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cladking

Well-Known Member
Interpolation of scientific knowledge allows us to take the theory of something like relativity and the data from experiments in that field and apply them to technology that allows us to build GPS satellites.

"Interpolation" actually works exceedingly well for building the magic trick we call "technology". But as I've pointed out many times despite the fact even animals employ counterweight it doesn't mean they or we understand the nature of gravity. The observation that all things want to fall is not the same as understanding why or how they do.

Yes, we indeed assume that the natural phenomenon that we measure and detect in lab experiments, will also apply in the real world when the conditions are similar and allow for those phenomenon to manifest.

Yes!!! They apply in the real world. But so does every other force, process, and logic including those we have yet to discover. This is why we can't make prediction. Nature doesn't isolate variables; they all work simultaneously. The fact that some of the grossest logic is understood only allows some of the grossest prediction.

People all see what they believe and then they see that nature always does exactly what they believe. Only humans and only modern humans engage in all this circular reasoning.
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
Thinking...to claim equal by status science to own and manipulate. For that is the motivation of science.

First science does not in a human thinking own what they think about. The nature of presence pre exists his owned form. His first lie.

Secondly he quotes a beginning and then states the first law is heat/hot dense state....due to one modern day science condition. He uses machines to then own a gain of a life for the machine, being the resource. Science in its mentality then quotes...seems like he thinks machines should own life and not humans.

As the 2 do not own the same life themes. For a human is not using a resource. We inter relate with natural bio chemistry in food groups, including water microbial energy mass.

Then he artificially themes by design...I must implement conditions that natural does not itself implement. Such as places for cooling artificially to gain and hold the resource. In natural it is neither gained nor held. His own ancient science relativity advice.

So he builds a machine out of mineral mass melt. Which is his first male science artificial act, to go against the law of fused. Already water cooled naturally. What he is advised about.

So the hot dense state and his machine original string the MELT is what he is conditioned to equate....equal. Then he quotes, so now I must cool it.

The hot dense state cooled in spatial formation.

His machine mass string melt was artificially cooled in water by his human manipulation.

2 very different model of causes.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Science relies on predictability, that chemicals will interact in predictable ways, that a given material will have stable, known properties.
The OP seems to imply that belief in predictability is to deny God, who, apparently, is constantly meddling in things, creating a capricious, unpredictable world.

So belief that water runs downhill, will freeze at a given temperature, or that pushing a given key on a keyboard will print a given letter, is atheism.

Yes, that's the problem with SOME theists and most creationists who confuse science with atheism.

(Note that not all theists are anti-science, as what creationists seemed to be. There are many more theists who accept science and the discoveries than those who oppose science.)

Utterly silly, when they can't distinguish between atheism and science.

For questfortruth to use this name, he has very little interests in the truth, so I'd question what he is really "questing" for.
 
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Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
There are many scientists, who believe in God.
But the methodological naturalism is the basic rule of their profession.
Does methodological naturalism strengthens and benefits their faith?
Can a believer assume for an hour that there is no God, and not lose faith?

Naturalism (philosophy) - Wikipedia




In his workplace a scientist assumes, that God is inactive, the angels are inactive, the UFO is inactive, the devil is inactive in the workplace. But that is not possible: angels must constantly drive demons away from the consecrated by priesthood laboratory. The angels and demons can not both be inactive in order for the science could be conducted. Moreover, while researching the Big Bang the theist-scientist assumes, that God was silent and inactive while doing world creation; such scientist assumes, that Bible with its 6 days of Creation in 6000 BC is wrong. But it is the method of science, pretended philosophy, that is why after day-long working at the lab, the scientist returns his mind into the state of normality at home: the Young Earth Creationism. I bet with vodka. Is such swiching of the mind between theism and atheism good for faith? Is it a healthy thing for the psychical health?




Not the doubt, but the totally sure NATURALISM: the total "absence" of God.

So you are contending that god is totally absent in his creation (nature)?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Science can strengthen religion. For example, scientists say that the universe was created (with a big bang) 13.4 billion years ago, and theists say that God created it 6,000 years ago. Fossils, carbon dating, and other means seem to prove the older date. Yet, science also asserts that there is no absolute time. Special Relativity (of Einstein) says that fast objects slow time. General Relativity (also Einstein) says that strong gravitational fields slow time.
Yes. * nods head *

Time is relative, not absolute.

