Any Downside to Atheism?

[Autodidact]

This is the big problem with getting those who call themselves agnostics to understand strong atheism. The strong atheist does not deny that beings may exist "out there" that are vastly beyond us, but such beings would not be God.

Similarly, miracle working deities are not God. They are just advanced technology.

To be "God" requires omnipotence, and this leads to self-referential logical contradictions -- and this is the basis of strong atheism -- the rejection of the existence of such transcendent, omnipotent, etc., beings, on the basis of logical contradiction.

I consider myself a strong atheist. My position is based on logic and language, but is not (primarily) this one.

btw, I don't think the definition of all Gods is omnipotence, just the Abrahamic God.

 

[Alceste]

I consider myself a strong atheist. My position is based on logic and language, but is not (primarily) this one.

btw, I don't think the definition of all Gods is omnipotence, just the Abrahamic God.

Agreed. Perhaps Frank is lacking in familiarity with religions other than the Big Three.

 

[Corkscrew]

we know ancient hebrews created god in my opinion

the bible states
he created the stars in 1 day we know that is a lie
he created man in 1 day we know that is a lie
he created all the plants in a day another lie
he created woman from a rib is a lie
he created animals in 1 day is another lie
the same language before the tower of babel is a lie
he created the global flood is lie

this is the tip of the iceberg of all the lies the bible tells

so with all those blatant lies about things god created YOU with a straight face are going to tell me you think this myth created the whole universe???? :slap:

you lie to your friends and ill lie to mine but lets not lie to each other because of a 3000 year old sheep herders myth/guide for primitive people :yes:

What makes you think I’m referring to a man made god? I have absolutely no belief in the bible or any other man made religion. I am however curious about what might have sparked the Big Bang, and I was curious how “Strong Atheists” view the question.

 

[outhouse]

What makes you think I’m referring to a man made god? I have absolutely no belief in the bible or any other man made religion. I am however curious about what might have sparked the Big Bang, and I was curious how “Strong Atheists” view the question.

wish I knew what caused the singularity.

for 200,000 man has reached for a spirit or deity to answer questions man did not know. I think we are passed that primitive method in our understanding of the nature of our universe.

I think we should look for every possibility but a supernatuiral cause

 

[outhouse]

What makes you think I’m referring to a man made god?

because you made this statement below

I do however entertain the possibility of a creator

and any creation myth is man made

 

[Corkscrew]

That's the same question all over again. I answered it by pointing out that one is compelled, by rules of reason, not to deny the possible existence of unknown "entities". So in plain English, yes, I acknowledge the possibility of a creator (or a tooth fairy) but I have no reason whatsoever to think that either of these characters exists - and neither do you. So why does this futile question even arise?


The existence of a speck of dust, never mind a universe, does not in any way, shape or fashion, entail the existence of a creator, much less a supernatural being.

But here is what drives me crazy. Even if the universe did entail a creator (as opposed to a creation) what on Earth would lead your mind to leap over mountains of unrequited conjecture only to assign personality traits to the unknown entity? It is pure insanity, don't you see that?

Wouldn't you rather join me in looking for fascinating answers that can be found? It's so much more satisfying and rewarding! Evolution, for example, is such a marvel; it makes me dizzy with delight to imagine the intricate "miracles" that have transpired over millions and millions of years. The most amazing product of evolution, to me, is the brain's capacity for awareness of self and our environment. Combined with the power of reason, a human being is the "god" that eludes you. Our intelligence, compassion, moral conviction, creativity, imagination, curiosity, emotions, wisdom, love, and much more, is what makes us equal to any god you hope to meet. Hence the truth in the old saying, "Man is not made in god's image; god is not made in Man's image."

You wanted to know what I believe, well that's it in a nutshell.

I think this accounts for my hot temper when debating with believers. They have all the answers right under their noses but they look beyond, into an abyss of nonsense, for answers to their nonsense questions. Meanwhile, they're missing the splendid show of fireworks called reality.

You want gods? Here we are. You want miracles? They're right in front of you.

