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Are all gods illiterate

Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
I think you're confusing science with existence.

Science is about searching for truth, and is a man-made method. Gravity has always been there, but science hasn't always demonstrated this. Science is a process, not a state of being.

Well yes that may be the case, for Kriya isn't documented by the science community as science. However, I'm simply stating that Yogi's through the ages have already done the experimentations to know it to be a science to them personally. That is all I'm saying here.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
For many reasons. Main one is the supernal bliss felt within. Another the slowing down of the aging process in bodily cells. Another the consistent peace and upliftment it brings to all after practicing it. Another many have experienced Samadhi and superconscious experiences through persistent practice. It also increases health and reduces stress consistently. Everyone feels the deep energy in their spine or kundalini. They also all can hear the vibration of energy or aum sound louder and louder as they meditate. Ultimately it definitely changes ones awareness and makes everyone more compassionate and spiritual. This is an external result that everyone can see.

but that doesn't belong to spiritualism exclusively...
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Can you expound on that?

anyone is capable of reaching peace and harmony and nirvana...in any capacity whether it be by loving, being, learning, nurturing or pondering...
these attributes depend on the person...we are all more alike than we are different...
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
To the OP, this is always a problem concerning "holy" texts. Being written by humans, they can have mistakes like contradictions, and other issues. When the OT was compiled much discussion and effort went into making it as 'authentic' as possible.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
To the OP, this is always a problem concerning "holy" texts. Being written by humans, they can have mistakes like contradictions, and other issues. When the OT was compiled much discussion and effort went into making it as 'authentic' as possible.


I agree

but that was 3000 years ago when man knew very little of the natural world around him.

part of humanitys biggest weakness is the lack of communication.

it would be great if deitys were not illiterate and helped us out
 

outhouse

Atheistically
So if millions say it works that still isn't good enough huh? It may not be scientific in terms of the strict sense of the word but to those who try it and it works they know personally that it is a science because it is repetitive and gives the exact same results to all.

Also sorry Outhouse. Not trying to tangent your thread.


dont worry my friend, im easy going.


I understand what your saying and what proccesses are involved, I only see these as enlightened personal states of conciousness. I find no connection to a deity.

I have studied out of body travel when I was younger and read at the time every book out on it. While interesting I dont find a ounce of divinity within it.
 

Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
anyone is capable of reaching peace and harmony and nirvana...in any capacity whether it be by loving, being, learning, nurturing or pondering...
these attributes depend on the person...we are all more alike than we are different...

Yes but the end product is samadhi or oneness with God. Every blissful state before that is a stepping stone to get you ready for that shocking state of divine fulfillment. After that God beguiles you with divine guidance and powers. Its how Jesus found God according to my Guru.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Yes but the end product is samadhi or oneness with God.
you may call in oneness with god, i call it enjoying and appreciating the ride.

Every blissful state before that is a stepping stone to get you ready for that shocking state of divine fulfillment.
i consider my self to be very lucky... to be able to receive the fulfillment i get when i look into my sons eyes or when i write a piece of music i'm proud of...
i'm there man... and i'm happy you have found fulfillment too :rainbow1:

After that God beguiles you with divine guidance and powers. Its how Jesus found God according to my Guru.
the power of love is all i need...i believe that is what you are eluding to....
 

Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
you may call in oneness with god, i call it enjoying and appreciating the ride.

Well it's an actual transcendent, metaphysical, and spiritual experience. It is what all Yogis and human beings have to look forward to in the future. It is God's being. Here is what I'm talking about in a poem by Yogananda describing Samadhi when he first experienced it in his Guru's hermitage.

