Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

[Greatest I am]

I thought Jesus was incarnation of the 3rd perfect Aeon, known as Autogenes or Christ, according to the Apocryphron of John?

Gnostic Christianity has two aspects. Our myths, which we know are myths, were written to stimulate discussions with the old Christian seekers before they became literalists and idol worshipers.

Further to the older and wiser way of thinking.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

The second and most important part of Gnostic Christianity is the seeking of Gnosis.

In ancient days, God was defined as the best rules and laws to live by. We should return to that way of thinking. A supernatural God is not here for us to follow and all we have is his rules and laws that have all been expressed by a person. God is therefore a person and that is why Gnostic Christians call God I am and truly mean themselves.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

You said:


So, what kinds of things do you believe Jesus could do that true believers could also do?

That quote I used to try to make so called believers think out of their usual box.

The Gnostic Christian way of looking at that quote is to recognize that Jesus, or what the scribe thought of Jesus, was that he was all about good thinking. Not un-provable miracles.

To the more esoteric and Gnostic Christian Jesus, all growth was mental and spiritual and that is what he concentrated on. Note how he urges us to seek Gnosis.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

If you look up Michelangelo's creation painting, it might become easier for you to see how your own inner Father, not only in biblical terms but also from Jung and Freud's Father Complex, give birth to you as a son of God.

Note in particular how God is set in a representation of the right hemisphere of your brain.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Creaci%C3%B3n_de_Ad%C3%A1n_(Miguel_%C3%81ngel).jpg&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Creation_of_Adam&h=775&w=1707&tbnid=_qYF4vPQQ6RKMM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=200&docid=z6wsmx1yBNn7nM&itg=1&usg=__zEGWx8NxdYmB9oE-QdRimTSiHfk=

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I feel that if we have an image of what we call god in our heads, then yes we are idol worshipers.

Follow that feeling. It is correct.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Hi DL, What about the "Few" that you mentioned? Do they not count or do you regard them as idol-worshipers too?

That would depend on them.

A Gnostic Christian is a perpetual seeker and after his apoptosis, minus the divine part of how that is defined, will set the God he found aside so as not to become an idol worshiper, raise his or her bar of excellence and seek anew.

Most who claim having found God do become idol worshipers of whatever they find and they let their minds stagnate from then on.

To a Gnostic Christian, what is said at the end of this short link is quite true.

Regards
DL

 

[The_Fisher_King]

That quote I used to try to make so called believers think out of their usual box.

The Gnostic Christian way of looking at that quote is to recognize that Jesus, or what the scribe thought of Jesus, was that he was all about good thinking. Not un-provable miracles.

To the more esoteric and Gnostic Christian Jesus, all growth was mental and spiritual and that is what he concentrated on. Note how he urges us to seek Gnosis.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

If you look up Michelangelo's creation painting, it might become easier for you to see how your own inner Father, not only in biblical terms but also from Jung and Freud's Father Complex, give birth to you as a son of God.

Note in particular how God is set in a representation of the right hemisphere of your brain.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Creaci%C3%B3n_de_Ad%C3%A1n_(Miguel_%C3%81ngel).jpg&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Creation_of_Adam&h=775&w=1707&tbnid=_qYF4vPQQ6RKMM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=200&docid=z6wsmx1yBNn7nM&itg=1&usg=__zEGWx8NxdYmB9oE-QdRimTSiHfk=

Regards
DL

You said:

Millions of children starve and die from other preventable cause yearly. A Jesus type would end that death.

What are you waiting for?

Implying that I as a self-claimed 'Jesus type' (in your opinion) ought to be capable of preventing the starvation and death of millions of children every year. Are you then claiming that Jesus prevented the starvation and death of millions of children every year?

 

[Greatest I am]

You said:



Implying that I as a self-claimed 'Jesus type' (in your opinion) ought to be capable of preventing the starvation and death of millions of children every year. Are you then claiming that Jesus prevented the starvation and death of millions of children every year?

No.

But the mythical miracle working Jesus said that any true believer could do all he did and more.

If a true believer can't even start his round of healing and feeding, then he is obviously not a true believer and lying to himself.

Regards
DL

 

[The_Fisher_King]

But the mythical miracle working Jesus said that any true believer could do all he did and more.

And you can say for sure what the 'more' here refers to?

If a true believer can't even start his round of healing and feeding, then he is obviously not a true believer and lying to himself.

Similarly, you can say for sure that the true believers aren't healing and feeding people?

 

[Greatest I am]

And you can say for sure what the 'more' here refers to?

The Jesus we are discussing is thought to be god. God is said to be able to do anything.

Similarly, you can say for sure that the true believers aren't healing and feeding people?

With miracles, yes.

If there was such a person doing healings, the whole world would know. Amputees would be his first choice of patients.

Regards
DL

 

[The_Fisher_King]

[/QUOTE]The Jesus we are discussing is thought to be god. God is said to be able to do anything.[/QUOTE]

That is neither the Jesus nor the God I have in mind.

With miracles, yes.

