Don't worry about moslems, we can manage responding to these lies ..
... continued ...
In a Qur'an, Yusuf-Ali, Al Baqara 2:124-127, we read of the Islamic
"Ibrahim" and
"Isma'il" in a place which is assumed to be Makkah [Mecca], and rebuilding the foundations of the
"House" [Ka'ba] and
"sanctify[ing]" [
Al Baqara 2:125; see Yusuf-Ali's notation *129 [sectioned] "... Such Paganism or star-worship or planet-worship as there was
in Abraham's time was first cleared out of Makkah by Abraham, This is the chief meaning of "sanctification" or "purification" in 2:125, ..."] it of the paganism and idols, which would mean that there were already peoples in that area, who had build such a city, and placed their idols there, long before the Islamic
"Ibrahim" and
"Isma'il" arrived there.
In a Qur'an, Yusuf-Ali, Ibrahim 14:9, it says in part,
"Has not the story reached you, (O people!), of those who (went) before you? - of the people of Noah, and ´Ad, and Thamud? - And of those who (came) after them? ..."
In a Qur'an, Yusuf-Ali, Al Hajj 22:42, it says in part,
"... People of Noah, and ´Ad and Thamud;", which
afterwards in
Al Hajj 22:43 follows the names of
"Abraham and Lot", and in
Al Hajj 22:44,
follows the name of
"Moses", which immediate pattern of names seems to indicate that
"'Ad and Thamud", by Islamic criteria/standards, was
before or at the time of Abraham.
In a Qur'an. Yusuf-Ali, Al Mu'minun 23:30-31, it says in part [having mentioned the disembarking of Noah in
Al Mu'minum 23:23-29, "Then We raised after them another generation.", "And We sent to them a messenger from among themselves, (2894) ...", and the notation by Yusuf-Ali *2894, says [in part], "If this refers to any particular prophet, it must be
Hud whose mission was
to the 'Ad people, or to
Salih, whose mission was
to the Thamud people. That is the sequence
after Noah in
11:50-60 and
61-68. But I think that as the name is not mentioned, we are to understand in general the type of
post-Flood prophets until we come later on to Moses and Jesus ..."
In a Qur'an, Yusuf-Ali, Al Furqan 25:37-38 and notation, we read of the people of
"'Ad and Thamud",
following after the name of
"Noah", wherein notation *3094 says,
"3094 Commentators are not clear as to who the "Companions of the Ross" were. The root meaning of "rass" is an old well or shallow water-pit. Another root connects it with the burial of the dead. But it is probably the name of a town or place. The "Companions of the Rass" may well have been the people of Shu'ayb, as they are here mentioned with 'Ad,Thamud, and Lot 's people, and the people of Shu'ayb are mentioned in a similar connection in 26:176-190 and in 11:84-95. Shu'ayb was the prophet of the Madyan people in the northwest of Arabia , where many old wells are found. There is however, an oasis town al Rass in the district of Qasim in Middle Najd, about thirty-five miles southwest of the town of 'Unayzah, reputed to be the central point of the Arabian Peninsula, and situated midway between Makkah and Basrah. See Doughty's Arabia Deserta, thin paper onevolume edition, London 1926, II. 435 and Map. Lat. 26°N., and Long. 43°E."
In a Qur'an, Yusuf-Ali, Al Shu'ara 26:123-124,141-142, after Noah is again mentioned in
Al Shu'ara 26:106-119, we have the mention of
"'Ad", and "Hud", as well as
"Thamud" and
"Salih" [
Al Shu'ara 26:141-142], as well as
"Lut" and family, and the destruction of peoples [Lot,
Al Shu'ara 26:160,161,167,170-173], which thus indicates, at least according to
Qur'anic and Islamic sources in regards geo-political peoples,
were around at the same general era of time.
If tied to a Biblical [KJB] timeframe, because of the mention of Noah, unto the destruction of the peoples [which would indicate the cities of the plain, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc], and with Lot, it would indicate that
these people groups existed in the Arabian peninsula before, during and after Abraham's journey from Ur of the Chaldees and his sojourn into Canaan and Egypt and out again.
According to Islamic [
Al-A'raf 7:73-74;
"Salih" possibly being
"Salah" of Arphaxad,
Genesis 10:24 KJB] and possibly some non-Islamic historic sources [
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamud ], the
"'Ad and Thamud", peoples existing [
southern Arabia, in the Hejaz, see also Yusuf-Ali notation *2002, on
Al Hijr 15:80, "2002 "The Rocky Tract" is undoubtedly a
geographical name. On the maps of
Arabia will be found a tract called
the Hijr, north of Madinah. Jabal Hijr is about 150 miles north of Madinah. The tract would fall on the highway to Syria .
This was the country of Thamud. For them and the country see
7:73, n. 1043.]
circa 715 BC, and possibly long before in the time even before and during Abraham's time, were supposed to be descendants of the Islamic
"Iram" [Bible [KJB] "Aram"] and
"Ars" [Bible [KJB] "Uz"], see also
Genesis 10:22,23; 1 Chronicles 1:17 KJB.
