Any cops on RF?

[stacey bo bacey]

Oh really....how about this for a lie..after many hours of interogation and sleep deprivation they will tell a suspect that if they just "admit" to any involvement in said crime they will let them go home..or "do everything we can to help you" and on and on ...

Yep, I can't believe they are allowed to do this. They'll tell you everything will work out, you'll be better off, they're just trying to help. LIES. They get paid to make sure you get into legal trouble. Some will even say "just cooperate and you can go home." Yea, you'll go home. Then get a knock on your door a few hours later with a warrant for your arrest.

But I saw a special on this..A case where a young woman was murdered in her apartment..She had a LOT of "friends" lived the party life..and so on...

Well 4 young men were possibble suspects..All four had some sort of "motive"..

But it was not in dispute ..there was one killer...

They all denied the murder...all passed lie detector test but one who refused to take it..The 3 that took the test were told they had "failed it"

All 4 confessed after the "interogations" that they were the lone killer..

They all got the details wrong on how the girl was murderd..And the physical evidence was inconclusive at best that any one of them had committed the crime..

They all went to prison for her murder..based on thier "confessions"

Love

Dallas

What?! When did this happen??? That is outrageous. Has nothing been done to remedy that situation?

 

[stacey bo bacey]

This makes me like you even more Stacey!

Aw, shucks, thanks! :rainbow1:

Thanks for spreading awareness about this subject; it's something that sorely needs to be address.

No problem. I have never been too fond of cops for the most part, but I didn't know the extent of what was going on or how to help. I really want to start a D.C. chapter for Copwatch. I know there's plenty of shadiness goin' on downtown.

 

[Charity]

The main point is if we stay within the law we are not subject to any type of real encounter with a law enforcement official. They are there to help deter crime and to find and arrest the perpetrator of any crime. If you think they are a problem try facing life with out them. I'm sure there are law officials who do a wonderful job and stay within the limits that is alloted them, but by the same token you have those who abuse their position and use it to harass, terrorize, and use their position for their own self gain by taking payoffs and other means of unlawful and ill gotten gains. Some who feel that they are above the law and that it is for others but not them.
I have a son who is in law enforcement in a large city and believe me, you would be glad to know that you have those officers there to protect and serve citizens. Please don't judge all of them by a few bad ones........Thank you

 

[stacey bo bacey]

The main point is if we stay within the law we are not subject to any type of real encounter with a law enforcement official.

That really isn't the point at all. It's about asserting your rights. If you think no one gets encountered unless they have or appeared to have broken the law, I can show you plenty of videos where Copwatch organizers have filmed people doing absolutely nothing but breathing and they are encountered by police who then ask them who they are, to show some identification (to which you can say "no" or "I do not consent to this conversation"), and what they're doing around these parts and where they're headed. Harmless questions, sure. But not NECESSARY. Would you answer all those questions and show ID to someone who just walked up and asked you? A cop is no different. I don't have to provide them with information just because they FEEL like asking me. It's none of their business who I am or what I'm doing.

They are there to help deter crime and to find and arrest the perpetrator of any crime.

Unless there is an obvious crime being committed in the vicinity of where I'm standing, them approaching me, initiating a conversation and then proceeding to ask for my ID and about my plans is completely unnecessary and irrelevant.

If you think they are a problem try facing life with out them. I'm sure there are law officials who do a wonderful job and stay within the limits that is alloted them, but by the same token you have those who abuse their position and use it to harass, terrorize, and use their position for their own self gain by taking payoffs and other means of unlawful and ill gotten gains. Some who feel that they are above the law and that it is for others but not them.
I have a son who is in law enforcement in a large city and believe me, you would be glad to know that you have those officers there to protect and serve citizens. Please don't judge all of them by a few bad ones........Thank you

Thanks for your input Charity. I still generally dislike cops. :cover: But that's ok, it's just my view! No doubt AT ALL we need them. I can't stress that enough. If I were being raped, mugged, murdered, threatened I would want the cop to do his job. But many rottens all but spoil the bunch, unfortunately. And when I see countless video of horrendous police brutality, smugness, & domination, it sure doesn't help their cause either. I believe some of the rights granted to cops should be taken away.

I've met ONE cool cop in my life. He took me to jail! (Long story ) But we talked and laughed the whole way there. He was like "Man, I'm sorry I gotta do this but it's my job. If I ever see you at Tiki Bob's [bar in Richmond] all your drinks are on me." But he only chose being a cop after he was injured and couldn't play football. Sooooooooo, yea....