Vanished the veils of light and shade,
Lifted every vapor of sorrow,
Sailed away all dawns of fleeting joy,
Gone the dim sensory mirage.
Love, hate, health, disease, life, death,
Perished these false shadows on the screen of duality.
Waves of laughter, scyllas of sarcasm, melancholic whirlpools,
Melting in the vast sea of bliss.
The storm of maya stilled
By magic wand of intuition deep.
The universe, forgotten dream, subconsciously lurks,
Ready to invade my newly wakened memory divine.
I live without the cosmic shadow,
But it is not, bereft of me;
As the sea exists without the waves,
But they breathe not without the sea.
Dreams, wakings, states of deep turiya sleep,
Present, past, future, no more for me,
But ever-present, all-flowing I, I, everywhere.
Planets, stars, stardust, earth,
Volcanic bursts of doomsday cataclysms,
Creation's molding furnace,
Glaciers of silent x-rays, burning electron floods,
Thoughts of all men, past, present, to come,
Every blade of grass, myself, mankind,
Each particle of universal dust,
Anger, greed, good, bad, salvation, lust,
I swallowed, transmuted all
Into a vast ocean of blood of my own one Being!
Smoldering joy, oft-puffed by meditation
Blinding my tearful eyes,
Burst into immortal flames of bliss,
Consumed my tears, my frame, my all.
Thou art I, I am Thou,
Knowing, Knower, Known, as One!
Tranquilled, unbroken thrill, eternally living, ever new peace!
Enjoyable beyond imagination of expectancy, samadhi bliss!
Not a mental chloroform
Or unconscious state without wilful return,
Samadhi but extends my conscious realm
Beyond the limits of the mortal frame
To farthest boundary of eternity
Where I, the Cosmic Sea,
Watch the little ego floating in me.
The sparrow, each grain of sand, fall not without my sight.
All space like an iceberg floats within my mental sea.
Colossal Container, I, of all things made.
By deeper, longer, thirsty, guru-given meditation
Comes this celestial samadhi
Mobile murmurs of atoms are heard,
The dark earth, mountains, vales, lo! molten liquid!
Flowing seas change into vapors of nebulae!
Aum blows upon the vapors, opening wondrously their veils,
Oceans stand revealed, shining electrons,
Till, at last sound of the cosmic drum,
Vanish the grosser lights into eternal rays
Of all-pervading bliss.
From joy I came, for joy I live, in sacred joy I melt.
Ocean of mind, I drink all creation's waves.
Four veils of solid, liquid, vapor, light,
Lift aright.
Myself, in everything, enters the Great Myself.
Gone forever, fitful, flickering shadows of mortal memory.
Spotless is my mental sky, below, ahead, and high above.
Eternity and I, one united ray.
A tiny bubble of laughter, I
Am become the Sea of Mirth Itself.


i consider my self to be very lucky... to be able to receive the fulfillment i get when i look into my sons eyes or when i write a piece of music i'm proud of...
i'm there man... and i'm happy you have found fulfillment too :rainbow1:

That is awesome my friend and I'm very happy for you too. All I'm saying is there is more and if you can mix God or his presence in your life all those experiences you have are enhanced ten fold. Nevertheless I am glad you have found your joy in life! I can only imagine the deep love and joy you feel by having a child.

the power of love is all i need...i believe that is what you are eluding to....

Well yes you can put it that way. God is love and is the king of love so yeah to uncover him more in your life just means more love but in a more divine, unconditional, understanding, and eternal way. Something that stems past this lifetime.
 

Otherright

Otherright
there have been hundreds of deitys in the last 6000 years of written text, cuniform and stone writing.

Not one word has ever been written by beings so powerfull, some are said to have created everything, visited earth, sent there son down to die as a mortal man.

Are all gods and deitys illiterate.?


My take is that they all are illiterate. If there was a higher power it would not be hard to jot down a few sentences for the benifit mankind, unless they just didnt know how to read or write.

I understand hinduism may have ancient books authored by self proclaimed deitys but their divinity is up for debate and not part of this thread.


I thought this was a great question right along the lines of what Russell said about the Gods of pagan traditions.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
"Have I not said ye are gods?"

Which tells me, God has done a whole lot of writing / reading.

IMO, the OP statements are false or misleading. Feigning ignorance.

Like saying, "My take is that the natural order is illiterate. If there was a process of evolution, it would not be hard to jot down a few sentences for the benifit mankind, unless it just didnt know how to read or write."

Or, "My take is that the gravitational forces are illiterate. If there were gravitational forces, it would not be hard to jot down a few sentences for the benifit mankind, unless it just didnt know how to read or write."

Yeah, silly right?

Hey, I thought of another one...

"My take is that the music is illiterate. If there was such a thing as music, it would not be hard to jot down a few sentences for the benifit mankind, unless it just didnt know how to read or write."
 

Otherright

Otherright
"Have I not said ye are gods?"

Which tells me, God has done a whole lot of writing / reading.

IMO, the OP statements are false or misleading. Feigning ignorance.

Like saying, "My take is that the natural order is illiterate. If there was a process of evolution, it would not be hard to jot down a few sentences for the benifit mankind, unless it just didnt know how to read or write."

