should be treated as small either (all highlighting mine):

Abilify:



Clozapine:



I couldn't find an exact figure for Seroquel on the same website, but the same problem is listed as a potential side effect:



Additionally for Seroquel (from the same link):



If the above statistics and other resources available online are to be believed, just one med of these carries a serious risk of developing a movement disorder that can be life-changing in many cases, not to mention diabetes. But the therapist didn't prescribe just one of these meds; she prescribed three, and if I follow her prescription, I'm supposed to take all three of them together.

This is where the problem comes in: I don't want to follow her prescription. I just don't want to put myself at risk of developing a serious movement disorder or diabetes, especially not this early in my life. The therapist told me that I would only have to be on these meds for 4-6 months, but when I asked her what would happen after I stopped taking them, she said, "You will be given an injection every two weeks to ensure that your condition remains stable." So she basically told me that I would indefinitely have this stuff in my body, thereby putting me at an increasing risk of the more serious side effects.

I'm not sure what to do from here. It's not like I enjoy living with frequent suicidal thoughts, but I'm worried so much about the possible side effects of these meds that I'm refusing to follow the prescription. The worry has literally kept me up at night on some days, and that is just from being on a low dose of one med of this class. The thought of being on three at the same time is just unbearable to me.

Please note that I'm not looking for medical advice, since I know that can't be reliably provided on an Internet forum. Instead, I'm just looking for general thoughts on the situation.

Thank you.

IMO, and I'm not an M.D. but you only need to be on anti-psychotics if you are having psychotic symptoms like hearing voices or hallucinations/paranoia. If you are having those symptoms you might want to try Latuda (Lurasidone) which doesn't have serious side effects compared to the stuff you've been talking about. Other than that, I wish you luck, and *hugs*

 

[allfoak]

Newer Antipsychotics Risky for Heart
Second-Generation Antipsychotic Drugs Increase the Risk of Sudden Cardiac Death, Study Shows
By Robynne Boyd
WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Elizabeth Klodas, MD, FACC

Jan. 14, 2009 -- People who use newer antipsychotic drugs are twice as likely as those who don't use any antipsychotics to have sudden cardiac death.

That's according to a study published in the Jan. 15 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

From 1990 to 2005, researchers at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine and Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinic Center in Nashville examined medical data from 93,300 people who used older or newer antipsychotic drugs and 186,600 nonusers.

For each person who used antipsychotic drugs, the researchers matched the data of two people who didn't use antipsychotics but who were the same age and sex and entered the study on the same day. The participants ranged from 30 to 70 years old......

Newer Antipsychotic Drugs Risky for Heart

 

[RRex]

you only need to be on anti-psychotics if you are having psychotic symptoms

This is not true. A level of APs needs to be maintained in the bloodstream to keep the patient from reentering the psychotic state.

 

[Orbit]

This is not true. A level of AP's needs to be maintained in the bloodstream to keep the patient from reentering the psychotic state.

Why would you give an anti-psychotic to someone with no history of psychosis? That's malpractice.

 

[allfoak]

Why would you give an anti-psychotic to someone with no history of psychosis? That's malpractice.

I am afraid it is common practice.

 

[RRex]

Why would you give an anti-psychotic to someone with no history of psychosis? That's malpractice.

Many drugs are prescribed for uses other than for what they were originally intended. Physicians report unexpected positive side effects in their patients all the time.

I've been prescribed a couple of epilepsy meds in the past even though I don't have epilepsy. They were found to have beneficial side effects in people with depression.

 

[Scott C.]

Please note that I'm not looking for medical advice, since I know that can't be reliably provided on an Internet forum. Instead, I'm just looking for general thoughts on the situation.

I suggest you see a psychiatrist, rather than a therapist (which I assume is not a psychiatrist). Make sure you have the most qualified person to prescribe these medications. Listen to the medical professionals. I have nothing against therapists. In fact, they can play a vital role. But medications are best handled by MD's, in my opinion, especially when you're dealing with psychotic illnesses and multiple medications. I suggest that you do not stop taking any prescribed medications without a doctor's agreement. Yes, there are side effects, but these need to be weighed against what happens if you go off of the meds. Trust a doctor's judgement in that regard. Do not self diagnose or come to conclusions on your own, from the internet. And I feel for you. Hang in there.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My first bit is any clinician who ignores their patient's concerns is not one you should see. If you are concerned about a certain side-effect, and she gives you something else that comes with the same side-effects....I'd say see someone else but it sounds like you've been around the block with therapists. Really you just have to look at risk vs. reward. Personally, I can't say if anti-psychotics are appropriate, but I would at least discuss the possibility of non-anti-psychotics. It's really nothing more than a guessing game anyways, trying what most commonly works and then tweaking things around from there.
I wish I could say more, but knowing your situation, especially in regards having went to this therapist and that one already, makes things complicated. It's all about risk vs reward, and if you are being helped or not.