 

[CaptainXeroid]

First, I'm not a cop or a lawyer, but I've studied bits of pieces of law and worked with lawyers, so I say I play one on the internet.

...In America, if an ordianry police officer tries to arrest you stating that they suspect you of an offence, then you have the right to request a lawyer, and you may refuse until you can see a superior officer...

I'm not sure where you got this information, but it's not correct. You do have a right to have a lawyer present during quesitoning, but you do not have the right to refuse to be arrested until a lawyer is available. If you try to invoke such a 'right', you will likely face additional charges of resisting arrest.

As to the OP, the rules for cops to search your person and/or property vary depending on where you are. If you are in your home, they generally must produce a search warrant stating for what they are searching and what the probable cause to search is.

If you are in a public place or in your car, the police have more latitude to detain you and/or conduct a search based on probably cause without a search warrant.

I realize there are always going to be bad cop stories and that they are going to get a disproporionate amount of attention, but it's important to remember that the vast majority of cops DO follow the laws relating to right of the accused. Most of the time it's a dangerous and thankless job to make the world a better place.

 

[Charity]

I understand Stacey, I don't particularly like doctors, but I am going to be at the mercy of one sooner or later......Some things in life are inevitable.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

I understand Stacey, I don't particularly like doctors, but I am going to be at the mercy of one sooner or later......Some things in life are inevitable.

Good point, Charity. But I like doctors.

Agree to disagree! :rainbow1:

 

[stacey bo bacey]

First, I'm not a cop or a lawyer, but I've studied bits of pieces of law and worked with lawyers, so I say I play one on the internet.
I'm not sure where you got this information, but it's not correct. You do have a right to have a lawyer present during quesitoning, but you do not have the right to refuse to be arrested until a lawyer is available. If you try to invoke such a 'right', you will likely face additional charges of resisting arrest.

As to the OP, the rules for cops to search your person and/or property vary depending on where you are. If you are in your home, they generally must produce a search warrant stating for what they are searching and what the probable cause to search is.

If you are in a public place or in your car, the police have more latitude to detain you and/or conduct a search based on probably cause without a search warrant.

I realize there are always going to be bad cop stories and that they are going to get a disproporionate amount of attention, but it's important to remember that the vast majority of cops DO follow the laws relating to right of the accused. Most of the time it's a dangerous and thankless job to make the world a better place.

Hey Captain--

Thank you for your expertise!

And yes, yes there are some good cops. I wanted to focus on the corrupt ones though, so yea this thread is going to be full of bad cop stories.

 

[Charity]

Good point, Charity. But I like doctors.

Agree to disagree! :rainbow1:

Oh I agree to disagree, but one more point, If you worked with doctors as long as I have you would find out that there are also good doctors and bad doctors. Just like the cops

 

[.lava]

ehe
there are no bad cops. there are no bad doctors. there are just bad people who happened to be cops, doctors...ect. they are both scary, really. one with gun, other with lancet...



.

 

[.lava]

wouldn't it make cops think that you're criminal if you refuse to show your ID?



.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

ehe
there are no bad cops. there are no bad doctors. there are just bad people who happened to be cops, doctors...ect. they are both scary, really. one with gun, other with lancet...
.

That is very true, lava! I agree 100%.

But my personal, and thus naturally limited, observation is that cops end up being people who display clear signs of a superiority complex.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

wouldn't it make cops think that you're criminal if you refuse to show your ID?



.

May I ask where you live, lava?

In the US, we do not even have to speak to a cop if we do not wish, let alone offer up identification. And it doesn't matter what the cop thinks. Besides, a cop is taught what rights citizens have. So by refusing to show ID they know you are just asserting your right to do so. It aggravates them ,sure, but they can't do anything about it.

 

[Valjean]

Au contraire, stacey-bo. Cops deal with bad people all the time, and they can get very touchy.

I was nearly arrested recently at a traffic accident scene when I told an officer I was willing to waive my right to probable cause and take a breathalyzer test for intoxication.
Here I was trying to help him sort things out by being co-operative. I was trying to assist him! But he must have thought I was wiseing off or something, and became pretty peeved.

And I have other stories...

Rights or no rights, if a cop is angry or can't sort things out he's likely to arrest you just to end the affair, and let the court sort things out. People are arrested all the time in some jurisdictions or during touchy confrontations even when the cop knows you'll be released a few hours later.

