any weapons on you?

[Riverwolf]

Whaaaaat? Okay, what about screw drivers and hammers? Kitchen cutlery? What if you accidentally break a leg off a table?

Does the proverbial harness really give your society a sense comfort and security?

There's a reason why V for Vendetta was set in the UK. The dedication page listed as the only real dedication as: "People who don't turn off the news."

 

[nazz]

If you want to roll those dice, that's your prerogative. However, there is an issue to be taken with with those who insist that others take unnecessary risks and make unnecessary sacrifices.

It's my personal philosophy based on following what I see as the teachings of Jesus. But I would not expect others to do it.

 

[apophenia]

You're the one assuming on this one, as my statement was based on no such assumption.

True. My bad.

 

[oldbadger]

I've heard of that before. Im surprised by the magnitude of weapons banned in the UK. Does it actually affect the crime rate or rate of people assaulting with a deadly weapon?

Hi Dreadfish....

Yes, the crime rate of people assaulting with weapons in the UK is affected significantly, downwards.

I trained commercial detectives, served legal process, traced people and also worked part-time as a retail thief catcher for decades. Over the last twenty years before I retired I arrested many thousands of store thieves, and nobody ever pulled a gun on me in that time or before. On a very few occasions thieves drew knives, but only two of those actually tried to stick me.

On about three occasions I didn't realise that a thief had friends nearby, who then came at me from behind with lumps of wood or (once) a tyre spanner. The most dangerous situation that I ever saw were when I miscalculated and thieves got to a vehicle before I could reach them, and then drove away through a retail car-park like crazy, nearly hitting pedestrians.

But no guns. And apart from the occasional kicking I was never injured by a weapon because I always wore a kevlar under-shirt breast-plate and (during the arrest) a special helmet which just looked like a woolly hat. These saved me from the two knife thrusts, the wood clubbings and that tyre spanner.

So...... if you can wear it, body armour can sometimes beat weapons.

 

[methylatedghosts]

So, reading this thread and I'm amazed at the number of people who arm themselves. Surely it's not THAT scary out there!

 

[ResistETIntervention]

Not a very good dodge: that you claim that weapons don't provide security, then I assure that in my case and others they do, and then you say that it's false.

No, I said that carrying weapons provides a false sense of security. I think you are capable of discerning the difference in those statements.

One HUGE mistake to make is to assume that the willingness to do harm to another human being if necessary automatically means a complete lack of love. The world does not operate in binary. I'm pretty sure Jack the Ripper would not have stopped if one of his victims decided to just give him a big hug.

No, that was not my assumption. Yet, you did state that it is a huge mistake to assume such willingness means a COMPLETE lack of love.

If a person has lost his self-determination and his (her) mind is controlled by the extraterrestrials, then he might, say, go on a shooting spree. You may know a few cases worldwide, in which, at the end of his endeavor, the individual shoots himself essentially getting rid of the most important evidence in the event - himself. Perhaps love may not touch the individual and he may not be capable of experiencing love and compassion for others, due to the fact that his mind is being controlled by those who cannot experience such feelings themselves.

There are also Forces of Dissonance in the world. The following is a quote from a book I’ve been studying: (“The Problem of Evil and the Forces of Dissonance” from the book “Relationships and Higher Purpose&#8221

There are Forces of Dissonance in the world. They oppose the unity of life. They oppose the evolution of life [here, it means return to God or journey back to God]. They oppose the work of Knowledge [the Holy Spirit within individuals]. These forces are generated from both within the world and beyond the world. These forces are evil in the sense that they oppose the unity and evolution of life. They are disruptive. They seek to separate what must be joined, and they seek to join what must be separated.
…
Do not combat evil because it will seduce you as you do so. With only ambition, you will combat evil and it will always be victorious. For its proponents were once combatants against it in many cases. In other words, many of those who now support and speak for evil were once opposed to it.

 

[ResistETIntervention]

I give you two quotes that I abide by:

"I have no enemies; only misguided friends." -Gandhi
"Do you have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." –Churchill
They may appear to contradict each other, but they're easy to reconcile.

“I have no enemies, only misguided friends.” “Do you have misguided friends? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.”

 

[ResistETIntervention]

Don't be naive. The human species has always been a violent one.

Human species can also learn to become less so. Have many people in your country always been carrying weapons? If I stopped a person on the street there, would s/he be a weapon carrier with a high probability? Why is there so much fear there? Are people walking around fearing for their life?