According to Ibn Ishaq's siratul Rasu'allah [the first classical work of the biographical life of Muhammad] [circa AD 765],
page 3-4 [sectioned], we read of the Islamic
genealogical line of Isma'il,
"... [page 3] Isma'il, b. Ibrahim, the friend of the Compassionate, b. Tarih (who is Azar), b. Nahur, b. Sarugh, b. Ra'u, b. Falikh, b. 'Aybar, b. Shalikh, b. Arfakhshadh, b. Sam, b. Nuh, b. Lamk, b. Mattushalakh, b. Akhnukh, who is the prophet Idris according to what they allege, 2, but God knows best (he was the first of the sons of Adam to whom prophecy and writing with a pen were given), b. Yard, b. Mahlil, b. Qaynan, b. Yanish, b. ****h, b. Adam (10).* ...", and then,
"... [page 4] 'Ad b. 'Aus b. Iram b. Sam b. Nuh and Thamud and Jadis the two sons of 'Abir b. Iram b. Sam b. nuh, and Tasm and 'Imlaq and Umaym the sons of Lawidh b. Sam b. Nuh are all Arabs. ..."
It is obvious, if I take the Qur'anic, authentic Islamic aHadith, Tafsir and historic biographical sources, even at their own face value, in the matter of peoples living in Arabia before Isma'il, I see that I cannot come to any other conclusion than that Isma'il is
not "the" [singular, definite article]
'Father of the Arab/s',
nor even the originator of the Arabic language/s, as some might desire to say, as according to the authentic Islamic source,
Isma'il "learned Arabic from" a people group
already present in the Arabian penisula, and of which were of the peoples of
"Qahtan" [possibly the
"Joktan" [a son of Eber] of the Bible [KJB],
Genesis 10:25,30-32; 1 Chronicles 1:20 KJB], and that the peoples of
"'Ad and Thamud" were already present also, among others.
I also searched the Biblical [KJB] record, and here is what I find:
The Bible [KJB] itself, God's perfectly inspired, preserved and eternal word [Psalms 12:6-7, 105:8, 119:89,160; Isaiah 40:8; Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33; John 10:35; 2 Timothy 3:10-17 KJB], though it does
not agree with the Islamic aHadith sources
in the specifics of Ishmael's spouses, [similarly, though not exactly],
nor even of the specifics of his migrational location
does declare that there were indeed peoples
already populated in the Arabian peninsula, specifically
from the time just after the flood of Noah, when his descendants spread out over the earth, from "Shem, Ham and Japheth" [Genesis 5:32 KJB]. However, before considering those events, I wanted to look at the origin and later migration of Ishmael himself from the Bible's [KJB] texts.
Ishmael, according to the Bible [KJB] was born of the lineage of Abraham [a 'son' [descendant] of
"Eber", hence
"Abram the Hebrew" [Genesis 14:13 KJB; see also Genesis 39:14,17 KJB and so also Joseph, son of Jacob/Israel [grandson of Abraham], was an “
Hebrew”, as per Genesis 41:12 KJB]] and of Hagar [an Egyptian slave-girl given to Sarai/h to be a bondservant, by a king of Egypt; Genesis 16:1-3,8,10, 17:20, 21:9-21, 25:12,17; Galatians 4:21-31 KJB] as may be seen from Genesis 16:10, 17:20, 1 Chronicles 1:28 KJB.
This means that of
origin biologically, geographically and of language,
Ishmael was
an Hebrew [father's side] -
Egyptian [mother's side] born [Genesis 16:3, see also "plain of Mamre", Genesis 14:13, 18:1, 49:30 KJB]
and sojourned in the land of Canaan [a 'son' of Ham; Genesis 10:6,20; 1 Chronicles 1:8 KJB], and thus may be rightly called [a coined phrase]
'an Hegyptian Canaanite', whose native language/s was/were
not Arabic, but that of Abraham [ie,
Chaldean, see "Ur of the Chaldeees" Genesis 11:28,31, 15:7, 24:4; Nehemiah 9:7 KJB] and even of his mother, ie Egyptian, and possibly even of the langauge of Canaan, having sojourned there.
There were
already peoples in the Arabian peninsula [as spread all over], such as the
Joktanite [Genesis 10:25-29; 1 Chronicles 1:19-23 KJB], and the
Palgite [of Peleg, the Pelegite, Genesis 10:25, 11:16-19; 1 Chronicles 1:19,25 KJB], and even the Albert Barnes Commentary picks up on this, saying, “... The Ishmaelites constituted
the second element of the great Arab nation ...”, though according to other and greater evidences, may not even be the "second element", as Albert Barnes says eleswhere, on Genesis 25:6, " ... These descendants of Abraham and Keturah are
the third contribution of Palgites to the Joktanites, who constituted the original element of the Arabs ...". Places/cities like
"Hazarmaveth" [named after the son of
"Joktan", see Genesis 10:26; 1 Chronicles 1:20 KJB] were already in existence then, as others. Moreoever,
"Uz" [Genesis 10:22; 1 Chronicles 1:17 KJB], and the
"Sinites" [of 'Sin' or 'Sinai', Genesis 10:17 KJB] were also present. Even the children of Ham, having moved down into Canaan, Egypt, and in the Arabian areas would have sojourned there.
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