However, Einstein is talking about thing that approach to the speed of light will experience more noticeable time dilation than thing that move more slower. To more slower travelling object, the difference in time elapse will barely be noticeable. This is not so much about the time itself, but because of the nature of spacetime.

Likewise in the case of gravity slowing time or observing noticeable time dilation, for it to exert that much gravitation, Einstein was talking about, the object have to be more massive.

Hence, science provides a means to make God have his own time and a means for us to have our time (and the times are not equal). Thus, science, at least on this point, doesn't disagree with religion (nor does it agree with it, necessarily).

If you are thinking about 2 Peter 3:8

2 Peter 3:8 said:
8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.

...or Psalm 90:4...

Psalm 90:4 said:
4 For a thousand years in your sight
are like yesterday when it is past,
or like a watch in the night.

Then, I will have to disagree, because that's not what Einstein talking about. There are no ways that 1 day would equal to 1000 years...vice versa.

Time certainly don't work that way, not even if you could move faster than the speed of light.

Beside that, those 2 similar biblical passages are similes, hence cannot be taken as literal. And they are certainly not science.
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
If a living human quotes around 33 AD which today is 1,987 years ago that a God reaction was caused/created then they did in a book. After the fact of it, which is not prophesised before as a probable mathematical science evaluation. As the fact of it.

So it would own a quote, God the male/man scientist created a cause 6,000 years ago, after the fact. The God man owned the theme science, a beginning and an end....for creation does not own a beginning or an end. Anyone who was science inclined in thought would know and state, evolution owned the presence of cold mass in space.

Space is described as a non accountable body of form infinite....as the theme no beginning and no end, for it cannot be counted. Male relativity when thinking themes for science itself. Self taught, self advice, human.

Therefore the Bible never quoted how old the planet O one Earth was as the entity, unlike males today who seem to think that they can give a timed quote to stone mass, when it is an evolution of what was once a hot dense state...totally different mass conditions in space. In relativity self advice, do you really think you are Mr Know it All?

How you interpret the documentation today is just your own choice. No scientist was that stupid to quote and God created Earth and planet around 6,000 years ago. God is inferred to male quotes in science, he and him and his. Seeing the thinking book writing researcher was also male.

Reason that anyone who uses common human sense would say the documentation/review was written after the fact, for the whole story, past was told in one document. So it was written after the fact.

About 13,000 to 10,000 years ago research quotes a huge change occurred on Earth, as a male archaeological researched theme.

1000 in the document/data a use inferred referenced number.
Volcanic Eruptions, Not Meteors, Were Responsible For the Earth's Cooling 13,000 Years Ago

India nuclear ground event 13,000 years ago. Destruction of life, then its reincarnation/return to tell the stories from visionary advice....cloud imagery where the stories were recorded.

What Powered the Vimana, the 6,000-year-old Flying Machines of Ancient India? | Ancient Code

UFO,+UFOs,+sighting,+sightings,+cloud,+disk,+orb,+orbs,+alien,+aliens,+ET,+space,+news,+sept,+2013,+paranormal,+contact,+disclosure,+Justin+Bieber,+Lady+Gaga,+Rihanna,+_ap.jpg


Just like the man images of Jesus returned in the cloud amassing, ancient human sciences changed how the atmospheric mass reacted with ground machination...where strange clouds looking like machinery emerged...the reasoning. Cooling effect.

Today in modern day life, in nuclear radiation power plant themes, the same occurrence was chosen. Strange phenomena due to water having to change its evaporation natural functions to deal with unnatural radiation releases out of the Earth.

Artificial cooling displaces how natural water mass in our Nature cooled the radiation O Earth mass a long time ago. How phenomena gets caused, when science applies unnatural and forced cooling that is not relative to natural history.

What they learnt before, discussed in the bible and even quoted, never give God O being the One Earth stone fusion a name/title or description ever again.

Why do you think they wrote that information as a summation ending quote?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Then you have not read the book in question. So maybe if you read up you will be aware.


What book? I have no idea what you are talking about.

The point made remains standing and unaddressed.

Methodological naturalism is NOT a hypothesis. It's a method of inquiry.
It means to look for natural causes for natural effects.