Defending oneself and having love and compassion aren't mutually exclusive, and if someone is intent on victimizing you, using "love and compassion" won't deter or subdue them. In fact, it makes you an easy target.

Does it make me an easy target? Or will my stance touch the heart of others? Fear can work through people powerfully, but true love and compassion from the Holy Spirit within you can dissipate it.

 

[ResistETIntervention]

This has been going on since the human mind develouped the ability to use tools; weapons are tools. Back in teh day before develouped civilizations, weapons were used for things like defending yourself and your fellow humans from wild animal attacks or from a rival group of humans. Naturally, humans haven't always had the full capacity to communicate beyond language barriers so there was plenty of potential for conflict with other groups of humans. Humans have always been violent and intent upon protecting themselves against outside threats.

Yes, that is part of evolutionary process. Yet, why are people walking around in fear of their fellow human beings in modern days? Are the people carrying around weapons all living and/or working in cities?

If love and compassion were fully sufficient, Buddhist monks in China wouldn't have had to use their shovel to defend themselves from animals or robbers when they were traveling and the "monk's spade" weapon wouldn't have been created.

I’m not a Buddhist, but I was under the assumption that they do not harm any living things capable of moving on their own (that is, excluding plants).

While I can agree that a weapon often presents a false sense of security, there are many situations where the presence of a weapon prevents a situation of conflict from arising. If a guy comes up to my car window and demands something (assuming he doesnt have a gun), me lifting up a large heavy metal object could very well deter him from continuing. It's also true that the presence of a weapon can do the opposite and cause escalation in a conflict. What im reminded of is a recent case of road rage where the two men involved both had guns and ended up killing each other.

If an unarmed (how could you tell?) guy came up to you demanding something, then perhaps he is a person who is in need of food? You would deter him with a weapon?

Yes, the latter situation and many unfortunate situations involving youngsters with weapons that they took from home as in some notable cases recently….

Love and compassion aren't always feel-good-squishy-fluff-fluff and the world is a tough place. Simply appearing less formidable can make you a target for violence while simply appearing formidable can totally avert a conflict all together because most people don't actually want to mess with someone who could be difficult or actually reciprocate the aggression back at them.

I absolutely agree with the first statement. They can be manifested in various ways and even in ways most people would not regard as stemmed from love and compassion.

Regarding the second statement, if the world were filled with formidable people who were willing to harm others simply out of fear, it truly would not be a place anyone carrying weapons would wish to live in, and they would be the ones creating such world.

 

[ResistETIntervention]

Having read some of your threads, I thought that you might have had (at the very least) a cosmic ray atomic blaster under your bed.......

I’m not sure what you mean. Do you think I may be living in constant fear because I know about the ET Intervention? Or do you think I own some extraterrestrial weapons?

 

[Riverwolf]

“I have no enemies, only misguided friends.” “Do you have misguided friends? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.”

Heh. Wrong. When Churchill spoke of "enemies" he didn't mean "misguided friends." He meant something else.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, I said that carrying weapons provides a false sense of security. I think you are capable of discerning the difference in those statements.

'Tis not false at all.

No, that was not my assumption. Yet, you did state that it is a huge mistake to assume such willingness means a COMPLETE lack of love.

It is. I love my fellow humankind, but I'm not afraid to defend myself if I'm attacked.

If a person has lost his self-determination and his (her) mind is controlled by the extraterrestrials, then he might, say, go on a shooting spree.

Do you SERIOUSLY expect me to believe shooting sprees are caused by aliens?!

You're going to need to provide some REALLY good evidence for such a frankly offensive claim. Statements in random books by random people don't count.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam,

for sole purpose of self-defense, do you carry a weapon? got one in your home? or in your vehicle?
what sort of weapon?

Nope. No weapon. No need at all.
In case of problem, there are other means of self defense than carrying firearms or things like that.

 

[Revoltingest]

So, reading this thread and I'm amazed at the number of people who arm themselves. Surely it's not THAT scary out there!

For those I know who carry, it isn't scary out there at all.
Consider that taking precautions against bad things doesn't mean that one is scared of
those things, eg, wearing seat belts to avoid death, looking before crossing streets.
Perhaps some need to paint us as being frightened because then they can look upon
us as faulty or somehow lacking, eh?

 

[Father Heathen]

So, reading this thread and I'm amazed at the number of people who arm themselves. Surely it's not THAT scary out there!

