Ants and leaves - the Gift

[nnmartin]

Ants are remarkable creatures that can do many things.

They are a good example of the intelligence given to the insect world.

Some basic instincts are passed down through the genetic code with the time-honoured saviour, a.k.a evolution.

But ants are a good example of what can't be genetically coded for.

Take army ants for instance - what do they do when they reach a small unpassable channel of water? - they have been known to cut down leaves and use them as rafts!

Impossible for this to have been passed down through the genetic code - how could you give a chemical signal that tells an ant that if sometime in its life it were to encounter an unpassable channel of water it is to make a raft!

This cannot be passed over as natural selection, adaptation - this is a good example of the Life Force in action.

It could even be possible for the ants to combine their mental abilities in this type of scenario to work out the best possible course of action to take.

Nature has many mysterious powers.

 

[Android]

How did you learn to type that on your computer? Was that knowledge passed down through your dna?

Oh yeah, it was your life force in action! lol say hi to master yoda for me

 

[Viker]

"Some basic instincts are passed down through the genetic code - "
"Impossible for this to have been passed down through the genetic code -"



How is it impossible and not obvious?

 

[McBell]

Ants are remarkable creatures that can do many things.

They are a good example of the intelligence given to the insect world.

Some basic instincts are passed down through the genetic code with the time-honoured saviour, a.k.a evolution.

But ants are a good example of what can't be genetically coded for.

Take army ants for instance - what do they do when they reach a small unpassable channel of water? - they have been known to cut down leaves and use them as rafts!

Impossible for this to have been passed down through the genetic code - how could you give a chemical signal that tells an ant that if sometime in its life it were to encounter an unpassable channel of water it is to make a raft!

This cannot be passed over as natural selection, adaptation - this is a good example of the Life Force in action.

It could even be possible for the ants to combine their mental abilities in this type of scenario to work out the best possible course of action to take.

Nature has many mysterious powers.

You need to define "intelligence" and "instinct" and then explain the difference between the two.

'Cause based on my understanding of what those two words mean and the difference between them, your OP is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Impossible for this to have been passed down through the genetic code ...
This cannot be passed over as natural selection, adaptation ...

So sayeth nnmartin:

• whose areas of expertise are?
• whose scientific credentials are?
• whose credibility is?

So many questions! But at least we can marvel at the brilliant strategy on display: fabricate facts then announce victory. On the other hand, the only "force" on display here is the force of willful ignorance.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Here you go nn,

Maybe you can find some copies at your local library.

Journal of Insect Behavior

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Here you go nn,

Maybe you can find some copies at your local library.

Journal of Insect Behavior

It ain't happening. The root of 'ignorance' is 'ignore.'

 

[Noaidi]

....But ants are a good example of what can't be genetically coded for.

Take army ants for instance - what do they do when they reach a small unpassable channel of water? - they have been known to cut down leaves and use them as rafts!

Impossible for this to have been passed down through the genetic code - how could you give a chemical signal that tells an ant that if sometime in its life it were to encounter an unpassable channel of water it is to make a raft!

This cannot be passed over as natural selection, adaptation - this is a good example of the Life Force in action.

From: Animal Behavior/Behavioral Genetics - Wikibooks, open books for an open world
"Although genes may play a role in many behaviors, they never determine them. There are no genes that directly code for a behavior - genes only code for proteins. However, it is clear that a change in a single protein can cause a host of downstream effects and may even bring about a distinct phenotype.The external environment exerts a strong influence on how all genes are expressed in behavior via a development of nervous and hormonal mechanisms."

From: Genes and Behavior
"All behavior is the joint product of heredity and environment, but differences in behavior can be apportioned between hereditary and environment."


Instead of making emphatic claims...

But ants are a good example of what can't be genetically coded for.

Impossible for this to have been passed down through the genetic code.

This cannot be passed over as natural selection...

...why not frame your points as a question? It'll show that you are willing to learn, rather than making factually erroneous claims. There are many on this site who are scientifically literate - it may be worth your while learning from them rather than barging in with "impossible! Can't be done!"

Just a thought.

 

[nnmartin]

How did you learn to type that on your computer? Was that knowledge passed down through your dna?