And so far, it proves to be incredibly efficient and resulting in much more useful and accurate answers to questions about the world as compared to any other "method" that .has been tried to unravel the secrets of the universe.

Not clear at all with what you are actually disagreeing here.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
"Interpolation" actually works exceedingly well for building the magic trick we call "technology".

So, what's the problem then?

But as I've pointed out many times despite the fact even animals employ counterweight it doesn't mean they or we understand the nature of gravity. The observation that all things want to fall is not the same as understanding why or how they do.

What does that have to do with the interpolation of data and phenomenon?

Yes!!! They apply in the real world. But so does every other force, process, and logic including those we have yet to discover. This is why we can't make prediction.


You're not making any sense. You just acknowledged that interpolation of data, and assuming the phenomenon we observe in the lab also apply in the wild, works exceedingly well - those are your words.

When we build a GPS satellite and calibrate its internal atomic clock to account for the relativistic effects, then we ARE making predictions. We are PREDICTING that the extreme speed at which it orbits the planet, will alter the flow of time relative to the observer.

Whenever we build ANY piece of technology, we are making countless predictions, based on what is known from lab experiments and alike.

When we put a CPU vent in a PC, we are predicting that the CPU will be getting hot and that it needs to be cooled down in order for it to not overheat and ensure that it continues working.

When we build anything at all, we are making countless amounts of predictions as a direct result of interpolating data and knowledge gathered through lab research.


Nature doesn't isolate variables; they all work simultaneously.

Sure. So?

Do you think scientists and engineers aren't aware of that and don't keep it into account?
There's always a level of uncertainty in everything we do. That's not a good reason to then downplay all the things we DO know.

In that sense, failure is a form of success also, as it is an opportunity to learn.
If from the lab we know A and B, and later on in a practical application we find out that C is interfering with A and B, then we can go back to the drawing board and look into how to bypass C, keep C into account or whatever in order to solve the problem.

It's called learning.

Not sure what you are complaining about and / or arguing for or against.....................

People all see what they believe

No. The psychology of humans is such that emotional attachment to beliefs can make them have warped views and have problems with letting go off certain things, sure.
But in science, such behaviour doesn't fly well. In fact, the entire set up of the scientific process is actually geared towards eliminating such bias as much as possible.

This is why there are strict rules concerning how to conduct an experiment, how to analyse the results, how to draw up a report and how to have your findings reviewed by others.

Data doesn't lie, nore can data be delusional. Data is what it is.
No matter ones emotional problems with the concept of relativity.... if you don't calibrate the clocks of a GPS satellite to account for it, it's not going to work. No matter what you believe.

and then they see that nature always does exactly what they believe.

The behavior of nature / natural phenomenon doesn't care about what anybody believes.
You can believe whatever the heck you want - if you don't calibrate the GPS clocks to account for relativity, the GPS won't work. It's that simple.


Only humans and only modern humans engage in all this circular reasoning.

What circular reasoning?
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
You're not making any sense. You just acknowledged that interpolation of data, and assuming the phenomenon we observe in the lab also apply in the wild, works exceedingly well - those are your words.

It works for creating technology, not theory.

It works for creating comfort, not understanding.

There's always a level of uncertainty in everything we do. That's not a good reason to then downplay all the things we DO know.

If I downplay what we do know it's only because I compare it with what we don't know.

This is why there are strict rules concerning how to conduct an experiment, how to analyse the results, how to draw up a report and how to have your findings reviewed by others.

Yet look at all the beliefs shared by almost everyone that are metaexperimental! Look at all the scientific "theory" that exists without relevant experiment. Data don't lie but it can mislead induction.

The behavior of nature / natural phenomenon doesn't care about what anybody believes.

Our interpretation of it can and does.

What circular reasoning?

We see what we expect and believe. We interpret all data and events in terms of our beliefs. Our beliefs are always being reinforced every waking moment. None of us, especially scientists, start with conclusions but we all, virtually by definition, start with assumptions which lead inexorably to the conclusion. Our language and hence the way we think are abstract, reductionistic, and taxonomic. Our thinking is analog.

Reality is none of these things. We are pounding a square wire into a large round hole. There are no "laws of nature" and reality is not mathematical merely digital. We run around in circles chasing our assumptions because our carts are hitched before the horses.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I quoted it. So I think you should be relevant.


