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'Apologiz-ing' (1 Pet. 3:15) to Muslims and Islam

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
'Apologiz-ing' (1 Pet. 3:15) to Muslims and Islam

I have studied in the religion of Islam, and have over 1,000 pages of material on various subjects, sources, etc for those desiring it, and I will share some later, and will in this thread discuss what is called "qur'an", but there is not a single such book, but multiple, with varying changes, alterations, meanings, all in arabic.

An overview (brief) History of Muhammad (Abu al Qasim [father of Qasim]) and Islam:

AD 570 - Muhammad born [supposedly, ancestry really unknown, no one knows the father of Muhammad for sure]

AD 610 - Muhammad [40 years old] met 'Jibril' in the Hira cave

AD 610 - 622 - Received 'Meccan' verses

AD 621 - Muhammad has the 'Mi'raj' to the 7 Heavens [5 Prayers/As-Salat]

AD 622 - 'Hijra' [Migration] from Mecca to Medina

AD 622 - 632 - Received 'Medinan' verses

AD 624 - There were no mosques prior to AD 624, Qibla [direction of prayer changed, from Jerusalem to Mecca [Al-Masjid-Al-Haram]], specifically to the Ka'bah [building and the blackstone [god] thereof], Qur'an surah 2 [Al-Baqarah], ayah 142-150

Qur'an - Al-Hilali-Khan; Surah 2:142-150 -

"… [v. 142] The fools among the people (pagans, hypocrites, and Jews) will say, "What has turned them (Muslims) from the Qiblah [prayer direction (towards Jerusalem)] to which they used to face in prayer." Say, (O Muhammad) "To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to the Straight Way." [v. 143] Thus We have made you [true Muslims – real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a just (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind [1] and the Messenger (Muhammad) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of Kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind. [v. 144] Verily! We have see the turning of your (Muhammad's) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (at Makkah [Mecca]). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scripture (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bah at Makkah [Mecca] in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do. [v. 145] And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) all of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction). And they will not follow each other's Qiblah (prayer direction). Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have received of knowledge (from Allah), then indeed you will be one of the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers). [v.146] Those to whom We gave the Scripture (Jews and Christians) recognise him (Muhammad or the Ka'bah at Makkah [Mecca]) as they recognise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it – [i.e. the qualities pf Muhammad which are written in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] [v.147] (This is) the truth from your Lord. So be you not one of those who doubt. [v.148] For every nation there is a direction to which they face (in their prayers). So hasten towards all that is good. Wheresoever you may be, Allah will bring you together (on the Day of Resurrection). Truly, Allah is Able to do all things. [v.149] And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (at Makkah [Mecca]), that is indeed the truth from your Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. [v.150] And from wheresoever you start forth (your prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (at Makkah [Mecca]), and wheresoever you are, turn your faces towards it (when you pray) so that men may have no argument against you except those of them that are wrong-doers, so fear them not, but fear Me! – And so that I may complete My Blessings on you and that you may be guided. ..."​

AD 630 - Conquered Mecca 'peacefully', in the area of the Hijaz [Roman controlled province]

AD 632 - Died horribly of accumulated effects of poisoning [from the battle of Kaybar], there was as yet no official written or totally compiled [into one source] qur'an.

AD 632 - 634 - Abu Bakr [Father of Aishah, favorite wife of Muhammad], Rightly Guided Caliph of Muhammad, takes over

AD 634 - 644 - Umar [daughter Hafsa], starts conquering other cities - Bozrah, Baghdad, Damascus, Jerusalem, Cairo

AD 642 - The 5 Great cities of the Levant - Basra, Baghdad, Damascus, Jerusalem, Cairo, are now under Arab [not Muslim] control. Also Alexandria, Aden, Merat and Nishapur.

AD 644 - 656 - Uthman [Othman], he has the various qur'anic materials [like Hafsa's, daughter of Umar] compiled into one official [Zaid ibn Thabit, secretary of Muhammad, re-write and correct, and if any difficulty, use the Qur'aishi language, language of Muhammad's Ummah people, along with three other men], and burns all of the rest which differed, or were lost, had additions, etc.

4 main Uthman copies were made,

[1] Medina,

[2] Basra,

[3] Baghdad,

[4] Damascus,​

of which two are supposed to be still around, the Topkapi Mushaf [in Turkey, Istanbul, mid - 8th century] and the Sammarqand Mushaf [Tashkent early - mid 8th century], but they are not that old, but later [Umayyad period, 8th century], and contain errors, and are only half manuscripts.

Others are the:

[1] Ma'il [Britain, Hijazi text],

[2] Petropolitanus [Paris, see Francois Deroche 2009:172-177],

[3] Houseini [al-Mashhad al-Husayni] Cairo, Egypt, see Tayyar Altikulac Al Mushaf Al Sharif 2007:36, footnote 14a],

[4] San'aa manuscripts, see the book Al Mushaf Al Sharif, Prof. Dr. Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, and Dr. Tayyar Altikulac.​

AD 650 - Official Uthmanic recension of the various qur'ans compiled into one, all others destroyed

AD 656 - 661 - Ali [Adopted son of Muhammad], whom the Shia adhere to as the rightful heir

AD 661 - North Africa controlled by the Arabs, and goes into Spain, then to the east, in India

AD 685 - 705 - Abd al'Malik, comes to power

AD 685 - coins with Muhammad's name on them, no other record of this name before this date, that is known

AD 691 - dome of the rock,:

[1] first Arab inscription referencing 'Muhammad' [Volker Popp-Ohlig & Puin, 2010:53];

[2] the first reference to 'Muslims' is in the 690's [Chronicle of John of Niku' – 1602],

[3] the first Arab reference to 'Muslim' if just prior to AD 749 [Nevo & Koren, 2003:234], otherwise they re simply 'Saracen' [Arab], 'Hagarene', 'Ishmaelite', 'Maghraye', 'Muhajiroun' [in exodus, nomad];

[4] the first reference to 'Islam' is not until AD 691 [Dome of the Rock] [Volker Popp-Ohlig & Puin, 2010:71],

[5] the first reference to 'Mecca' is not until AD 741 [Patricia Crone 1987:134-136 [found in Apocalypse of pseudo-Methodius Continuatio Byzantia Arabica, early reign of caliph Hisham]; Hoyland 1997:426; Tom Holland, In the Shadow of the Sword, 2012:303],

[6] the first Biography of 'Muhammad' within Islamic sources is not until AD 833 [Ibn Isham, citing the earlier non-extant work of Ibn Ishaq, AD 765],

[7] the earliest maps do not show or place 'Mecca' until AD 900, of which Patricia Crone, found Greek trading documents with Ta'if [South-East of Mecca], Yathrib [later Medina], Kaybar, but never Mecca.​
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
Historical Criticism (I do not necessarily hold to this position, just citing it):

Wansbrough, Hawting, Patricia Crone, Andrew Rippin, Robert Hoyland, Yehuda Nevo, Luling, Gerd R Puin, Von Bothmer, Karl-Heinz Ohlig, Francois Deroche, Bowering, Conrad, Peters, Stein, Showmaker, [even Islamic Awareness, Islam site], Dan Brubaker, see the book Al Mushaf Al Sharif, Prof. Dr. Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, and Dr. Tayyar Altikulac.etc.

"... Islam, and the prophet's life, as we know it, was not derived from the 7th century, but evolved over a period of 200-300 years, and then redacted back on to the prophet's life, and compiled in the 9th century ..." [Humphreys 1991:71,83-89]

"... The Qur'an probably was not revealed to one man in 22 years, but likely evolved over a period of 50-100 years ..." [Rippin 1985:155, 1990:3,25,60; Lester 99:44-45; Wansbrough 1977:160-163]

The conclusion of a few is that the history of Islam, at least from the time of the Caliph Abd al-Malik (AD 685-705) and before, is a later fabrication/redaction [Cook 1983:65; Robinson 1996:47]

AD 705 - Jacob of Edessa

AD 765 - Ibn Ishaq, writes the first known 'siratul Rasu'allah' [life [history] of the 'prophet' of allah [Muhammad]]

AD 790 - Ma'il qur'an

AD 833 - Ibn Isham, rewrites Ibn Ishaq's account, altering it

AD 870 - al-Bukhari, compiles the first Sahih aHadith [sayings of Muhammad, using a chain of narration system], from 600,000 sayings, narrowed to 7,397 sayings in 9 Volumes, throwing out 98%.

AD 923 - al-Tabari, compiles the first great Tafsir [commentary on the qur'an]

Quranic Translations (of the Uthmanic rescension):

[1] Al-Hilali-Khan [official Saudi, Salafi],

[2] Yusuf-Ali,

[3] Shakir,

[4] Pickthal,

[5] Dawood,

[6] Sarwar,

[7] Sahih International, etc ...​

There are actually over 31 differing Arabic qur'ans (I did not say 31 translations), various lengths, changes in words, meanings, tenses, etc., and not merely translation of the 'Uthmanic' rescension (as above), but different from it.

aHadith's [sayings, chains of narration, of Muhammad] [Sahih [correct/accepted as valid]]:


Tafsir's [commentaries] [Ta'rikh, histories]:


Histories:


******* For original source data-mining only [becareful what you read, how often you read, how long you read, etc it is deadly poison, no joke, full hazmats on]:

The Uthmanic Qur'an, English translations - IslamAwakened

The Sunnah of Islam [aHadith, etc] - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Various Tafsirs - English Tafseer Of The Noble Quran

Ibn Ishaq's sira'tul rasulallah, the biographical life of Muhammad - https://ia801702.us.archive.org/25/...dGuillaume/The_Life_Of_Mohammed_Guillaume.pdf

Reliance of the Traveller, Official Sharia Code Book [Islamic Law] [the owner is removing these from the net, get them while you can] - Wayback Machine

Wayback Machine

Wayback Machine

The book of Jihad - https://ia800904.us.archive.org/30/...IbnNuhass/The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhass.pdf

An Index to the Qur'an, by Harun Yahya - https://ia802305.us.archive.org/23/items/AnIndexToTheQuran/kuran_fihristi_en.pdf

Edward William Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon - https://lanelexicondotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/lane-an-arabic-english-lexicon.pdf

The classical 'apologetical' of Al Kindi, a Christian response to Muslim - https://www3.nd.edu/~reynolds/nehc20624/al-kindi.pdf

23 Years by Ali Dashti - http://1400years.org/books/twentythreeyearsEN.pdf

Jesus warned of many false prophets, and even gave a location for some of them (and to beware of the desert):