A recent example:
Have you seen the video of the Linda Goodman arrest during the Republican National Convention? It's a hot item on You-Tube.(I'd link to it but I'd loose all my narrative searching for the web address -- just Google).
Short summary: Goodman's a news anchor. She was on the floor of the convention when she got word that two of her producers, who'd been legitimately videotaping a demonstration elsewhere -- press passes clearly visible -- had been arrested for felony riot or some such thing. Goodman went to the scene, by which time the demo had ended and the street was secured by a police cordon. She walked up to an officer and asked if she could speak to the officer in charge about her producer's arrests. She was immediately grabbed, rather roughly, and arrested -- for no apparent reason whatsoever!
This happens all the time. It was only by chance that the incident was videoed.

 

[SpiritualBeing]

Are you talking about traffic cops at international borders? If yes then you are absolutely right. But if you get pulled over on the road, they have absolutely no right whatsoever to search your car unless they are placing you under arrest or there is a warrant out for your arrest...which those two kinda go hand in hand.

Thanks for the info!

Yeah, I mean that say you were crossing the state border, then the "traffic" cop may legally search your vehicle without a warrant. But they can only do this if they can provide evidence of what they suspect.

Matt

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Au contraire, stacey-bo. Cops deal with bad people all the time, and they can get very touchy.

Hiya Seyorni!

Au contraire? What are you contradicting? I know cops deal with bad people all the time. That's fine, that's what we need them for. They need to protect the people while upholding our rights.

I was nearly arrested recently at a traffic accident scene when I told an officer I was willing to waive my right to probable cause and take a breathalyzer test for intoxication.
Here I was trying to help him sort things out by being co-operative. I was trying to assist him! But he must have thought I was wiseing off or something, and became pretty peeved.

A lot of times cops are looking for a fight, they want to make something unlawful materialize out of nothing. Seeing as how their reputation, job performance and paycheck are staked on meeting a certain quota for arrests/tickets, I don't give them the benefit of the doubt in most situations.

And I have other stories...

Rights or no rights, if a cop is angry or can't sort things out he's likely to arrest you just to end the affair, and let the court sort things out. People are arrested all the time in some jurisdictions or during touchy confrontations even when the cop knows you'll be released a few hours later.

The fact that you say this makes me sad. People are getting so used to the idea that police can say or do whatever they want that it just becomes second nature to jump when they say jump. "Rights or no rights?" :no: We HAVE rights. They are constitutionally protected and ensured to us by our government. No doubt cops can abuse their power and, like I have said, try to stomp on your rights and pressure you to forgo them. That is why it is SO important that we know our rights and assert them even when we know we are doing nothing unlawful.

Realistically, in the country we live in right now, you stand virtually no chance of winning an argument in court against a cop. That's the way it is, but that isn't the way it should be. Therefore, we do not need to accept that behavior. We need to resist it.

That's why I will keep endorsing copwatching, which is observing (with or without a video camera) police activity. You can freely do this (the right to observe) if you are on public property and not interfering with their work. It deters bad or unlawful police conduct and lets them know we ARE watching and we will not accept corrupt behavior.

A recent example:
Have you seen the video of the Linda Goodman arrest during the Republican National Convention? It's a hot item on You-Tube.(I'd link to it but I'd loose all my narrative searching for the web address -- just Google).
Short summary: Goodman's a news anchor. She was on the floor of the convention when she got word that two of her producers, who'd been legitimately videotaping a demonstration elsewhere -- press passes clearly visible -- had been arrested for felony riot or some such thing. Goodman went to the scene, by which time the demo had ended and the street was secured by a police cordon. She walked up to an officer and asked if she could speak to the officer in charge about her producer's arrests. She was immediately grabbed, rather roughly, and arrested -- for no apparent reason whatsoever!
This happens all the time. It was only by chance that the incident was videoed.

That is very disturbing. Straight up violation of the producer's 1st Amendment right for freedom of the press. And the news anchor ARRESTED for asking a question? I will certainly Google this. I'm curious about the outcome, I wonder how the cops were punished IF they even were.

 

[gnomon]

Police officers are human beings. They are humans routinely put into situations that will not have a textbook guideline to follow. I've encountered police on more than a dozen occasions. I was arrested on four of those. In every instance, except one, I found the officers to not only be reasonable but usually friendly.