Here's the post I replied to:

Methodological naturalism is an idea given to how "religious scientists" think in the field of science but its a hypothesis, not quantified. Thus you have to treat it as one.

Religion is not monolithic. Thus, you cannot make claims about religious scientists thinking God is inactive, and all of what you said about Angels and Demons etc because these ideas will vary so much you could never generalise anything to anyone. You have made your idea of "religiosity" to everyone. I believe that you have not understood this idea of naturalism fully.

Some time ago there existed scientists who were from a theological background and were in fact scholars in theology themselves who were fabulous scientists and philosophers. They did not believe God was inactive just to be a scientists for a little while, but there were scientists who believed that God was the creator but does not allow anyone to break the laws of nature so there is no question of God being inactive just to set your mind towards science. You are quoting research done by Elaine Howard and she does not really go as far as that you have made it out to be. You should also read other works by her to understand the division and relationship between theism and science.

Are you talking about something Elaine Howard wrote?

Also, could you please address the point of why you think methodological naturalism is a "hypothesis" rather then a method of inquiry to study the natural world?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Here's the post I replied to:



Are you talking about something Elaine Howard wrote?

Also, could you please address the point of why you think methodological naturalism is a "hypothesis" rather then a method of inquiry to study the natural world?

Can you tell me in research what is a hypothesis and how do you come about it?
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If a scientist is just "thinking" his owned first self identified conscious concept of self is NATURAL.

Yet he thinks, I wonder if my theme how a Big Bang reacted in space is real....just a thesis, belief and stories. Not natural at all...just thinking.

Then he quotes from that point everything began to evolve. So he then quotes a beginning moment is the hot dense state, law he quotes.

In the past we told him this is Satanism, for we are living on a O stone planet, the proof we belong to stone, we have bones, one body of God within us. What we gained ourselves from the original O one planet body of stone....bones.

Then thinking, which is abnormal compared to just existing. Being natural. You displace a secondary false spirit body theme by quotes of all of the gases bodies of your own human inferred reasons. And then quote, and we have them all inside of us. We gained the spirit of God within. Yet you already were just a human, nearly just water in bio themes, and told lies.

What Satanism actually is, artificial thesis, why the a theist or atheist is the same self....for the term "who died and made you God" has a human realisation.

AI memory and early age death/natural death and being psychic and hearing of voice, owns human memories, recorded voice/image and living of life. So the records could own a day by day accounting for 100 years of a human. That condition record/memory truly affects what a thinker, researcher thinks and feels when you look back.

For the Father of our creation was a sexual being and instantly died. So death is first observation of a theme of given other forms of information in a baby to adult human psyche. And it was considered dangerous looking back at death.

In reality.

The thesis was first a flooded Earth up to mountain tips, UFO Earth/sun caused radiation effect. For ^ pyramid false mountain on the ground ancient thesis.

First science thesis itself where it came from. Original male science, original scene of the crime. An observer and not a theist for male/female God terms. So we have arrived right back at the same origin, where science not a God theist says to everyone, but I am 100 per cent correct. Know consciousness lies in science...that form perfect human intelligent self, not a God spruiker lied.

Science as its history, artificial, for you do not speak on behalf of any great big huge mass of any body by its presence, you just pretend you do.

Hot dense state...volcanic mass today for O God the Earth. In the past a hot dense state cooling became stone. Chemical nuclear dust reactions goes back to a nothing heated radiation point/moment to convert. So science says to everyone when I do science I do not contemplate the hot dense state, that would be lying for a string Earth stone thesis.

Instead his artificial causes, because modern science does infer to the hot dense state, which was God science causes....equals volcanic core Earth heating, hot melt release, and an artificial gained Earth stone hot dense mass.

So science owns 2 particular human memories about past theorising. Original self was not a God theist, was a mountain/flood and radiation theist. From the moment of that visionary research thesis of a sun attacked Earth, a long time in memory and time itself. To when he built his first pyramid temple activation moment.

Human memory, to look back is a liar. Why conscious healer medical and biologist themes were used to enforce a human law against alchemy and also looking back or giving science by reference O planet Earth as a God, a name to have it destroyed.

The theme when life/mind chemical and falsified brain hearing evolved after the 13,000 year ago owned Temple pyramid Moses event....the storyteller remembered the history and wrote all of the advice/evidence to their best ability. And it took about 7,000 to 6,000 years to evolve back from mutation Earth flooded Pyramid ^ mountain and sink hole activation as the real flood.