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

There is also a video on "Sharia" (it's not 'Sharia Law', which means 'Law Law', it's just Sharia (which means Islamic Law)), but you('recensored)tube keeps pulling it. Look for it on other media sites. It is here - https://www.*****ute.com/video/fxmJKlNEONfR/

Also here - https://seed04.*****ute.com/rkfhgJJJh25e/fxmJKlNEONfR.mp4
 
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Crosstian

Baring the Cross
A question for Muslims, a study of what they have written in their own sources:

I understand that the Qur'an speaks of "Isa", as "the Messiah" [Qur'anic, "Masih", to the Jews, not to Muslims until the return of 'Isa]:

[Note to the reader/s: Qur'anic references are given by the [Uthamanic, Zaid ibn Thabit] English Translation Author, followed by the Title/Name of the Surah, followed by the Surah number, followed with colon [:], followed by the ayah [singular, ayat, [plural]], as thus [Yusuf Ali translation, Al 'Imran 3:45] [if the translation author is left out, any translation author will generally do, but there is a few differences in ayat numbering in the Uthmanic English between various tranlsations, therefore always double check the translation cited if refering and speaking with Muslims, be accurate, etc]

[a 'surah' is like what we would call a 'chapter' but is not really, as there is no real order to any given qur'an [since it is mixed into Mecci and Medini Surah, etc, and generally goes from the largest Surah [2] to the smallest [114, Uthmanic], so it is not quite accurate to say 'chapter', and the 'ayah' [or ayat] is like unto 'verse/s', but really means 'signs, miracles, etc', and some ayah that are next to another may have no contextual connection at all to the before or after ayah/ayat]

Yusuf-Ali translation

Al 'Imran 3:45

Al 'Imran 3:45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus(386), the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah(387).​

Al Nisa' 4:157,171,172

Al Nisa' 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him,(663) but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Al Nisa' 4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses(675) in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "[Three]" : desist (676) it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

Al Nisa' 4:172 Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah,(677) nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah.: those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself(678) to (answer).​

Al Ma'idah 5:19,75,78

Al Ma'idah 5:19 O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break(720) in (the series of) our messengers, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)": But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things.

Al Ma'idah 5:75 Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth.(783) They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them;(784) yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

Al Ma'idah 5:78 Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David(786) and of Jesus the son of Mary(787): because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.​

Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:30,31

Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:30 The Jews call ´Uzair a son(1283) of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate(1284) what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!(1285)

Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:31 They take their priests(1286) and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah,(1287) and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to HimView attachment 9931288) (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).​

From what I understand and have read of Islamic sources [Qur'an, aHadith [primarily Sahih], Tafsir and Tarikh, etc], the Qur'an [etal.] teaches that Adam sinned ultimately because of satan, and thus lost his garments of light in the Garden, and became naked [and attempted to hide behind the "leaves of Paradise" [Ta-Ha 20:121], and God had to clothe him [them, Adam/Eve], with the skins of the slain animals/sacrifical lamb as per:

al-Hilali-Khan translation

Al A'raf 7:26,27

Al A'raf 7:26 O Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc.) and as an adornment, and the raiment of righteousness, that is better. Such are among the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, that they may remember (i.e. leave falsehood and follow truth).

Al A'raf 7:27 O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitan (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents (Adam and Hawwa (Eve)) out of Paradise, stripping them of their raiments, to show them their private parts. Verily, he and Qabeeluhu (his soldiers from the jinns or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them. Verily, We made the Shayatin (devils) Auliya (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not.​

Ta-Ha 20:118-121

Ta-Ha 20:118 Verily, you have (a promise from Us) that you will never be hungry therein nor naked.

Ta-Ha 20:119 And you (will) suffer not from thirst therein nor from the suns heat.

Ta-Ha 20:120 Then Shaitan (Satan) whispered to him, saying : "O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that will never waste away?"

Ta-Ha 20:121 Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts appeared to them, and they began to stick on themselves the leaves from Paradise for their covering. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.​

This is what was given before in the Genesis 3:1-24 KJB, and in Genesis 3:15 KJB, God promised a "seed" to the woman, and would come of the woman [not of the man]. Eve, understood this promise of God, to send the "seed", as she thinks [*] her first child is that "seed", see Genesis 4:1 KJB, "gotten a man of the LORD".

[* mistakenly, but hopefully, as every daughter of Eve since then had awaited, see Sarah [Hebrews 11:11] and God's continued promise to Abraham in regards the "seed"; Genesis 9:9, 12:7, 13:15,16, 17:7,8,9,10, 21:12, 22:17,18; Exodus 32:13, 33:1; Joshua 24:3; 2 Samuel 7:12, 22:51; 2 Chronicle 20:7; Psalms 89:3,4,29,36, 105:6; Isaiah 41:8, 45:25, 65:9, 66:22; John 7:42; Acts 3:25, 7:5,6, 13:23; Romans 1:3, 4:13,16,18, 9:7; Galatians 3:16,19,29; 2 Timothy 2:8; Hebrews 2:16, 11:18; Revelation 12:7, etc. KJB]

... to be continued ...
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
... question continued ...

Thus it was God who instituted the "sacrifice" from "the foundation of the world" [Hebrews 9:26; Revelation 13:8, 17:8 KJB] and "the shedding of blood" [Hebrews 9:22 KJB] for sin/transgression of His Law.

This "sacrifice" was continued through time, until Christ.

al-Hilali-Khan translation

Al Ma-idah 5:27-33 [Cain and Abel continue the sacrifice]

Al Ma-idah 5:27 And (O Muhammad*) recite to them (the Jews) the story of the two sons of Adam (Habil (Abel) and Qabil (Cain)) in truth; when each offered a sacrifice (to Allah), it was accepted from the one but not from the other. The latter said to the former: "I will surely kill you." The former said: "Verily, Allah accepts only from those who are Al-Muttaqoon (the pious - see V.2:2)."

Al Ma-idah 5:28 "If you do stretch your hand against me to kill me, I shall never stretch my hand against you to kill you, for I fear Allah; the Lord of the Alameen (mankind, jinns, and all that exists)."

Al Ma-idah 5:29 "Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire, and that is the recompense of the Zalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers)."

Al Ma-idah 5:30 So the Nafs (self) of the other (latter one) encouraged him and made fairseeming to him the murder of his brother; he murdered him and became one of the losers.

Al Ma-idah 5:31 Then Allah sent a crow who scratched the ground to show him to hide the dead body of his brother. He (the murderer) said: "Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother?" Then he became one of those who regretted.

Al Ma-idah 5:32 Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!.

Al Ma-idah 5:33 The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.​

As Saffat 37:75-83, 101-107 [Noah and Abraham continue the sacrifice]

As Saffat 37:75 And indeed Nooh (Noah) invoked Us, and We are the Best of those who answer (the request).

As Saffat 37:76 And We rescued him and his family from the great distress (i.e. drowning),

As Saffat 37:77 And, his progeny, them We made the survivors (i.e. Shem, Ham and Japheth).

As Saffat 37:78 And left for him (a goodly remembrance) among generations to come in later times:

As Saffat 37:79 Salamun (peace) be upon Nooh (Noah) (from Us) among the Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!"

As Saffat 37:80 Verily, thus We reward the Muhsinoon (good-doers - see V.2:112).

As Saffat 37:81 Verily, he (Nooh (Noah) ) was one of Our believing slaves.

As Saffat 37:82 Then We drowned the other (disbelievers and polytheists, etc.).

As Saffat 37:83 And, verily, among those who followed his (Noohs (Noah)) way (Islamic Monotheism) was Ibrahim (Abraham).

As Saffat 37:101 So We gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy.

As Saffat 37:102 And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offer you in sacrifice to Allah), so look what you think!" He said: "O my father! Do that which you are commanded, Insha Allah (if Allah will), you shall find me of As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.)."

As Saffat 37:103 Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering);

As Saffat 37:104 And We called out to him: "O Abraham!

As Saffat 37:105 You have fulfilled the dream (vision)!" Verily! Thus do We reward the Muhsinoon (good-doers - see V.2:112).

As Saffat 37:106 Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial

As Saffat 37:107 And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice (i.e. - a ram);​

Al Baqarah 2:67-73 [Moses continues the sacrifice, see also the clean and unclean in Al An'am 6:146; Al An'am 6:146 And unto those who are Jews, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them the fat of the ox and the sheep except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone. Thus We recompensed them for their rebellion (committing crimes like murdering the Prophets, eating of Riba (usury), etc.). And verily, We are Truthful.]

Al Baqarah 2:67 And (remember) when Moosa (Moses) said to his people: "Verily, Allah commands you that you slaughter a cow." They said, "Do you make fun of us?" He said, "I take Allahs Refuge from being among Al-Jahiloon (the ignorants or the foolish)."

Al Baqarah 2:68 They said, "Call upon your Lord for us that He may make plain to us what it is!" He said, "He says, Verily, it is a cow neither too old nor too young, but (it is) between the two conditions, so do what you are commanded."

Al Baqarah 2:69 They said, "Call upon your Lord for us to make plain to us its colour." He said, "He says, It is a yellow cow, bright in its colour, pleasing to the beholders. "

Al Baqarah 2:70 They said, "Call upon your Lord for us to make plain to us what it is. Verily to us all cows are alike, And surely, if Allah wills, we will be guided."

Al Baqarah 2:71 He (Moosa (Moses)) said, "He says, It is a cow neither trained to till the soil nor water the fields, sound, having no other colour except bright yellow. " They said, "Now you have brought the truth." So they slaughtered it though they were near to not doing it.

Al Baqarah 2:72 And (remember) when you killed a man and fell into dispute among yourselves as to the crime. But Allah brought forth that which you were hiding.

Al Baqarah 2:73 So We said: "Strike him (the dead man) with a piece of it (the cow)." Thus Allah brings the dead to life and shows you His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) so that you may understand.​

Al 'Imran 3:183 [Elijah continues this on Mt. Carmel, also see notation in Yusuf-Ali *489]

Al 'Imran 3:183 Those (Jews) who said: "Verily, Allah has taken our promise not to believe in any Messenger unless he brings to us an offering which the fire (from heaven) shall devour." Say: "Verily, there came to you Messengers before me, with clear signs and even with what you speak of; why then did you kill them, if you are truthful?"​

Additional references, though in a different manner than the Bible [KJB]:

Al Ma'idah 5:2,3,95

Maryam 19:54 [see also Yusuf-Ali notation *2506]

As Saffat 37:101-107

Al Hajj 22:28,32-34,26,37

Al Fath 48:25

Al Kauthar 108:2​

Now coming more to the Question itself, which concerns something which Jesus, being the Prophet, said:

Matthew 24:15 KJB - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Mark 13:14 KJB - But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luke 21:20 KJB - And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.​

Jesus, thus referenced the prophet Daniel, in Daniel chapter 9, where it was written:

Daniel 9:24 KJB - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25 KJB - Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 KJB - And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 KJB - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.​

The Question is [to the Muslims], since Jesus quoted Daniel, and Daniel states that, "... he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ...", being tied to the work of the "Messiah", and the "sacrifices" go all the way back unto God and Adam/Eve in Genesis because of the sin of the first man, what would/did the "Messiah" do, according to prophecy from the days of Adam unto Christ's [Messiah] Jesus's day, that "cause[d]" the "sacrifice and oblation to cease"?