The one exception is when I pulled up behind one cop after another cop had pulled my friend over in another friends driveway. The cops were looking for a red car racing through the neighborhood and it just so happened that myself and my friend happened to drive red cars and just coincided to encounter the police at a stop sign while picking up the neighborhood crew for a basketball game. I can understand why the cop wasn't happy with me pulling up behind him but it gave him no grounds to search my entire vehicle. We were all minors at the time and the father of the friend whose house we stopped at nearly called state police on the local police for an unlawful search. I miss that old hippie.

Anyway, there's a distinction to be made between police officers, bad cops and laws that all l.e.o.'s must enforce. I'm reminded of the misdemeanor possession related arrest in which the arresting officer actually told me that it was a waste of his time and if it had not been for five other police officers being on the scene he would have just let me go. Most of those other police officers were talking to my friend who happened to be the son-in-law of their drinking buddy who was a firefighter at a local military base. The whole seriousness of a "drug" arrest just wasn't there and in the long run wasn't really a big deal. Except for my record, of course.

The best way to help alleviate the issue of corruption in law enforcement in my opinion is doing away with many of the laws that allow such corruption to exist. Also actually paying law enforcement officers decent salaries would help. Do away with quotas. Many things.

A recent event which involved a police shooting during a "wrong door" drug raid highlights some of the problems in discussing these issues. The police followed the information they were given. They were given the wrong information. The raid was a night raid which caused the homeowner to believe he was being attacked by criminals. The homeowner opened fire and the police returned fire. Thankfully nobody was hurt. The local bigwigs, in a P.R. blunder, awarded the police. In discussions over the event one can usually see many complaints issued against the individual police officers. That's wrong. The real issue is the legislative and judiciary members who allow such law enforcement tactics.

Last word about the video of Amy Goodman.
Google "Amy Goodman" arrested rnc - 432,00 hits
Google "Esequiel Hernandez" - 21,000 hits

Yes, the latter happened prior to the youtube phenomenon and their has been an increase in internet productivity since that time. However, the RNC was a week ago. The mass interest given to someone arrested and released shortly thereafter when given a lawful order by a police officer (just read the sky is falling attitude by commentors on the videos for Amy Goodman) surpass hyperbole and enter into delusional when compared to the lack of interest in what the state does do in border patorl, eminent domain and the drug war. Protests are where well-to-do white folks go to shout inanities (where the hell were they at the DNC if they are rational people anyway) and scream oppression every time a cop scratches their nose. It doesn't help that the history of anarchist groups trashing private and public property to no end sets a reasonable precedent for the local government and police to be wary. It doesn't excuse all actions by the police but for people to believe that say, the arrest of Amy Goodman, is the coming of the fascist apocalypse is insulting to the intellect.

edit: And don't confuse what I stated above with thinking the arrest of Goodman and others may be wrong. It most likely was. It's the chicken little mentality that inhabits the minds of the "truth movement" and others who pay absolutely no attention to what goes on in this country other than "pop" protests and exaggerate one aspect of our society while completely ignoring the realities of another.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's why I will keep endorsing copwatching, which is observing (with or without a video camera) police activity. You can freely do this (the right to observe) if you are on public property and not interfering with their work. It deters bad or unlawful police conduct and lets them know we ARE watching and we will not accept corrupt behavior.

If someone has a legitimate, specific concern regarding the police, I can maybe see a need for something like this, but to just do something like that for no good reason seems to me to be a pretty crappy way to behave toward people who do a difficult job to help make their communities better places.

I know you said you wanted to specifically address bad cops in this thread, but not all cops are bad cops. Most cops aren't bad cops.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

If someone has a legitimate, specific concern regarding the police, I can maybe see a need for something like this, but to just do something like that for no good reason seems to me to be a pretty crappy way to behave toward people who do a difficult job to help make their communities better places.

I know you said you wanted to specifically address bad cops in this thread, but not all cops are bad cops. Most cops aren't bad cops.

If the cops aren't doing anything wrong, then cop watch is actually a service for the cop. I say, video tape all cop activity if we can.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If the cops aren't doing anything wrong, then cop watch is actually a service for the cop.

I disagree. Personally, the message I want to send to good cops is "I appreciate the fact you have to deal with awful people and situations on my behalf." I think the message that videotaping any cop you come across sends is "I mistrust you." I don't think these messages are compatible with each other.

And "cop watch" would only be a service to the cop if he or she had some reasonable expectation that the videotape evidence would ever show up in his or her own defense. I don't think that's a reasonable thing for the cop to expect from someone who mistrusts and dislikes police to the point of videotaping their actions.