Sigh.. Again, Taking reasonable safety precautions against substantial risks isn't an issue of fear. Do people who wear set belts while driving automobiles, or who wear helmets while riding bikes, or who keep a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, or who wear life-vests while boating, or who wear safety glasses while doing construction work, etc. live in constant fear of accidents? Of course not. Perhaps people are projecting their own fears regarding objects that make loud, scary noises? The knee-jerk reactions are rather telling.
Also, I think those in a state of submission, or subdued by the kiddy harness, hold a tinge of resentment toward those who are not under such a thumb.
And another thing that was already mentioned is that the U.S. has a higher level of cultural and economic diversity than these tiny, homogeneous, statist nations.

 

[Father Heathen]

For those I know who carry, it isn't scary out there at all.
Consider that taking precautions against bad things doesn't mean that one is scared of
those things, eg, wearing seat belts to avoid death, looking before crossing streets.
Perhaps some need to paint us as being frightened because then they can look upon
us as faulty or somehow lacking, eh?

Or perhaps they resent seeing people handling something that they themselves are fearful of.

 

[oldbadger]

Whaaaaat? Okay, what about screw drivers and hammers? Kitchen cutlery? What if you accidentally break a leg off a table?

Does the proverbial harness really give your society a sense comfort and security?

I can only tell you how 'things' are here.
It's not my burden to defend our laws, but what was my burden for decades was to prepare and train commercial detectives for many kinds of work and situations.

I also interviewed, selected, trained and passed recruits for several big companies. Good thief catchers and detectives often found themselves in Magistrates and (sometimes) Crown Courts, and when they were well trained (and had good mindsets), they could show a Judge, Bench or Jury that their decisions and actions had been reasonable. But 'Loud', 'Contentious' and (esp) 'Conflict-high' candidates never got to those venues, because we never selected them...... they were almost always like 'disasters waiting to happen'.

Our 'Conflict Control' courses which I often trained at were brilliant, and there are many cases where one sentence ended an incident that could have ended in injury or worse.

And so I have no strong opinion about what you do, how many guns you need, etc...... but I know that a good mind, trained to avoid conflict or reduce it when necessary is the best mind, and I know (because I know some) that our and your ex-special forces girls and boys are a very quiet, conflict-low, uncontentious crowd of people who are just as likely to throw down their phone or wallet and stand back......... so you have to ask yourself, 'How would I handle a bad situation, like them, or some other way?' And they ain't cowards, they surely ain't.

 

[oldbadger]

I’m not sure what you mean. Do you think I may be living in constant fear because I know about the ET Intervention? Or do you think I own some extraterrestrial weapons?

The at the end of that sentence was intended to show you that it was written in humour, for friendly fun, and in the hope of a chuckle from your goodself. I don't really believe that we have developed cosmic-ray-blasters just yet...... but I'm laughing about it myself, now....

The rest of the post was deadly serious....... In the UK we go unarmed or we are breaking the law.

 

[ResistETIntervention]

The at the end of that sentence was intended to show you that it was written in humour, for friendly fun, and in the hope of a chuckle from your goodself. I don't really believe that we have developed cosmic-ray-blasters just yet...... but I'm laughing about it myself, now....

The rest of the post was deadly serious....... In the UK we go unarmed or we are breaking the law.

Yes, I realize that you were joking. I wanted to know why you would make such a joke. : )

 

[oldbadger]

Sigh.. Again, Taking reasonable safety precautions against substantial risks isn't an issue of fear. Do people who wear set belts while driving automobiles, or who wear helmets while riding bikes, or who keep a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, or who wear life-vests while boating, or who wear safety glasses while doing construction work, etc. live in constant fear of accidents? Of course not. Perhaps people are projecting their own fears regarding objects that make loud, scary noises? The knee-jerk reactions are rather telling.
Also, I think those in a state of submission, or subdued by the kiddy harness, hold a tinge of resentment toward those who are not under such a thumb.
And another thing that was already mentioned is that the U.S. has a higher level of cultural and economic diversity than these tiny, homogeneous, statist nations.

.. Hello, Revolting! ..
Firstly, I don't have any strong opinions about you guys and your guns, you can go to see your tenants in an armed Sherman, if your State will let you. biglaugh

But I do need to ask you some questions.... Ok?

Do you always secure your seat belt before you drive or ride in a vehicle? YES/NO
Do you always insist on wearing your bicycle helmet when on your bike? YES/NO
Do you also insist on wearing a high-viz jacket when cycling? YES/NO
Do you keep an 'indate' fire extinguisher in your kitchen? YES/NO
Do you always wear your life jacket when boating? YES/NO
Do you always wear protective glasses when working with tools, machinery or on building jobs? YES/NO

If you could just answer those questions we could move forward........