Oh yeah, it was your life force in action! lol say hi to master yoda for me

I learnt how to type by reading a 'teach yourself touch typing' book.

I don't imagine there are too many ants around that have read 'what to do when your ant colony reaches an impassable channel of water'.

Ants can't learn , they can only do.

...why not frame your points as a question? It'll show that you are willing to learn, rather than making factually erroneous claims.
Just a thought.

so how do they know how to make a raft?

 

[tumbleweed41]

I learnt how to type by reading a 'teach yourself touch typing' book.

I don't imagine there are too many ants around that have read 'what to do when your ant colony reaches an impassable channel of water'.

Ants can't learn , they can only do.



so how do they know how to make a raft?

Psst...

Here you go nn,

Maybe you can find some copies at your local library.

Journal of Insect Behavior

 

[nnmartin]

Here you go nn,

Maybe you can find some copies at your local library.

I'm hardly likely to download a whole book on insect behaviour however interesting it may be.

I doubt the book really understands the Force either so it would just be going over old material.

Is it not strange that the more intelligent an animal becomes then the more his shape changes into a man , ie: horse - dog - monkey - ape - human?

That is no coincidence - all animals want to evolve into humans as dictated by the Law of the Universe.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

nn, really, you should start reading more on the subject, if you want to talk so much about it.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Is it not strange that the more intelligent an animal becomes then the more his shape changes into a man , ie: horse - dog - monkey - ape - human?

- dolphin....



oops.

 

[nnmartin]

I have read some material on these various subjects.

I understand the scientific concepts - Ie: evolution, adaptation, learned behaviour, chemistry etc..and that all these systems operate within the Laws of Physics.

But who made the Law?

The Law allows for all this to happen.

The Law is there for a reason.

 

[nnmartin]

dolphins are like the men of the sea.

They are also the most human looking of the aquatic organisms.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

dolphins are like the men of the sea.

They are also the most human looking of the aquatic organisms.

They look nothing like humans. Your odd anthropomorphic statement is totally false, I'm afraid.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I have read some material on these various subjects.

But none from actual scientific sources. Only from those who criticize it based on a lack of knowledge. It's evident in your posts.

I understand the scientific concepts - Ie: evolution, adaptation, learned behaviour, chemistry etc..and that all these systems operate within the Laws of Physics.

But who made the Law?

The Law allows for all this to happen.

The Law is there for a reason.

Nobody made it; we simply observe and codify it so we can understand how it affects everything else.

But seriously, no, you don't understand these concepts.

 

[not nom]

dolphins are like the men of the sea.

no, that's clearly whales.

They are also the most human looking of the aquatic organisms.

they used to live on land - so much for becoming more like man as they became more intelligent, heh ^^

 

[Android]

Ants can't learn , they can only do.

So you're an ant then?

 

[Noaidi]

so how do they know how to make a raft?

GT | Newsroom - How Fire Ants Build Waterproof Rafts
"To determine how this is possible, Tovey and the team tracked the ants’ travel and measured the raft’s dimensions. They found the ants move using a stereotyped sequence of behavior. The ants walk in straight lines, ricocheting off the edges of the raft and walking again until finally adhering to an edge, Tovey said. The ant raft is water repellent because of cooperative behavior."


Fire ants self-assemble into waterproof rafts to survive floods
"Central to the construction process is the trapping of ants at the raft edge by their neighbors, suggesting that some “cooperative” behaviors may rely upon coercion."


Ferry Tale: Fire Ants Aggregate into Living Rafts to Escape Floods: Scientific American
"When a clump of ants is dropped into water, the ants on the bottom grip onto one another to form a stable base whereas ants on top slowly expand the edges of the raft. This seemingly coordinated teamwork is actually just random walking on the level of individual ants, Mlot says. When an ant arrives at the edge of the raft, it either turns around or is forced to the bottom by other ants pushing behind it and then walking on top of it. "Central to the construction process is the trapping of ants at the raft edge by their neighbors, suggesting that some 'cooperative' behaviors may rely upon coercion," the researchers wrote."


Google 'ant raft behaviour'. There are pages of references for you to have a look through.

Edit: if you are genuinely interested in ant social behaviour, have a look at the work of Edward O. Wilson.