If there was such a person doing healings, the whole world would know. Amputees would be his first choice of patients.

Why? A miracle-worker could work miracles without drawing attention to themself, or perhaps even to the miraculous nature of their miracles.

 

[Greatest I am]

The Jesus we are discussing is thought to be god. God is said to be able to do anything.[/QUOTE]

That is neither the Jesus nor the God I have in mind.



Why? A miracle-worker could work miracles without drawing attention to themself, or perhaps even to the miraculous nature of their miracles.[/QUOTE]

??

You reverse the dogma.

If Jesus did as you say a miracle worker would do, Christians would not attribute miracles to him.

One does not hide his talent. One displays it.

Regards
DL

 

[The_Fisher_King]

??

You reverse the dogma.

I am not a Christian, so why should I hold to the dogma you appear to be criticising? I never said that I hold to this dogma. I have my own dogma, wrt both Jesus and God. Moreover, why do you assume that being, as you put it, a 'true believer' requires me to hold to what Jesus did or didn't or might or might not have said about what that implies?

If Jesus did as you say a miracle worker would do, Christians would not attribute miracles to him.

I didn't say that Jesus necessarily did or did not show his miracles to others. We were talking about a true believer (after him).

One does not hide his talent. One displays it.

Who says?

 

[Greatest I am]

I am not a Christian, so why should I hold to the dogma you appear to be criticising? I never said that I hold to this dogma. I have my own dogma, wrt both Jesus and God. Moreover, why do you assume that being, as you put it, a 'true believer' requires me to hold to what Jesus did or didn't or might or might not have said about what that implies?



I didn't say that Jesus necessarily did or did not show his miracles to others. We were talking about a true believer (after him).



Who says?

You wish to know who would say that.

Every talented person out here.

They will see it as their duty to society.

Regards
DL

 

[The_Fisher_King]

You wish to know who would say that.

Every talented person out here.

They will see it as their duty to society.

Regards
DL

It is entirely possibly to use one's talents without displaying them for all to see. Particularly if one has the kind of power a true believer has.

 

[Greatest I am]

It is entirely possibly to use one's talents without displaying them for all to see. Particularly if one has the kind of power a true believer has.

If one uses a talent without displaying that talent, then it is a wasted talent and a delusion talent.

If a true believer cannot or will not display his talent, then he is not emulating Jesus the way Jesus said we all should.

Regards
DL

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If one uses a talent without displaying that talent, then it is a wasted talent and a delusion talent.

How so?

 

[Greatest I am]

How so?

Talent is judge by others is it not?

To only go by ones own opinion is to never test it for it's veracity.

That is scripture.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

I. E.
You might think you are the best pianist in the world but if no one else agrees then you are likely delusional.

Regards
DL

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Talent is judge by others is it not?

I don't see that it has to be. Whether or not I have a talent for something doesn't necessarily depend on the opinion of others.

To only go by ones own opinion is to never test it for it's veracity.

That is scripture.

Whose scripture?

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't see that it has to be. Whether or not I have a talent for something doesn't necessarily depend on the opinion of others.



Whose scripture?

The scripture I quoted.

As to talent. The degree of that talent is dependent on the observers.

If only the one observes it, yourself, and it is not tested against the standards set by society, then it cannot be recognized or confirmed as a true talent as described and recognized by the masses.

Regards
DL

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The scripture I quoted.

Right, but this scripture holds no special place in my worldview. I am not bound by it.

As to talent. The degree of that talent is dependent on the observers.

It's possible we have differing understandings of what talent is. How do you define talent? How does it relate to similar notions, like ability, aptitude, skill, etc., in your opinion?

If only the one observes it, yourself, and it is not tested against the standards set by society, then it cannot be recognized or confirmed as a true talent as described and recognized by the masses.

Again, this may depend on how one defines talent (see above comment). I can do something that depends on my talent to do something. Whether or not someone observes me doing that thing (using my talent) doesn't take away from the fact that I have done it. I could do something amazing, but not claim it as my own. I could do something miraculous which I do not own up to and which either remains unexplained or is explained away using 'natural laws' or as something else. But none of that takes anything away from the fact that I have done that thing using my special talents.

I am not the only one who observes what I do. Even if I think I have done something in secret, God observes what I do. And so sometimes do a range of other beings that other people cannot see.

 

[sojourner]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism

"Mysticism is popularly known as becoming one with God"

Look again for the first time at Christianity and Islam.

Those Gods never promise our becoming one with him.

In those creeds, we are either under their Gods in heaven or hell.

We are to always be his subjects and never his equal.

That is why I prefer the Jewish and Gnostic Christian view of God. That God is a human.

As above, so below.

The strong are serve the weak and not the weak serving the strong.

God is to be slaved to mankind and not mankind slaved to God.

Jesus reinforced that notion by saying that the Sabbath was created for man and not man for the Sabbath. The same applies to religions and Gods. They are both created by us to serve us and not us to serve them.

Regards
DL

In the Christian paradigm, we are reconciled to God through the Incarnation, or God becoming one of us. That is a mystic concept.