I have no religious belief at all. I think all religion is BS. I believe in the Big Bang theory, and I do believe that speck of dust was created. It's matter and energy created in the big bang, maybe not directly, but as a dying star expelling mass into space then eventually ending up a speck of dust on a planet. I’m a big believer in cause and effect, that’s why I contemplate how the Big Bang may have occurred. I was under the, apparently mistaken, belief that “Strong Atheists” flat out refused to believe that there could have been any outside intervention in the creation of the universe. Obviously you keep an open mind and go where the facts take you. I do however, let my mind wander into realms that science probably will never be able to take us. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t sit around all day and imagine how the Big Bang may have happened, it’s just that there is no satisfying closer for me on the thought.

 

[Corkscrew]

because you made this statement below



and any creation myth is man made

I should have indicated that I was using that term loosely. I have no idea if creator is the right word. It might very well be something impossible to attach a label to. I wish I knew what caused the singularity too; if we did, I don’t think this site would exist.

 

[Frank Merton]

I consider myself a strong atheist. My position is based on logic and language, but is not (primarily) this one.

btw, I don't think the definition of all Gods is omnipotence, just the Abrahamic God.

I'm not sure who the "Abrahamic god" is supposed to be: up to now I have assumed this is a way of referring to "Jehovah/Christ/Allah." Jehovah did not start out omnipotent, and he never behaves as an omnipotent deity. Christ was not made omnipotent until the second or third century with the rise of the Trinity. So, only Allah started out omnipotent (under Christian influence). I dare say most people who use the word in their religion use it only as a glorifying adjective, without much real meaning. That is because I can't see how anyone who really understands the word can think such a being is possible. (Of course, during the Middle Ages doubts were dangerous -- better to gloss over the puzzle).

In Asia the idea of an omnipotent deity never really appeared. Nowadays a few Hindus say that Brahma is omnipotent, but this is quite recent and I suspect under Western influence.

Now, as to less-than-omnipotent deities, who knows? It's a big universe. The evidence for these beings is mythical, so you can believe or not believe as you like. The question arises whether these entities, if they exist at all, can be called "God" (with a capital g). I would say no. They are subject to the same processes of nature as we are, having, as it were, abilities (technology) that seems magic to us, but then magic is really only a word for technology one doesn't understand.

 

[Frank Merton]

Agreed. Perhaps Frank is lacking in familiarity with religions other than the Big Three.

Did you look at my profile? I am a Buddhist. I live (at the moment) in Cambodia.

 

[andys]

I have no religious belief at all. I think all religion is BS.

I'm happy to hear that! Really.

I believe in the Big Bang theory, and I do believe that speck of dust was created.

Me too. I said a speck of dust does not entail a creator.

I was under the, apparently mistaken, belief that “Strong Atheists” flat out refused to believe that there could have been any outside intervention in the creation of the universe.

Not quite. Atheists do in fact, flat out deny that an "outside intervention" (i.e., a divine creation) took place, because we flat out deny that a divine creator exists. However, we are cautious not to deny the possibility that such a creator could exist, since it is not (logically) reasonable to deny the possibility that a divine creator could exist, (along with a unicorn or a tooth fairy). The simple reason is that the state of existence for all sorts of fairy tale creatures is not (logically) impossible. But this so-called possibility is by no means a concession that the existence of a god or a tooth fairy is probable, or likely, or to be taken seriously one single bit.

I really hope you see what I am saying. It is a very important point. Believers smack their lips when they hear an atheist "admit" that the existence of a god is a (logical) "possibility". What they fail to appreciate is that in this special, logical sense of the word "possible," it is equally possible that, there exists, hiding under their bed, a one-eyed, one-horned, flyin' purple people eater.

II do however, let my mind wander into realms that science probably will never be able to take us. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t sit around all day and imagine how the Big Bang may have happened, it’s just that there is no satisfying closer for me on the thought.

As a professional graphic designer/illustrator (now a retired graphic design teacher), I can appreciate spending considerable time in the realm of the imagination, considering all sorts of crazy ideas, like supernatural beings and a blissful afterlife. Religious beliefs are very seductive to the unwary mind. Yet your power of reason blew the whistle on nonsense and returned you safely back to reality. Bravo. I respect you for that. Thank God for reason!

 

[confusedius]

There is a SPECIAL HELL for atheists! Eternity as a Federal bureaucrat...

 

[Willamena]

There's a special place in Hell reserved just for those people who believe in Hell. (I forget who said that.)