Apparently, the religious on RF don't even know the difference between good and bad.

[TheKnight]

Need I say more?

If you wish to remain known as a logical person, it would probably be wise to do so.

Or did you not even read the rest of my post where I explained the concept of slavery in Halakha?

 

[Autodidact]

Contrary to what TK is stating, OT slavery is not voluntary servitude. Or rather, it encompasses a variety of practices, including indentured servitude, but extending to buying and selling other people, which apparently TK is O.K. with, since it's O.K. with God.

44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Leviticus 25

 

[TheKnight]

Contrary to what TK is stating, OT slavery is not voluntary servitude. Or rather, it encompasses a variety of practices, including indentured servitude, but extending to buying and selling other people, which apparently TK is O.K. with, since it's O.K. with God.

Leviticus 25

Is there something inherently evil with buying a person and bringing them into an environment where all their needs are provided for with the condition that they work?

 

[Autodidact]

Is there something inherently evil with buying a person and bringing them into an environment where all their needs are provided for with the condition that they work?

The depth of your moral degredation never ceases to amaze me. Yes, there is something immoral about slavery. Do you really need me to explain it to you?

 

[TheKnight]

The depth of your moral degredation never ceases to amaze me. Yes, there is something immoral about slavery. Do you really need me to explain it to you?

Yes. Please. Explain it to me because you have never before explained your logic to me.

 

[MSizer]

Hey Guys, morality does contain an objective component, and it is strongly supported by the experiments of Houser & Singer. They tested people from diffrent religious background and different cultures and found that 97% of the people, when presented with hypothetical moral dilemmas, answered the same way, no matter what their background was. That strongly suggests that we are hard wireds somehow to feel certain things. However, we also have the capacity to reason, and override our gut feelings, so that's why there is disagreement about what is ethical. Religious and cultural differnces nurture us in different ways than others, so we end up disagreeing, even though we have some common bioligical foundation for morality.

 

[Storm]

Hey Guys, morality does contain an objective component, and it is strongly supported by the experiments of Houser & Singer. They tested people from diffrent religious background and different cultures and found that 97% of the people, when presented with hypothetical moral dilemmas, answered the same way, no matter what their background was. That strongly suggests that we are hard wireds somehow to feel certain things. However, we also have the capacity to reason, and override our gut feelings, so that's why there is disagreement about what is ethical. Religious and cultural differnces nurture us in different ways than others, so we end up disagreeing, even though we have some common bioligical foundation for morality.

OK, but how does commonality imply objectivity?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Because we can know how the concepts are often defined and what is often considered good or evil. I know from my perspective it's not that I don't know the difference between the two concepts it's simply that I prefer to avoid using them. As such if I were to give an example of a good or evil action then I would simply be relating someone else's perspective and not my own. Just because we don't give you the answer you want to hear doesn't mean we have no idea what you are talking about.

You have no idea what answer I want to hear.

 

[Beaudreaux]

If you wish to remain known as a logical person, it would probably be wise to do so.

Or did you not even read the rest of my post where I explained the concept of slavery in Halakha?

Well, I'm sure the Halakhan's have wonderful rules about slavery and maybe even a different definition, but the word has a few negative connotations in everyday use.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Is there something inherently evil with buying a person and bringing them into an environment where all their needs are provided for with the condition that they work?

Not at all. BTW, how much for your daughter?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I am a religious person and I know the difference between good and evil.

Let's get one thing straight right off the bat though. It's not the ACTION that is evil, it's the INTENT of the perpetrator that determines evil or good.

So, if a serial killer murders 200 people, but sincerely believes that he was helping people by killing them, he wouldn't be evil?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is there something inherently evil with buying a person and bringing them into an environment where all their needs are provided for with the condition that they work?

Yes, there is. Ownership of a person as property is inherently immoral regardless of how well that person is treated.

 

[Storm]

So, if a serial killer murders 200 people, but sincerely believes that he was helping people by killing them, he wouldn't be evil?

That's an interesting question.....

 

[Smoke]

For instance, genocide is moral if God commands it.

However, in real life, God has not commanded me to commit genocide. So why does it matter that I say that genocide is moral if God commands it? On a practical level there's no reason to argue.

Your god may not have commanded you to commit genocide, but he has commanded it, and genocide and other mass slaughters have often been justified on religious grounds, so it is -- unfortunately -- an urgently practical issue.

No. It's not. God does not command me to commit genocide, infanticide, polygamy or slavery. Neither am I commanded not to shave, not to wear mixed fiber clothing, or not to work on Saturday. Engaging in homosexual sexual activity is immoral, yes.

But your Hasidic friends are subject to those commands, and you seem to agree that that's a good thing. I understand that as a "Hasidic Noahide" you get to have all the self-righteousness with none of the religious obligations, but if you want be able to dismiss the Torah as irrelevant, I think you're going to need a new label.

 

[Beaudreaux]

So, if a serial killer murders 200 people, but sincerely believes that he was helping people by killing them, he wouldn't be evil?

Apparently it's the thought that counts, not the body count.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes. Please. Explain it to me because you have never before explained your logic to me.

Well try this: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
--Hillelhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder#cite_note-2

 

[Kerr]

So, if a serial killer murders 200 people, but sincerely believes that he was helping people by killing them, he wouldn't be evil?

Yes, it would be evil. That he believed he helped them only means he has... problems.

I am a person who base my ethics and moral mostly on principles, however there exist people who takes another approach, namely valuing the intent or the consequenses.

 

[painter49]

I'm new here .... But it seems That those seeking God are under attack !!!
The non-believers LOVE to call us believers intollerant... it seems they are holding the baton now!!!

 

[Storm]

Dude, calm down.

 

[Kathryn]

So, if a serial killer murders 200 people, but sincerely believes that he was helping people by killing them, he wouldn't be evil?

This is a ridiculous question.

No, wait, it's a straw man.

First of all, if someone truly believed that he was helping innocent people by killing them, whether it was one person or one thousand people, that person would be MENTALLY DERANGED - which can differ from being evil, though often the two are present together.

I would venture to say that in order for a person to deginerate into such a psychopathic state, they would have had a lot of evil in their hearts to begin with - or they are totally insane and need to be institutionalized, treated, whatever.