Or, "My take is that the gravitational forces are illiterate. If there were gravitational forces, it would not be hard to jot down a few sentences for the benifit mankind, unless it just didnt know how to read or write."

Yeah, silly right?

Hey, I thought of another one...

"My take is that the music is illiterate. If there was such a thing as music, it would not be hard to jot down a few sentences for the benifit mankind, unless it just didnt know how to read or write."

I think his point is that deities, unlike music or natural order, are supposedly imbued with sentience. That if they are all-knowing and all-powerful creators of all things, you'd think they'd give proof to the peoples they created, perhaps in the form of written laws, especially if they desired those peoples to worship them.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
. If there was a process of evolution
Feigning ignorance
gravitational forces are illiterate
music is illiterate

says volumes about you and your reply

nobody worships these things and no one believes these things have created the world by means of magic.

if a being or entity is magical and says "poof there it is" and makes a world with people in it, it surley could write a book. That is if it could write.
 

Otherright

Otherright
if a being or entity is magical and says "poof there it is" and makes a world with people in it, it surley could write a book. That is if it could write.

I get your point. As simple as the premise is, it is actually brilliant in its implication.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
I think his point is that deities, unlike music or natural order, are supposedly imbued with sentience. That if they are all-knowing and all-powerful creators of all things, you'd think they'd give proof to the peoples they created, perhaps in the form of written laws, especially if they desired those peoples to worship them.

I get that, and realize the distinction between what I was saying and what OP was saying. My point is we have those "written laws" all around us, written by human hands. Just like we now have understandings of "natural order" since we have written that stuff down ourselves and shared it with each other. We didn't create natural order, it was created (part and parcel) through us. We are proof of its existence.

In my understanding, the communication of which I think is facetiously being asked in OP is found within. Knock and door is open, type thing. And from my understanding it is (quite clearly) progressive. Such that scientific understanding would be part and parcel to how we are arriving at proof / evidence. To me, discernment is key. But before that, I would say simple / obvious realization that if you need to have it explained in human terms, you may wish to use human facilities (hands, eyes, ears) to read the message. I find this to be less direct, but still works (via discernment). Meditation and communion are, for me, more direct. Music and/or art is also more direct (communication) than writing it out. Though because I am intellectual, writing works. Writing is just much more prone, I believe, to fallibility or misinterpreting what is being conveyed.
 

Otherright

Otherright
I get that, and realize the distinction between what I was saying and what OP was saying. My point is we have those "written laws" all around us, written by human hands. Just like we now have understandings of "natural order" since we have written that stuff down ourselves and shared it with each other. We didn't create natural order, it was created (part and parcel) through us. We are proof of its existence.

In my understanding, the communication of which I think is facetiously being asked in OP is found within. Knock and door is open, type thing. And from my understanding it is (quite clearly) progressive. Such that scientific understanding would be part and parcel to how we are arriving at proof / evidence. To me, discernment is key. But before that, I would say simple / obvious realization that if you need to have it explained in human terms, you may wish to use human facilities (hands, eyes, ears) to read the message. I find this to be less direct, but still works (via discernment). Meditation and communion are, for me, more direct. Music and/or art is also more direct (communication) than writing it out. Though because I am intellectual, writing works. Writing is just much more prone, I believe, to fallibility or misinterpreting what is being conveyed.

But you agree that it was through human hands that natural order was created. That as we became more self-aware, our wisdom and understanding of the world grew?

As a writer, I have to agree. I usually take it as misinterpretation. If a person has a good command of their language, they can convey the thought easily. If the reader lacks a good command, then it will fall apart quickly.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Bertrand Russell. He said that there were Mayan gods that required 250,000 gallons of human blood to quench their thirsts. There was Odin, Thor, Zeus, Maki, a whole host of gods. All powerful. All knowing. All Dead.


yes there are thousands of past gods and no one will debate that they are man made.

the only gods not up for debate are those that are followed by the faithfull, and only the faithfull wont debate them at all.

somehow history does not become relevant to the faithfull, they loose all track of all of our past.

if one creates a god that requires to be hidden and not seen, and same said god promises something that strikes away the fear in the hearts of men and offers something not delivered in this lifetime, one cannot disprove said god.

I say this type of god and all others are illiterate because we dont have a word from them at this time. And if history is used, we never will.
 
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