In other words, what does the official authentic Islamic sources teach in regards this prophecy of Daniel, that Jesus mentioned, referring to the "sacrifices" coming to an end at a very specific time, that were offered since the days of Adam's transgression?

A secondary question to any Muslim, would be, who has studied the prophecies of Daniel from Daniel 1-12 KJB, since Jesus explicitly stated that we are to read Daniel's prophecies and understand them?
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
[Part 01] Does Islam, accept/reject the written names from Adam to Seth, in their genealogical descendancy, along with their meanings? Here is the list, from Adam to Seth, as given in scripture [KJB] [as found given in Genesis 3-5; 1 Chronicles 1:1-4; Luke 3:33-38 KJB]:

Adam -- Eve -- [Abel -- Cain] -- Seth -- Enos -- Cainan -- Mahalaleel -- Jared -- Enoch -- Methuselah -- Lamech -- Noah -- Shem.

From my present sources, Islam, seems to accept the order given in Genesis, along with an 'Arabicized' spelling [though without the mention of "Eve" [simply given as 'Hawa/Hawwa' [meaning to help/support [as Genesis 2:20 KJB, "help meet for him"]; Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged 10 Volumes, PDF, pages 777, 1315, 1900], "Cain" [Qabil], and/or "Abel" [Habil] [both mentioned in Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged 10 Volumes, PDF, pages 1311-1320]:

According to Ibn Ishaq's siratul Rasu'allah [the first classical work of the biographical life of Muhammad] [circa AD 765], page 3 [sectioned], we read of the Islamic genealogical line [seen in reverse from above, here]:

"... [page 3] ... Sam, b. Nuh, b. Lamk, b. Mattushalakh, b. Akhnukh, ... b. Yard, b. Mahlil, b. Qaynan, b. Yanish, b. ****h, b. Adam (10).* ..."​

This is re-cited by Ibn Kathir, in his Abridged 10 Volume, Tafsir, PDF, page 1763-1764:

"... to the people of the earth after Adam. His name was Nuh bin Lamak bin Matushalakh bin Khanukh. ... he was the son of Barad bin Mahil, bin Qanin bin Yanish bin ****h bin Adam, ..."; "... This lineage is mentioned by Muhammad bin Ishaq and other Imams who document lineage. ..."​

[Part 02] Does Islam, accept/reject the written names of the Family of Jacob [whose name was changed to "Israel" [Genesis 32:28; 35:10 KJB] by JEHOVAH [YHVH]], along with their meanings? [There are at least 3 listings in Scripture KJB, Genesis 29-30 & 35 & 41; 1 Chronicles 2; Revelation 7 KJB]

Judah -- Reuben -- Gad -- Asher -- Naphtali -- Manasseh -- Simeon -- Levi [**] -- Issachar -- Zebulun -- Ephraim [*] -- Joseph -- Benjamin -- Dan [*] -- [Dinah ***]

From my present Islamic sources,

a Qur'an, Yusuf-Ali translation, Yusuf (Surah) 12 is named after "Joseph", see also Al An'am 6:84; Yusuf 12:4,7,8,9,10,11,17,21,22,(31),(42),46,(47),(50),51,(55),56,58,(62),69,76,77,80,84,85,87,(88),89,90, 94,99; Ghafir or Al Mu'min 40:34 "... Joseph ..."

Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, Abridged 10 Volumes, PDF, page 613, I find mentioned "Lavi" [Levi]:

"... The Children of Israel ... the offspring of Lavi (Levi) ..."

Ibid., page 614, 2400, I find "Yahudha" (Judah):

"... the offspring of Yahudha (Judah). ...", "... name was Yahudha (Judah). ..."​

a Qur'anic notation in Yusuf Ali's translation, notation 1752 on Yusuf 12:80, I find mentioned

"Reuben", "Simeon", "Levi", "Judah" & "Benjamin": "... *1752 ... The eldest brother was Reuben. ... Judah, one of the elder brothers, being the fourth son, after Reuben, Simeon, and Levi, and of the same mother as these. It was Judah who stood surety to Jacob for Benjamin (Gen. 43:9) ..."​

Let's consider the meanings of these names, beginning with JEHOVAH Elohiym:

JEHOVAH [God]

Adam - 'red' [through earth/clay], 'the living soul', unique son of God

Eve - 'life giver', 'the mother of all living'

Abel - 'breath', 'brief', 'sorrow', 'keeper of the sheep/flock'

Cain - 'Lance/Spear', 'possession', 'tiller of the ground', 'one who pierces the ground/earth'

Seth - 'compensation', 'setting, in the place of [Abel], appointed'

Enos - 'man', 'mortal'

Cainan - 'possession', 'come to obtain'

Mahalaleel - 'praise of God [El, Elohiym]'

Jared - 'descent', 'coming down'

Enoch - 'dedicated', 'who walked with God, and was not, for God took him'

Methuselah - 'his death shall bring', 'man of the dart'

Lamech - 'powerful', 'strength'

Noah - 'comfort', 'giving of rest/peace'

Shem - 'name', 'good name' [and the character thereof].​

Let's read them together:

JEHOVAH [God], through the 'red' of the beloved unique son, the living soul [Adam], gave life [Eve], by being pierced [Cain], and in the place of [Seth] mourning/sorrow [Abel], for mortal man [Enos], instead obtained [Cainan], the praise of God [Mahalaleel], by the descending/coming down in humility [Jared], being dedicated to/walking with God, and was later not found on earth, for God took up [Enoch], for whose death would bring [Methuselah], strength/vital force [Lamech], and comfort/rest/peace [Noah], so declaring the Good Name, the Character [Shem] [of JEHOVAH].​

Providence [double entendre]. Those names read just like Revelation 12:1-5 KJB, written some 1400 years before AD 90.

Now to the "children of Israel [Jacob]", which were named, under inspiration by JEHOVAH. First I will cite the two not listed in Revelation 7, do to other specific reasons:

Ephraim - 'double ash heap', 'I shall be doubly fruitful' - see Genesis 41:52 KJB

Dan - 'a judge', 'judge' - see Genesis 30:6 KJB​

In Revelaton 7:5-8 KJB, citing a listing of the names of the 12 tribes of Israel in a specific order, we read:

Revelation 7:4 KJB - And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Revelation 7:5 KJB - Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 7:6 KJB - Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 7:7 KJB - Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 7:8 KJB - Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.​

Let's see those names and their meanings together:

Judah - 'I will praise the LORD [JEHOVAH]' - see Genesis 29:35 KJB

Reuben - 'Behold, a son', 'he has looked upon me' - see Genesis 29:32 KJB

Gad - 'Given good fortune', a 'troop' - see Genesis 30:11 KJB

Asher - 'Happy', 'Happy am I' - see Genesis 30:13 KJB

Naphtali - 'Wrestling', 'My wrestling' - see Genesis 30:8 KJB

Manasseh - 'Causing to forget', 'Making me to forget' - see Genesis 41:51 KJB

Simeon - 'Heard', 'God hears me' - see Genesis 29:33 KJB

Levi - 'Joined to', 'attached me' - see Genesis 29:34 KJB

Issachar - 'There is a recompense', 'he has purchased me' - see Genesis 30:18 KJB

Zebulun - 'Exalted', 'a dwelling' - see Genesis 30:20 KJB

Joseph - 'JEHOVAH has added', 'JEHOVAH will add to me' - see Genesis 30:24 KJB

Benjamin - 'Son of the right hand', 'Son of his right hand' - see Genesis 35:17,18 KJB​

Therefore, let's read them together [I will give two forms]:

I will praise the LORD [JEHOVAH] [Judah], for Behold, a Son!, (for) He looked upon me [Reuben], (and) granted a troop, very much good fortune [Gad]. Happy am I [Asher] (therfore), (because) my wrestling [Naphtali], God is making me to forget [Manasseh]. God hears me [Simeon] (and) is joined/attached unto me [Levi]. He has purchased/redeemed me [Issachar] a dwelling and lifted me up [Zebulun], (for) JEHOVAH has added to me [Joseph] (as surety), the Son of His right hand [Benjamin].​

or alternatively

Now, will I praise the LORD [JEHOVAH] [Judah]! Behold, a Son!; (for) surely the LORD looked upon my affliction [Reuben] (and) granted His graceful good fortune [Gad] (therefore) Happy/Rejoicing am I [Asher], (even though) with great wrestlings have I wrestled [Naphtali] (but) God is making me to forget all my toils [Manasseh] (for) the LORD has heard me/my (crying) [Simeon]. He is attached and/or ever with me (I am with you, He says to me) [Levi], (for) He has redeemeed/purchased me [Issachar], lifting me up, that He may dwell with me [Zebulun], (and so) the LORD (to demonstrate this godly love) added/gave to me [Joseph], the Son of His right hand [Benjamin].

Providence. The same, yesterday, to day and for ever. The same message, the same word.

Luke 24:27 KJB - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he [Jesus] expounded unto them [disciples] in all the scriptures [Old Testament, Genesis to Malachi] the things concerning himself.​

Does Islam accept these written names and their Hebrew meanings?
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
There are a lot of great ( and respectful ) questions listed here. The question whether or not there is/was a single Qur'an comes up occasionally; hopefully some of the Muslim members will offer their evidence in support of a single authoritative Qur'an.

In the mean time, when comparing translations, here are two tools that I find helpful.

Quran.com and Corpus.Quran.com ( I have no affiliation to either site, BTW ) Both of these sites make it easy to look at each word in arabic, analyze its translation, and identify parts of the english translation which come from Hadith or some other source.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
what would/did the "Messiah" do, according to prophecy from the days of Adam unto Christ's [Messiah] Jesus's day, that "cause[d]" the "sacrifice and oblation to cease"?
Quran 22:36-37 We have decreed the animal offerings for you among the rites of God. Neither their meat nor their blood reaches God, but it is your reverence that reaches Him.