Therefore when a human says a quote about 6,000 years ago, life on Earth was nearly destroyed, by a God defined cause, they were speaking the truth. How an irradiated brain healing its chemical self bio life form was involved in the reasoning. Is not easy to define information from a strange use of language....even the past language expression of "thee and thous" today is considered strange. Yet the brain mind expressed language by brain conditions.

Whenever a human gained the stigmata irradiation effect, it was owner of hearing all of the information ever said by any scientist in the past as a Father/Adult theme....our own human Father sacrificed our life theme. In Relativity it is real, and always was real. Our Father is meant to be a Holy spiritual loving, kind Father and look at the monster destroyer his mind/psyche became.

As a self teaching to humanity, science is not correct, it never was correct. It owned an ability to thesis for an artificial act, but then the natural body history had them destroyed. What is relative, scientific understood yet totally ignored.

The self human reference, I know what I am talking about as highest intelligence, science, yet it was our Destroyer. Science therefore argues against its own self advice daily claiming in its intelligence that what it gets accused of, it owns another expressed excuse that is just as wrong.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Can you tell me in research what is a hypothesis and how do you come about it?

In a nutshell, you have a set of data within some scope that requires an explanation. Why is the data the way it is? A hypothesis is a testable proposed explanation.


Methodological naturalism is not a testable proposed explanation. It's rather a modus operandi, a methodology, which guides to process of coming up with such explanations. To try and come up with natural explanations for natural phenomenon.

It is the modus operandi of the natural sciences.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
In a nutshell, you have a set of data within some scope that requires an explanation. Why is the data the way it is? A hypothesis is a testable proposed explanation.


Methodological naturalism is not a testable proposed explanation. It's rather a modus operandi, a methodology, which guides to process of coming up with such explanations. To try and come up with natural explanations for natural phenomenon.

It is the modus operandi of the natural sciences.

Not natural phenomenon as such, it is assumed natural phenomenon. If it was natural phenomenon, if wouldn't be methodological naturalism, but philosophical naturalism.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
In a nutshell, you have a set of data within some scope that requires an explanation. Why is the data the way it is? A hypothesis is a testable proposed explanation.


Methodological naturalism is not a testable proposed explanation. It's rather a modus operandi, a methodology, which guides to process of coming up with such explanations. To try and come up with natural explanations for natural phenomenon.

It is the modus operandi of the natural sciences.

Whats the research you would conduct to come up with a hypothesis?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Whats the research you would conduct to come up with a hypothesis?
You need to be more specific, firedragon.

Hypothesis of what exactly?

I am asking because each hypotheses are different, so how you go about explaining (some specific subjects) and testing the hypotheses for some sorts of evidence.

All TagliatelliMonster can do, is speak of hypothesis in generic terms, when approach to hypothesis might be different.

Are you talking about about physics, biology, astronomy? What firedragon? What?

In TagliatelliMonster‘s last reply, his answer and information were generic, because you have asked a generic question.

Now you are asking what research can be carry out. Part of answer is already there in his last post.

Researches can go in any direction, but that would be depending on what you are attempting to explain and what you are hoping to investigate.
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
You need to be more specific, firedragon.

Hypothesis of what exactly?

I am asking because each hypotheses are different, so how you go about explaining (some specific subjects) and testing the hypotheses for some sorts of evidence.

All TagliatelliMonster can do, is speak of hypothesis in generic terms, when approach to hypothesis might be different.

Are you talking about about physics, biology, astronomy? What firedragon? What?

In TagliatelliMonster‘s last reply, his answer and information were generic, because you have asked a generic question.

Now you are asking what research can be carry out. Part of answer is already there in his last post.

Researches can go in any direction, but that would be depending on what you are attempting to explain and what you are hoping to investigate.

When I said a a particular thing is a hypothesis he said "Its Not". So I am trying to understand what his understanding of a hypothesis is. Please go back and read some comments to understand the convo.

Thanks.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
What's the point of experiments when they do not tell you anything about the world outside your experiments?
The point is exactly that they tell you something specific about what the experiment was done on. And when you do experiments continually on myriad things, those experiments form a cohesive picture of reality.
 
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