God doesn't require sacrifices for atonement in Islam; it is done for blessed food (Halal <= Kosher).

It is Yeshua's Gospel that taught us salvation (Quran 3:55), and it's by repentance that we're atoned for.

Whereas early Rabbinic ideas within the Second Temple period believed sanctification for blessed food could only come from a temple; Daniel points out that was not always the case in they follow a new God of buildings (Daniel 11:38), this is what was removed at the 2nd Temple destruction (Daniel 9:26-27).

Islam corrects that God sanctifies the offerings, by our declarations to follow the Oneness of God (Islam); not by some sanctification of a building or that God needs blood.
that were offered since the days of Adam's transgression?
In the Quran it says from the time of Adam there are going to be corrupters in the Land, who don't respect the things of God, repeatedly referring to the hypocrites who don't study the message.

Quran 2:30-31 And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." And He taught Adam...

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Limo

Active Member
'Apologiz-ing' (1 Pet. 3:15) to Muslims and Islam

I have studied in the religion of Islam, and have over 1,000 pages of material on various subjects, sources, etc for those desiring it, and I will share some later, and will in this thread discuss what is called "qur'an", but there is not a single such book, but multiple, with varying changes, alterations, meanings, all in arabic.

An overview (brief) History of Muhammad (Abu al Qasim [father of Qasim]) and Islam:

AD 570 - Muhammad born [supposedly, ancestry really unknown, no one knows the father of Muhammad for sure]

AD 610 - Muhammad [40 years old] met 'Jibril' in the Hira cave

AD 610 - 622 - Received 'Meccan' verses

AD 621 - Muhammad has the 'Mi'raj' to the 7 Heavens [5 Prayers/As-Salat]

AD 622 - 'Hijra' [Migration] from Mecca to Medina

AD 622 - 632 - Received 'Medinan' verses

AD 624 - There were no mosques prior to AD 624, Qibla [direction of prayer changed, from Jerusalem to Mecca [Al-Masjid-Al-Haram]], specifically to the Ka'bah [building and the blackstone [god] thereof], Qur'an surah 2 [Al-Baqarah], ayah 142-150

Qur'an - Al-Hilali-Khan; Surah 2:142-150 -

"… [v. 142] The fools among the people (pagans, hypocrites, and Jews) will say, "What has turned them (Muslims) from the Qiblah [prayer direction (towards Jerusalem)] to which they used to face in prayer." Say, (O Muhammad) "To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to the Straight Way." [v. 143] Thus We have made you [true Muslims – real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a just (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind [1] and the Messenger (Muhammad) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of Kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind. [v. 144] Verily! We have see the turning of your (Muhammad's) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (at Makkah [Mecca]). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scripture (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bah at Makkah [Mecca] in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do. [v. 145] And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) all of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction). And they will not follow each other's Qiblah (prayer direction). Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have received of knowledge (from Allah), then indeed you will be one of the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers). [v.146] Those to whom We gave the Scripture (Jews and Christians) recognise him (Muhammad or the Ka'bah at Makkah [Mecca]) as they recognise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it – [i.e. the qualities pf Muhammad which are written in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] [v.147] (This is) the truth from your Lord. So be you not one of those who doubt. [v.148] For every nation there is a direction to which they face (in their prayers). So hasten towards all that is good. Wheresoever you may be, Allah will bring you together (on the Day of Resurrection). Truly, Allah is Able to do all things. [v.149] And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (at Makkah [Mecca]), that is indeed the truth from your Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. [v.150] And from wheresoever you start forth (your prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (at Makkah [Mecca]), and wheresoever you are, turn your faces towards it (when you pray) so that men may have no argument against you except those of them that are wrong-doers, so fear them not, but fear Me! – And so that I may complete My Blessings on you and that you may be guided. ..."​

AD 630 - Conquered Mecca 'peacefully', in the area of the Hijaz [Roman controlled province]

AD 632 - Died horribly of accumulated effects of poisoning [from the battle of Kaybar], there was as yet no official written or totally compiled [into one source] qur'an.

AD 632 - 634 - Abu Bakr [Father of Aishah, favorite wife of Muhammad], Rightly Guided Caliph of Muhammad, takes over

AD 634 - 644 - Umar [daughter Hafsa], starts conquering other cities - Bozrah, Baghdad, Damascus, Jerusalem, Cairo

AD 642 - The 5 Great cities of the Levant - Basra, Baghdad, Damascus, Jerusalem, Cairo, are now under Arab [not Muslim] control. Also Alexandria, Aden, Merat and Nishapur.

AD 644 - 656 - Uthman [Othman], he has the various qur'anic materials [like Hafsa's, daughter of Umar] compiled into one official [Zaid ibn Thabit, secretary of Muhammad, re-write and correct, and if any difficulty, use the Qur'aishi language, language of Muhammad's Ummah people, along with three other men], and burns all of the rest which differed, or were lost, had additions, etc.

4 main Uthman copies were made,

[1] Medina,

[2] Basra,

[3] Baghdad,

[4] Damascus,​

of which two are supposed to be still around, the Topkapi Mushaf [in Turkey, Istanbul, mid - 8th century] and the Sammarqand Mushaf [Tashkent early - mid 8th century], but they are not that old, but later [Umayyad period, 8th century], and contain errors, and are only half manuscripts.

Others are the:

[1] Ma'il [Britain, Hijazi text],

[2] Petropolitanus [Paris, see Francois Deroche 2009:172-177],

[3] Houseini [al-Mashhad al-Husayni] Cairo, Egypt, see Tayyar Altikulac Al Mushaf Al Sharif 2007:36, footnote 14a],

[4] San'aa manuscripts, see the book Al Mushaf Al Sharif, Prof. Dr. Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, and Dr. Tayyar Altikulac.​

AD 650 - Official Uthmanic recension of the various qur'ans compiled into one, all others destroyed

AD 656 - 661 - Ali [Adopted son of Muhammad], whom the Shia adhere to as the rightful heir

AD 661 - North Africa controlled by the Arabs, and goes into Spain, then to the east, in India

AD 685 - 705 - Abd al'Malik, comes to power

AD 685 - coins with Muhammad's name on them, no other record of this name before this date, that is known

AD 691 - dome of the rock,:

[1] first Arab inscription referencing 'Muhammad' [Volker Popp-Ohlig & Puin, 2010:53];

[2] the first reference to 'Muslims' is in the 690's [Chronicle of John of Niku' – 1602],

[3] the first Arab reference to 'Muslim' if just prior to AD 749 [Nevo & Koren, 2003:234], otherwise they re simply 'Saracen' [Arab], 'Hagarene', 'Ishmaelite', 'Maghraye', 'Muhajiroun' [in exodus, nomad];

[4] the first reference to 'Islam' is not until AD 691 [Dome of the Rock] [Volker Popp-Ohlig & Puin, 2010:71],

[5] the first reference to 'Mecca' is not until AD 741 [Patricia Crone 1987:134-136 [found in Apocalypse of pseudo-Methodius Continuatio Byzantia Arabica, early reign of caliph Hisham]; Hoyland 1997:426; Tom Holland, In the Shadow of the Sword, 2012:303],

[6] the first Biography of 'Muhammad' within Islamic sources is not until AD 833 [Ibn Isham, citing the earlier non-extant work of Ibn Ishaq, AD 765],

[7] the earliest maps do not show or place 'Mecca' until AD 900, of which Patricia Crone, found Greek trading documents with Ta'if [South-East of Mecca], Yathrib [later Medina], Kaybar, but never Mecca.​
I didn't find any valuble question to answer in this copy-past from all black prpoganda and islmfubic sources.

All your sayings starts with "first time" is severely wrong historically.

The baseline is Arabic pensuia was out of interest of any Roman, Persian, and whatsoever historian or interest at the time of Prophet Mohamed peace be up on him. So, any lier call himself knowing doesn't use certified Islamic sources is just telling rabesh.

Just an example, anyone says that father of prophet mohamed is unknown is just an ignorant not only with Islam but with Arabs tradition.
Prophet Mohamed is from the highest honored house in all Arabs.

If you're serious just ask direct question after cleaning up all that mess.
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
...Just an example, anyone says that father of prophet mohamed is unknown is just an ignorant not only with Islam but with Arabs tradition. ...
Having personally studied, no one knows who the father of Muhammad really is, not even genealogically, not among Islamic scholars, Islamic Genealogists, or secular, or other. They simply speculate and guess without evidence. Citations as such are easy to find even from top Islamic genealogists (you may look for yourself). You will also find no such answer in "qur'an", nor "sahih hadith", nor Tafsir. There is also the matter of the 4 year discrepancy in "birth", and the Islamic "biology" of 4 year pregnancies to cover the facts of the matter. Thank you for your non-answer, as I noticed you also didn't answer either.
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
There are a lot of great ( and respectful ) questions listed here. ...
Thanks.

The Most Awful Name in the sight of Allah, is a man that calls himself “King of Kings”:

Muhammad said that the most awful name in “Allah's” sight on the Day of Resurrection will be that of a “man” who calls himself, “King of kings”. So “Allah” will hate the man called “King of kings”, whom the Christians know as Christ Jesus:

Isaiah 54:5 KJB - For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Jeremiah 23:5 KJB - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Jeremiah 23:6 KJB - In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Acts 10:36 KJB - The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)

1 Timothy 6:15 KJB - Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Revelation 1:5 KJB - And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 17:14 KJB - These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16 KJB - And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.​

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 224 -

“... Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, “The most awful name in Allah's sight on the Day of Resurrection, will be (that of) a man calling himself Malik Al-Amlak (the king of kings).”

Sufyan said, “Somebody else (i.e. other than Abu Az-Zinad, a sub-narrator) says: What is meant by 'The king of kings' is 'Shahan Shah.,” ...”​

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 225 -

“... Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “The most awful (meanest) name in Allah's sight.” Sufyan said more than once, “The most awful (meanest) name in Allah's sight is (that of) a man calling himself king of kings.” Sufyan said, “Somebody else (i.e. other than Abu Az-Zinad, a sub-narrator) says: What is meant by 'The king of kings' is 'Shahan Shah.,” ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 025, Chapter 4, Number 5338 -

“... Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The vilest name in Allah's sight is Malik al-Amidh (King of Kings). The narration transmitted on the authority of Shaiba (contains these words): There is no king but Allah, the Exalted and Glorious. Sufyan said: Similarly, the word Shahinshah (is also the vilest appellation). Ahmad b. Hanbal said: I asked Abu 'Amr about the meaning of Akhna. He said: The vilest. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 025, Chapter 4, Number 5339 -

“... Abu Huraira reported from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) so many ahadith and one of them was this that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The most wretched person in the sight of Allah on the Day of Resurrection and the worst person and target of His wrath would of the person who is called Malik al-Amlak (the King of Kings) for there is no king but Allah. ...”​

Sunan Abu Dawud, Volume 5, Book 40, Chapter 62, Number 4961 -

“... 4961. It was narrated from Sufyan bin 'Uyainah, from Abu Az-Zinnad, from Al-A'raj, from Abu Huraurah, who conveyed it from the Prophet; he said: “The most despised of names to Allah, on the Day of Resurrection, will be a man who is called; Malik Al-Amlāk (king of kings).” (Sahih)

Abu Dawud said: Shu'aib reported it from Abu Hamzah, from Abu Az-Zinnad, with his chain, and he said: “the most obscene name” ...”​

Jami at-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Book 41, Chapter 65, Number 2837 -

“... 2837. Al-A'raj narrated that Abu Hurairah conveyed to him that the Prophet said: “The most despicable (Akhna') name to Allah on the Day of Judgement is that of a man named King of Kings. (Malikil-Amlāk)” (Sahih)

Sufyan said: “(Like) 'Shahani Shah (Shah of Shah's).” And the meaning of Akhna' is most despicable. And this Hadith is Hasan Sahih. ...”

“... Comments: Akhna (most disgraced) according to some it means 'ugliest'. The names that denote pride, insolence and arrogance; it is disliked to be named such names, like, ruler of the rulers, king of the kings, etc, because complete sovereignty is Allah's. ...”​

Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, A compilation of the Abridged Tafsir Ibn Kathir Volumes 1-10, in the English Language with Arabic Verses. -

“... Also, the Two Sahihs recorded Abu Hurayrah saying that the Prophet said, (The most despicable name to Allah is a person who calls himself the king of kings, while there are no owners except Allah. ) ...”​

Tafsir of al-Qurtubi on Surah Al Fatiha 1:4 -

[Page 121] “... The recitation of malik is established and it has meanings which mālik does not have, and Allah knows best.

It is said that it is not permitted to give anyone this name nor to call other than Allah Almighty by it. Al-Bukhari and Muslim related from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “Allah will seize the earth on the Day of Rising and roll up heaven in His right hand and then say, 'I am the King. Where are the kings of the earth?'” Abu Hurarya also reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “The most abased man in the sight of Allah is a man who calls himself, 'the King of Kings.'” Muslim added, “There is no king except Allah Almighty.”: Sufyan said, “Like the Persian term Shahanshah.” The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “The man with whom Allah will be angriest is a man who calls himself, 'the king of kings.' There is no king except Allah.” Ibn al-Hassar said, “It is like that with 'King of the Day of Judgment' and 'Master of [page 121-122] the Kingdom.'” There is no disagreement that this title is forbidden to all creatures in the same way that 'the King of kings' is. ...”​
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
If you're serious just ask direct question after cleaning up all that mess.

Thank you for the very kind offer: I don't know about the author OP, but I'm looking for reliable information/evidence that supports a single authoritative Qur'an. I would appreciate a little guidance. Do you have any recommendations for websites where I can start reading? Thank you in advance.
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
Thank you for the very kind offer: I don't know about the author OP, but I'm looking for reliable information/evidence that supports a single authoritative Qur'an. I would appreciate a little guidance. Do you have any recommendations for websites where I can start reading? Thank you in advance.
[01] "31 Different Arabic Qur'ans? Shouldn't there be just one? Colliding Worldviews" (Jay Smith)


[02] "Ex-Muslim Sam Solomon- Doctrines Of Islam Are In Absolute Contradiction To The Gospel. Bible Is True" (Sam Solomon


[03] "New Evidence the Koran is Corrupted" (Jay Smith)


[04] "Women in Islam" (Usama K Dakdok; Baptist)


[05] "This is Actually Happening to Australia... (2018-2019)" (testimonial of a woman)

 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
[01] "31 Different Arabic Qur'ans? Shouldn't there be just one? Colliding Worldviews" (Jay Smith)


[02] "Ex-Muslim Sam Solomon- Doctrines Of Islam Are In Absolute Contradiction To The Gospel. Bible Is True" (Sam Solomon


[03] "New Evidence the Koran is Corrupted" (Jay Smith)


[04] "Women in Islam" (Usama K Dakdok; Baptist)


[05] "This is Actually Happening to Australia... (2018-2019)" (testimonial of a woman)


Why is your source the fraudulent Evangelical apologist Jay Smith?

Every Muslim knows about Qira'at, Qira'at does not equate to a "different Qur'an", there's only One, this is purely a factual thing. The many Hadith reaffirm that these schools of recitations are literal teacher-to-student spoken tradition that the Prophet himself taught. There is no big conspiracy here.
Aside from that, all of Jay Smith's apparent "corruptions" are precisely always concerning handwriting via elongated letters.
It's hard to compare to English in this regard because most English letters are clearly vertical whereas the Arabic alphabet (and the way in which letters join) is horizontal. I'm sure you'd get what I mean there.
It makes me cringe to see people getting a hard-on by handwriting but not what the handwriting itself says.
As for the dating of the Qur'an itself, there is no evidence that points towards the Qur'an belonging to any time other than what it is traditionally said to be (culminating around 631 CE), there is no reason either to suspect anything other than it coming from the Prophet's lifetime. I've seen a lot of foolish attempts to weaken that but nothing that actually holds any substance to the traditional view. There were a lot of manuscripts recorded in his lifetime, it's that we haven't uncovered enough of the earliest possible manuscripts yet, but I'm confident history will surprise us down the road. Our earliest Pre-Uthman manuscript is a very positive find and shows no signs of meddling.
 
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Wasp

Active Member
Thanks.

The Most Awful Name in the sight of Allah, is a man that calls himself “King of Kings”:

Muhammad said that the most awful name in “Allah's” sight on the Day of Resurrection will be that of a “man” who calls himself, “King of kings”. So “Allah” will hate the man called “King of kings”, whom the Christians know as Christ Jesus:

Isaiah 54:5 KJB - For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Jeremiah 23:5 KJB - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Jeremiah 23:6 KJB - In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Acts 10:36 KJB - The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)

1 Timothy 6:15 KJB - Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Revelation 1:5 KJB - And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 17:14 KJB - These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16 KJB - And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.​

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 224 -

“... Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, “The most awful name in Allah's sight on the Day of Resurrection, will be (that of) a man calling himself Malik Al-Amlak (the king of kings).”

Sufyan said, “Somebody else (i.e. other than Abu Az-Zinad, a sub-narrator) says: What is meant by 'The king of kings' is 'Shahan Shah.,” ...”​

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 225 -

“... Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “The most awful (meanest) name in Allah's sight.” Sufyan said more than once, “The most awful (meanest) name in Allah's sight is (that of) a man calling himself king of kings.” Sufyan said, “Somebody else (i.e. other than Abu Az-Zinad, a sub-narrator) says: What is meant by 'The king of kings' is 'Shahan Shah.,” ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 025, Chapter 4, Number 5338 -

“... Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The vilest name in Allah's sight is Malik al-Amidh (King of Kings). The narration transmitted on the authority of Shaiba (contains these words): There is no king but Allah, the Exalted and Glorious. Sufyan said: Similarly, the word Shahinshah (is also the vilest appellation). Ahmad b. Hanbal said: I asked Abu 'Amr about the meaning of Akhna. He said: The vilest. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 025, Chapter 4, Number 5339 -

“... Abu Huraira reported from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) so many ahadith and one of them was this that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The most wretched person in the sight of Allah on the Day of Resurrection and the worst person and target of His wrath would of the person who is called Malik al-Amlak (the King of Kings) for there is no king but Allah. ...”​

Sunan Abu Dawud, Volume 5, Book 40, Chapter 62, Number 4961 -

“... 4961. It was narrated from Sufyan bin 'Uyainah, from Abu Az-Zinnad, from Al-A'raj, from Abu Huraurah, who conveyed it from the Prophet; he said: “The most despised of names to Allah, on the Day of Resurrection, will be a man who is called; Malik Al-Amlāk (king of kings).” (Sahih)

Abu Dawud said: Shu'aib reported it from Abu Hamzah, from Abu Az-Zinnad, with his chain, and he said: “the most obscene name” ...”​

Jami at-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Book 41, Chapter 65, Number 2837 -

“... 2837. Al-A'raj narrated that Abu Hurairah conveyed to him that the Prophet said: “The most despicable (Akhna') name to Allah on the Day of Judgement is that of a man named King of Kings. (Malikil-Amlāk)” (Sahih)

Sufyan said: “(Like) 'Shahani Shah (Shah of Shah's).” And the meaning of Akhna' is most despicable. And this Hadith is Hasan Sahih. ...”

“... Comments: Akhna (most disgraced) according to some it means 'ugliest'. The names that denote pride, insolence and arrogance; it is disliked to be named such names, like, ruler of the rulers, king of the kings, etc, because complete sovereignty is Allah's. ...”​

Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, A compilation of the Abridged Tafsir Ibn Kathir Volumes 1-10, in the English Language with Arabic Verses. -

“... Also, the Two Sahihs recorded Abu Hurayrah saying that the Prophet said, (The most despicable name to Allah is a person who calls himself the king of kings, while there are no owners except Allah. ) ...”​

Tafsir of al-Qurtubi on Surah Al Fatiha 1:4 -

[Page 121] “... The recitation of malik is established and it has meanings which mālik does not have, and Allah knows best.

It is said that it is not permitted to give anyone this name nor to call other than Allah Almighty by it. Al-Bukhari and Muslim related from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “Allah will seize the earth on the Day of Rising and roll up heaven in His right hand and then say, 'I am the King. Where are the kings of the earth?'” Abu Hurarya also reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “The most abased man in the sight of Allah is a man who calls himself, 'the King of Kings.'” Muslim added, “There is no king except Allah Almighty.”: Sufyan said, “Like the Persian term Shahanshah.” The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “The man with whom Allah will be angriest is a man who calls himself, 'the king of kings.' There is no king except Allah.” Ibn al-Hassar said, “It is like that with 'King of the Day of Judgment' and 'Master of [page 121-122] the Kingdom.'” There is no disagreement that this title is forbidden to all creatures in the same way that 'the King of kings' is. ...”​
Without taking part here on any other of your posts in this thread, what is the point you're making here with this one?
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
Without taking part here on any other of your posts in this thread, what is the point you're making here with this one?
"Qu'ran" is in total contradiction to the Bible (KJB). It (Q) is, in fact, antagonistic to Bible (KJB), and to the real Jesus Christ of history, as opposed to the imaginary theological argument "Isa ('Jesus')" of "Q" which never existed at all. According to scripture, Jesus Christ is King of Kings. According to "Q", not so.
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
Why is your source ...
I didn't say he was my source. Who said that? Also, do not mistake one thing for another. Thank you:

[06] "History of Islam with William Federer" (William J Federer; I think "Catholic")


[07] "Revealing Islam with Usama Dakdok" (Usama K Dakdok)


[08] "Is the Quran Infallible" (Usama K Dakdok)


[09] "Islam Exposed a.k.a. "The Basics of islam" by Robert Spencer 13 talking points" (Robert Spencer; Melkite (Greek) Catholic)


[10] "Must Watch: 1400 Years of Islamic History in a Few Minutes" (Brigitte Gabriel)

 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
...Every Muslim knows about Qira'at, Qira'at does not equate to a "different Qur'an",...
Please do not think to merely brush this aside by too narrow a focus.

Ubayy was the best of reciters and teachers of the Qur'an. His Qur'an has material in it that is not in the standard Qur'an, and Aisha recollected material which is not in the standard accepted Qur'an.

Surah 33:6 (Yusuf-Ali translation) -

“... The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. ...”​

Footnote 3674 of the Yusuf-Ali translation to Surah 33:6 says -

“... In some Qiraahs, like that of Ubayy ibn Ka'ab, occcur also the words "and he is a father of them", ...”​

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 521 -

“... Narrated Masriq: 'Abdullah bin 'Amr mentioned 'Abdullah bin Masud' said, “I shall ever love that man, I heard the Prophet saying, “Take (learn) the Qur'an from four: 'Abdullah bin Masud, Salim, Mu'adh and Ubai bin Ka'b.'” ...”​

Ibn Sa'd, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir Volume 2, page. 444 -

“... The people have been guilty of deceit in the reading of the Qur'an. I like it better to read according to the recitation of him [Muhammad] who I love more than that of Zayd Ibn Thabit. ...”

In Surah 2:238, it is written:​

Surah 2:238 (Pickthall translation) -

“... Be guardians of your prayers, and of the midmost prayer, and stand up with
devotion to Allah. ...”​

Surah 2:238 (Shakir translation) -

“... Attend constantly to prayers and to the middle prayer and stand up truly
obedient to Allah. ...”​

Yet, Aisha, the favourite wife of Muhammad, even the mother of the faithful said (Sahih):​

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Chapter 78, Number 1316 -

“... Abu Yunus, the freed slave of 'A'isha said: 'A'isha ordered me to transcribe a copy of the Qur'an for her and said: When you reach this verse:" Guard the prayers and the middle prayer" (ii. 238), inform me; so when I reached it, I informed her and she gave me dictation (like this): Guard the prayers and the middle prayer and the afternoon prayer, and stand up truly obedient to Allah. 'A'isha said: This is how I have heard from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Chapter 78, Number 1317 -

“... Al-Bara' b. 'Azib reported: This verse was revealed (in this way): “Guard the prayers and the 'Asr prayer.” We recited it (in this very way) so long as Allah desired. Allah, then, abrogated it and it was revealed: “Guard the prayers, and the middle prayer.” A person who was sitting with Shaqiq (one of the narrators in the chain of transmitters) said: Now it implies the 'Asr prayer. Upon this al-Bara' said: I have already informed you how this (verse) was revealed and how Allah abrogated it, and Allah knows best. Imam Muslim said: Ashja'i narrated it from Sufyan al-Thauri, who narrated it from al-Aswad b. Qais, who narrated it from 'Uqba, who narrated it from al-Bara' b. 'Azib who said: We recited with the Prophet (may peace be upon him) (the above-mentioned verse like this, i. e. instead of Salat al- Wusta, Salat al-'Asr) for a certain period. as It has been mentioned (in the above-quoted hadith). ...”​

Jami at-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Book 44, Chapter 2, Number 2982 -

“... (29). 2982 Abu Yunus, the freed slave of 'Aishah, said: “Aishah ordered me to write a Mushaf for her, and she said: 'When you get to this Ayah then tell me: Guard strictly (the five obligatory) prayers, and the middle Salat.[1] So when I reached it, I told her and she dictated to me: 'Guard strictly (the five obligatory) prayers, and the middle Salat, and Salat Al-'Asr. And stand before Allah with obedience.' She said: 'I heard that from the Messenger of Allah.” (Sahih)

There is something on this topic from Hafsah.

[Abu 'Eisa said:] This Hadith is Hasan Sahih. ...”

“... [1] Al-Baqarah 2:238. ...”​

Zayd Ibn Thabit is basically the author/compiler of the modern Qur'an, which differs [called deceptive] from the one which Ibn Sa'd liked.

Jami At-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Book 44, Chapter 9, Number 3104 -

“... Comments:

When the Prophet had left the world, and the noble Companions had to fight on various fronts due to various reasons, many well-versed reciters of the Qur'an began to fall victims of various battles and were martyred. It was then realised that the Qur'an should be gathered in the form of a proper textual book. The Qur'an was already written on different things and also the people had memorised it. The noble Companions were strict followers of the Prophet and they had the strongest enthusiasts passion of following the footsteps of the Messenger of Allah, they would never approve of any kind of disobedience to the example of the Messenger of Allah. As the Prophet did not gather the whole Qur'an in form of a proper textual book, so Abu Bakr was reluctant to do so. But when he became certain that the Prophet did not do so because of a certain reason – as he would dictate to write various Revealed Verses at different places in different Surah, and there was also the possibility of abrogation of the Verses – after the demise of the Messenger of Allah this reason had come to an end. So the current circumstances and the common benefits of the Ummah demanded the preparation of the Qur'an in the form of a proper textual book; finally Abu Bakr agreed to perform the duty.

“... (19). 3104. Az-Zuhri narrated from Anas who said: “Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman came
to 'Uthman, at the time when the people of Ash-Sham and the people of Al-Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminiyah and Adharbijan.

Hudhaifah saw their (the people of Ash-Sham and Al-Iraq) different forms of recitation of the Qur'an. So he said to 'Uthman: 'O Commander of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book as the Jews and the Christians did before them.' So he ('Uthman) sent a message to Hafsah (saying): 'Send us the manuscripts so that we may copy them in the Musahif then we shall return it to you.' So Hafsah sent the manuscripts to 'Uthman bin 'Affan. 'Uthman then sent order for Zaid bin Thabit, Sa'eed bin Al-'As, 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham, and 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair to copy the manuscripts in the Musahif. 'Uthman said to the three Quraish men: 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the (recitation dialect of the) Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish for it was revealed in their tongue.' So when they had copied the manuscripts in the Musahif, 'Uthman sent one Mushaf from those Musahif that they had copied to every province.”

Az-Zuhri said: “Kharijah bin Zaid [bin Thabit] narrated to me that Zaid bin Thabit said: 'I missed an Ayah of Surah Al-Ahzab that I heard the Messenger of Allah reciting: Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah, of them, some have fulfilled their obligations, and some of them are still waiting. – so I searched for it and found it with Khuzaimah bin Thabit, or Abu Khuzaimah, so I put it in its Surah.'”

Az-Zuhri said: “They differed then with At-Tabut and At-Tabuh. The Quraish said: At-Tabut while Zaid said: At-Tabuh. Their disagreement was brought to 'Uthman, so he said: 'Write it as At-Tabut, for it was revealed in the tongue of the Quraish.'”

Az-Zuhri said: “'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah bin 'Utbah informed me that 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud disliked Zaid bin Thabit copying the Musahif, and he said: 'O you Muslim people! Avoid copying the Mushaf and recitation of this man. By Allah! When I accepted Islam he was but in the loins of a disbelieving man' – meaning Zaid bin Thabit – and it was regarding this that 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud said: 'O people of Al-Iraq! Keep the Musahif that are with you, and conceal them. For indeed Allah said: And whoever conceals something, he shall come with what he concealed on the Day of Judgement. So meet Allah with the Musahif.'”

Az-Zuhri said: “It was conveyed to me that some men among the most virtuous of the companions of the Messenger of Allah disliked that view of Ibn Mas'ud.” (Sahih)

[Abu Eisa said:] This Hadith is Hasan Sahih, it is the narration of Az-Zuhri, and we do not know of it except as his narration.

Comments:

Abu Bakr, during his caliphate, gathered together the pieces of the Qur'an written on different materials, and he assigned this task to Zaib bin Thabit. 'Umar also agreed to this. Zaid gathered the Verses of the whole Qur'an in the form of booklets, and each Surah was in a separate booklet; therefore this copy of the Qur'an consisted of tremendous number of booklets. In the reign of 'Uthman, the people began to differ in the issue of the recital dialect of the Qur'an, each group regarded its recital correct and the other's wrong. So the need of preparing an agreed and comprehensive copy of the Qur'an emerged; for which a standard copy of the Qur'an was prepared. ...”​

Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 3, Book 9, Chapter 35, Number 1944 -

“... 1944. It was narrated that 'Aisha said: “The verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.” (Hasan)​

Muhammad died and no one had as yet compiled the Qur'an into a single source. People which had memorized large portions of the sayings of Muhammad were sent into battle by Abu Bakr and they were slaughtered, thus losing many verses altogether. In the case of Aishah and the sheep, who can blame her lack of guarding such a [per]verse!

See As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur'an, part 3, page 72.
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
...Every Muslim knows about Qira'at, Qira'at does not equate to a "different Qur'an",...
Please do not think to merely brush this aside by too narrow a focus.

Abu Bakr did not want to lose any more of the Qur'anic verses and so he had Zaid ibn Thabit put together what was left into the current manuscript. Others after also began compiling their own manuscripts and large disputes began to happen over what constituted the true Qur'an.

[1] Ibn Mas'ud had only a 111 chapters in his Qur'an.

[2] Ubayy bin Kab had 116 chapters in his Qur'an.

[3] Zaid ibn Thabit, the current [official] Qur'an, has only 114 chapters.
Uthman, then put out his own official version and had all of the others burnt.

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 57 -

“... Narrated Anas: The Prophet sent seventy men from the tribe of Bani Salim to the tribe of Bani Amir. When they reached there, my maternal uncle said to them, "I will go ahead of you, and if they allow me to convey the message of Allah's Apostle (it will be all right); otherwise you will remain close to me." So he went ahead of them and the pagans granted him security But while he was reporting the message of the Prophet , they beckoned to one of their men who stabbed him to death. My maternal uncle said, "Allah is Greater! By the Lord of the Kaba, I am successful." After that they attached the rest of the party and killed them all except a lame man who went up to the top of the mountain. (Hammam, a sub-narrator said, "I think another man was saved along with him)." Gabriel informed the Prophet that they (i.e the martyrs) met their Lord, and He was pleased with them and made them pleased. We used to recite, "Inform our people that we have met our Lord, He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased " Later on this Quranic Verse was cancelled. The Prophet invoked Allah for forty days to curse the murderers from the tribe of Ral, Dhakwan, Bani Lihyan and Bam Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and his Apostle ...”
Ibn Abi Daud, Kitab al-Masahif -

“... Umar was once looking for the text of a specific verse of the Qur'an he vaguely remembered. To his deep sorrow, he discovered that the only person who had any record of that verse had been killed in the battle of Yamama and that the verse was consequently lost. ...”​

And that doesn't even include the 'satanic verses' which were entirely removed, yet other sayings of 'satan' exist in "Q".

Surah 22:52-53 (al-Hilali-Khan translation) -

“... [v.52] Never did We send a Messenger or a Prophet before you but when he did recite the revelation or narrated or spoke, Shaitan (Satan) threw (some falsehood) in it. But Allah abolishes that which Shaitan (Satan) throws in. Then Allah establishes His Revelations. And Allah is the All-Knower, All-Wise. [v.53] That He (Allah) may make what is thrown in by Shaitan (Satan) a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease (of hypocrisy and disbelief) and whose hearts are hardened. And certainly, the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) are in an opposition far-off (from the truth against Allah's Messenger and the believers). ...”​
 
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Crosstian

Baring the Cross
The Satanic verses:

Muhammad even delivered revelations promoting polytheism, called the 'satanic verses', Al-Uzza, Al-Lat and Manat, the three female Cranes, of which were later 'abrogated' or 'forgotten', and more than this, entirely removed from "Q":

Ibn Ishaq, The Life Of Muhammad, A Translation of Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, pages 161-167 paragraphs 233-240 -

[page 161 paragraph 233] “... THE ILL-TREATMENT THE APOSTLE RECEIVED FROM HIS PEOPLE

His uncle and the rest of B. Hasim gathered round him and protected him from the attacks of the Quraysh, who, when they saw that they could not get at him, mocked and laughed at him and disputed with him. The Quran began to come down concerning the wickedness of Quraysh and those who showed enmity to him, some by name and some only referred to in general. Of those named are his uncle Abu Lahab and his wife Umm Jamil, 'the bearer of the wood'. God called her this because she, so I am told, carried thorns and cast them in the apostle's way where he would be passing. So God sent down concerning the pair of them:

Abu Lahab and his hands, God blast, His wealth and gains useless at the last, He shall roast in flames, held fast,With his wife, the bearer of the wood, aghast, On her neck a rope of palm-fiber cast. (203) [1]

I was told that Umm Jamil, the bearer of the wood, when she heard what had come down about her and about her husband in the Quran, came to the apostle of God, when he was sitting in the mosque by the Ka'ba with Abu Bakr, with a stone pestle in her hand, and when she stood by the pair of them God made her unable to see the apostle so that she saw only Abu Bakr and asked him where his companion was, 'for I have been told that he is satirizing me, [2] and by God, if I had found him I would have smashed his mouth with this stone. By God, I am a poet.' Then she said:

We reject the reprobate,
His words we repudiate,
His religion we loathe and hate. [3]

[1] Surah 111. The rhyme of the original has been imitated.
[2] i.e. composed a Hija', which in early times had the effect of a spell which could bring the fate it described on its victims. See my Prophecy and Divination, pp. 248 ff., 258 ff., 281 ff. Umm Jamil's object in trying to smash Muhammad's mouth was to destroy his organs of speech so that he could no longer utter magical curses.
[3] This is a rough attempt to render the rough rhyme of the original, which consists of seven syllables, by a strange coincidence similar to the taunt song of children:

I'm the king of the castle,
Get out you dirty rascal. ...” [pages 161-162 paragraphs 233-234]

[pages 161-162 paragraphs 233-234] “… Then she went off and Abu Bakr asked the apostle if he thought she had seen him. He replied that she had not because God had taken her sight away from him (204).

The Quraysh had called the apostle Mudhammam to revile him. He used to say, 'Aren't you surprised at the injuries of the Quraysh which God turns away from me? They curse me and satirize Mudhammam [reprobate] whereas I am Muhammad [the laudable].'

[Another referred to in the Quran] is Umayya b. Khalaf b. Wahb b. Hudhafa b. Jumah. Whenever he saw the apostle he slandered and reviled him, so God sent down concerning him, 'Woe to every slandering backbiter, who has gathered wealth and increased it, and thinks that his wealth will make him immortal. No, he will be thrown to the devouring fire. What will make you realize what that is? It is God's fire kindled which mounts over the hearts. It is shut in on them in wide columns (205).' [1]

Khabbab b. al-Aratt, the prophet's companion, was a smith in Mecca who used to make swords. He sold some to al-'As b. Wa'il so that he owed him some money and he came to him to demand payment. He answered, 'Does not Muhammad, your companion whose religion you follow, allege that in Paradise there is all the gold and silver and clothes and servants that his people can desire?' 'Certainly,' said Khabbab. 'Then give me till the day of resurrection until I return to that house and pay your debt there; for by God, you and your companion will be no more influential with God than I, and have no greater share in it.' So God revealed concerning him, 'Have you considered him who disbelieves Our signs and says, I shall be given wealth and children. Hath he studied the unseen?' so far as the words, 'and we shall inherit from him what he speaks of and he will come to us alone.' [2]

Abu Jahl met the apostle, so I have heard, and said to him, 'By God, Muhammad, you will either stop cursing our gods or we will curse the God you serve.' So God revealed concerning that, 'Curse not those to whom they pray other than God lest they curse God wrongfully through lack of knowledge.' [3] I have been told that the apostle refrained from cursing their gods, and began to call them to Allah.

Al-Nadir b. al-Harith b. 'Alqama b. Kalada b. 'Abdu Manaf whenever the apostle sat in an assembly and invited people to God, and recited the Quran, and warned the Quraysh of what had happened to former peoples, followed him when he got up and spoke to them about Rustum the Hero and Isfandiyar and the kings of Persia, saying, 'By God, Muhammad cannot tell a better story than I and his talk is only of old fables which he has copied [4] as I have.' So God revealed concerning him, 'And they say, Stories of the ancients which he has copied down, and they are read to ...” [page 162-163 paragraph 235-236]

[1] Surah 104.
[2] Surah 19:80
[3] Surah 6:108
[4] Surah 25:6. iktataba to write down oneself, or to get something written down by another. The former seems to be demanded by the context.

[Page 162-163 paragraph 235-236] “... him morning and night. Say, He who knows the secrets of heaven and earth has sent it down. Verily, He is merciful, forgiving.' [1]

And there came down concerning him, 'When Our verses are read to him he says, fables of the ancients'. [1]

And again, 'Woe to every sinful liar who hears God's verses read before him. Then he continues in pride as though he had not heard them, as though in his ears was deafness. Tell him about a painful punishment' (206). [2]

The apostle sat one day, so I have heard, with al-Walid b. al-Mughira in the mosque, and al-Adr b. al-Harith came and sat with them in the assembly where some of Quraysh were. When the apostle spoke al-Nadr interrupted him, and the apostle spoke to him until he silences him. Then he read to him and to the others: 'Verily ye and what ye serve other than God is the fuel of hell. You will come to it. If these had been gods they would not have come to it, but all will be in it everlastingly. There is a wailing and there they will not hear' (207). [3]

Then the apostle rose and 'Abdullah b. al-Ziba'ra al-Sahmi came and sat down. Al-Walid said to him: 'By God al-Nadr could not stand up to the (grand)son of 'Abdu'l-Muttalib just now and Muhammad alleged that we and our gods are fuel for hell.' 'Abdullah said: 'If I had found him I would have refuted him. Ask Muhammad, “Is everything which is worshipped besides God in Gehenna with those who worship it?” We worship the angels; the Jews worship 'Uzayr; and the Christians worship Jesus Son of Mary.' Al-Walid and those with him in the assembly marvelled at 'Abdullah's words and thought that he had argued convincingly. When the apostle was told of this he said: 'Everyone who wishes to be worshipped to the exclusion of God will be with those who worship him. They worship only satans and those they have ordered to be worshipped.' So God revealed concerning that 'Those who have received kindness from us in the past will be removed far from it and will not hear its sound and they abide eternally in their heart's desire', [4] i.e. Jesus Son of Mary and 'Uzayr and those rabbis and monks who lived in obedience to God, whom the erring people worship as lords beside God. And He revealed concerning their assertion that they worship angels and that they are the daughters of God, 'And they say the Merciful has chosen a son, (exalted be He above this); nay, they are but honoured slaves, they do not speak before He speaks, and they carry out His commands', as far as the words, 'and he of them who says, I am God as well as He, that one we shall repay with Gehenna. Thus do they repay the sinful ones.' [5]

And He revealed concerning what he mentioned about Jesus, Son of Mary, that he was worshipped beside God, and the astonishment of al-Walid and those who were present, at his argument and disputation, 'And ...” [page 163-164 paragraph 237-238]

[1] Surah 83:13.
[2] Surah 45:7.
[3] Surah 21:98.
[4] Surah 21:101.
[5] Surah 21:26-30.

[page 163-164 paragraph 237-238] “...when Jesus, Son of Mary, was cited as an example they people laughed thereat'; [1] i.e. they rejected your attitude to what they say. [2]

Then He mentions Jesus, Son of May, and says, 'He was nothing but a slave to whom We showed favour and made him an example to the children of Israel. If We had wished We could have made from you angels to act as vice-regents in the earth. Verily, there is knowledge of the [last] hour, so doubt not about it but follow Me. This is an upright path,' i.e. the signs which I gave him in raising the dead and healing the sick, therein is sufficient proof of the knowledge of the hour. He says: 'Doubt not about it, but follow Me. This is an upright path.'

Al-Akhnas b. Shariq b. 'Amr b. Wahb al-Thaqafi, ally of B. Zuhra, was one of the leaders of his people who was listened to with respect, and he used to give the apostle much trouble and contradict him, so God sent down about him: 'Do not obey every feeble oath-taker, slanderer, walking about with evil tales,' as far as the word 'zanim'. [3]

He did not say zanim in the sense of 'ignoble' to insult his ancestry, because God does not insult anyone's ancestry, but he confirmed thereby the epithet given to him so that he might be known. Zanim means an adopted member of the tribe. Al-Khatim al-Tamimi said in pagan days:

An outsider whom men invite as a supernumerary
As the legs are useless additions to the width of a pelt.

Al-Walid said: 'Does God send down revelations to Muhammad and ignore me, the greatest chief of Quraysh, to say nothing of Abu Mas'ud 'Amr b. 'Umayr al-Thaqafi, the chief of Thaqif, we being the great ones of Ta'if and Mecca?' So God sent down concerning him, so I am told, 'They said, if this Quran had been revealed to a great man of the two towns,' as far as the words, 'than what they amass'. [4]

Ubayy b. Khalaf b. Wahb b. Hudhafa and 'Uqba b. Abu Mu'ayt were very close friends. Now 'Uqba had sat and listened to the apostle and when Ubayy knew of that he came to him and said, 'Do I hear that you have sat with Muhammad and listened to him? I swear I will never see you or speak to you again (and he swore a great oath) if you do the same again, or if you do not go and spit in his face.' 'Uqba, the enemy of God, actually did this, God curse him. So God sent down concerning the pair of them, ...” [page 164-165 paragraph 238-239]
... continued ...
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
The Satanic verses (continued):

Muhammad even delivered revelations promoting polytheism, called the 'satanic verses', Al-Uzza, Al-Lat and Manat, the three female Cranes, of which were later 'abrogated' or 'forgotten':
Ibn Ishaq, The Life Of Muhammad, A Translation of Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, pages 161-167 paragraphs 233-240 -

[page 164-165 paragraph 238-239]

[1] Surah 43:57.
[2] A difficult phrase. Sadda with the preposition min means 'to laugh immoderately or to make a loud noise'. With 'an it means 'to turn away from'. But these two prepositions are often interchangeable. Ibn Ishaq's explanation of the passage is that the fact that Christians pray to Jesus is no justification for the polytheism of the Meccans, as the latter argued, for Christians perverted the message Jesus brought. When Jesus is adduced as an example (of one who called an evil people to God) the Meccans rejected Muhammad's attitude towards him in what they said; but this exegesis is not sound. The Surah is perfectly consistent in showing how prophets were sent to erring people and were laughed at. Cf. v. 47: The Meccans laugh when Jesus is mentioned because his worship would seem to justify their worshipping several gods. The citation which follows shows where in Muhammad's opinion they were wrong. I.I. has adopted the reading yasudduna (so Nafi', I. 'Amir, and al-Kisa'i) instead of the commoner yasidduna.
[3] Surah 68:10-13.
[4] Surah 43:30.

[page 164-165 paragraph 238-239] “... 'On the day that the sinner bites his hands, saying, would that I had chosen a path with the apostle,' as far as the words 'a deserter of men'. [1]

Ubayy took to the apostle an old bone, crumbling to pieces, and said, 'Muhammad, do you allege that God can revivify this after it has decayed?' Then he crumbled it in his hand and blew the pieces in the apostle's face. The apostle answered: 'Yes, I do say that. God will raise it and you, after you have become like this. Then God will send you to Hell.' So God revealed concerning him, 'He gave us a parable, and he forgot that he was created, saying, who will revivify bones which are rotten? Say, He who gave them life in the first instance will revivify them. He who knows about all creation, who has made for you fire from the green wood, and lo, you kindle flame from it.' [2]

There me the apostle, as he was going round the Ka'ba, so I have been told, [3] Al-Aswad b. al-Muttalib b. Asad b. 'Abdu'l-'Uzza and al-Walid b. al-Mughira and Umayya b. Khalaf and al-'As b. Wa'il al-Sahmi, men of reputation among their people. They said: 'Muhammad, come let us worship what you worship, and you worship what we worship. You and we will combine in the matter. If what you worship is better than what we worship we will take share of it, and if what we worship is better than what you worship, you can take a share of that.' So God revealed concerning them, 'Say, O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship, and I do not worship what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship; you have your religion and I have mine.' [4] i.e. If you will only worship God on condition that I worship what you worship, I have no need of you at all. You can have your religion, all of it, and I have mine.

(T. [1192] Now the apostle was anxious for the welfare of his people, wishing to attract them as far as he could. It has been mentioned that he longed for a way to attract them, and the method he adopted is what Ibn Hamid told me that Salama said M. Ishaq told him from Yazid b. Ziyad of Medina from M. b. Ka'b al-Qurazi: When the apostle saw that his people turned their backs on him and he was pained by their estrangement from what he brought them from God he longed that there should come to him from God a message that would reconcile his people to him. Because of his love for his people and his anxiety over them it would delight him if the obstacle that made his task so difficult could be removed; so that he meditated on the project and longed for it and it was dear to him. Then God sent down 'By the star when it sets your comrade errs not and is not deceived, he speaks not from his own desire,' and when he reached His words 'Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat the third, the other', [5] Satan, when he was meditating upon it, and desiring to bring it ...” [page 165-166 paragraph 239]

[1] Surah 25:29.
[2] Surah 36:78.
[3] Ta. 1191.12 gives the authorities for this tradition as I.I. from Sa'id b. Mina, a freedman of Abu'l-Bakhtari. There are a few verbal discrepancies: the Meccans say, 'If what you have brought is better than what we have ... and if what we have is better than what you have', &c.
[4] Surah 109.
[5] Surah 53:1-20.

[page 165-166 paragraph 239] “... (sc. reconciliation) to his people, put upon his tongue 'these are the exalted Gharaniq [1] whose intercession is approved.' [2] When Quraysh heard that, they were delighted and greatly pleased at the way in which he spoke of their gods and they listened to him; while the believers were holding that what their prophet brought them from their Lord was true, not suspecting a mistake or a vain desire or a slip, and when he reached the prostration [3] and the end of the Surah in which he prostrated himself the Muslims prostrated themselves when their prophet prostrated confirming what he brought and obeying his command, and the polytheists of Quraysh and others who were in the mosque prostrated when they heard the mention of their gods, so that everyone in the mosque believer and unbeliever prostrated, except al-Walid b. al-Mughira who was an old man who could not do so, so he took a handful of dirt from the valley and bent over it. Then the people dispersed and Quraysh went out, delighted at what had been said about their gods, saying, 'Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid fashion. He alleged in what he read that they are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved.'

The news reached the prophet's companions who were in Abyssinia, it being reported that Quraysh had accepted Islam, so some men started to return while others remained behind. Then Gabriel same to the apostle and said, 'What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you. The apostle was bitterly grieved and was greatly in fear of God. So God send down (a revelation), for He was merciful to him, comforting him and making light of the affair and telling him that every prophet and apostle before him desired as he desired and wanted what he wanted and Satan interjected something into his desires as he had on his tongue. So God annulled what Satan had suggested and God established His verses i.e. you are just like the prophets and apostles. Then God sent down: 'We have not sent a prophet or apostle before you but when he longed Satan cast suggestions into his longing. But God will annul what Satan has suggested. Then God will establish his verses, God being knowing and wise.' [4] Thus God relieved his prophet's grief, and made him feel safe from his fears and annulled what Satan had suggested in the words used above their gods by his revelation 'Are yours the males and His the females? That were indeed an unfair division' (i.e. most unjust); 'they are nothing but names which your fathers gave them as far as the words 'to whom he pleases and accepts', [5] i.e. how can the intercession of their gods avail with Him?

When the annulment of what Satan had put upon the prophet's tongue ...[page 166-167 paragraph 239-240]

[1] The word is said to mean 'Numidian cranes' which fly at a great height.
[2] Another reading is turtaja 'to be hoped for'.
[3] Mentioned in the last verse of the Surah.
[4] Surah 22:51. The following verse is not without relevance in this context: 'that He may make what Satan suggested a temptation to those whose hearts are diseased and hardened'.
[5] Surah 53:19-27.


[page 166-167 paragraph 239-240]... came from God, Quraysh said: 'Muhammad has repented of what he said about the position of your gods with Allah, altered it and brought something else.' Now those two words which Satan had put upon the apostle's tongue were in the mouth of every polytheist and they became more violently hostile to the Muslims and the apostle's followers. Meanwhile those of his companions who had left Abyssinia when they heard that the people of Mecca had accepted Islam when they prostrated themselves with the apostle, heard when they approached Mecca that the report was false and none came into the town without the promise of protection or secretly. Of those who did come into Mecca and stayed there until he migrated to Medina and were present at Badr with him was 'Uthman b. 'Affan ... with his wife Ruqayya d. of the apostle and Abu Hudhayfa b. 'Utba with his wife Sahla d. of Suhayl, and a number of others, in all thirty-three men. [1]

Abu Jahl b. Hisham, when God mentioned the tree of al-Zaqqum to strike terror into them, said: 'O Quraysh, do you know what the tree of al-Zaqqum with which Muhammad would scare you is?' When they said that they did not he said: 'It is Yathrib dates buttered. By Allah, if we get hold of them we will gulp them down in one!' So God sent down concerning him, 'Verily the tree of al-Zaqqum is the food of the sinner like molten brass seething in their bellies like boiling water,' [2] i.e. it is not as he said (208). God revealed concerning it, 'And the tree which is cursed in the Quran; and We will frighten them, but it increases them in naught save great wickedness.' [3]

Al-Walid was having a long conversation with the apostle who greatly desired to convert him to Islam when I. Umm Maktum, a blind man, passed by and began to ask the apostle to recite the Quran. The prophet found this hard to bear and it annoyed him, because he was diverting him from al-Walid and spoiling the chance of his conversion; and when the man became importunate he went off frowning and left him. So God revealed concerning him, 'He frowned and turned his back when the blind man came to him' as far as the words 'in books honoured, exalted, and purified', [4] i.e. I sent you only to be an evangelist and a reprover; I did not specify one person to the exclusion of another, so withhold not (the message) from him who seeks it, and do not waste time over one who does not want it (209). ...” [page 167 paragraph 240]

[1] A parallel tradition from M. b. Ka'b al-Qurazi and M. b. Qays is given by T. 1195-6.
[2] Surah 44:43. Suhayli, p. 228, has an interesting note to the effect that this word is of Yamani
origin, and that there it means anything which causes vomiting.
[3] Surah 17:62.
[4] Surah 80. ..."
How does any Muslim know that there are not other Satanically inspired verses in the Qur'an, or in the very least in the Sahih Hadiths? What assurances do they have?
 
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