Are Atheists Happy?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

water from sky to form earth?! oh i am convinced!

what it clearly says is:
Do not these disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were an integrated mass, which We then split, and from water We made all living things? Will they not believe even then?

I really mean it get a life!

I don't see why you're getting so defensive. The Quran verse matches very well with the earlier Jewish creation story. Have a look at the first part of Genesis (which I wouldn't be surprised is in the Quran somewhere, but I don't know the Quran well enough to find it):

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

In this story, you have all the elements that the Quranic verse you quoted mentioned:

- the heavens and earth were an integrated mass (the "formless" bit)
- God split them (separating the light from the darkness and the waters above from the waters below)
- God created everything from the water (by forming the land from the water, and then the plants from the land. God goes on to create fish, mammals, birds, people, etc. after the end of the quote)

And it's all from the same tradition that we know early Islam was exposed to: you don't get knowledge of Abraham, Moses and the other prophets without learning something of this version of creation.

Don't you think that it's more reasonable to figure that Muhammad drew on these earlier myths for the Quran rather than on some sort of supernatural ability?

At the very least, don't you see that it's possible that he was referring to the Genesis creation story?

So you have funny ways to escape don't you.
No god but Allah.

My mistake. I guess you can't show that the Quran wasn't written by an evil god to deceive humanity.

 

[Zhakir]

No one could reply to these miracles.No wonder islam is the fastet religion in the world.
as accepters and rejecters aren't the same now, no wonder they won't be then
Quran 4:56-57

Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for freshskins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise..But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal home:Therein shall they have companions pure and holy: We shall admit them toshades, cool and ever deepening.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No one could reply to these miracles.

Yes, except for all the replies.

No wonder islam is the fastet religion in the world.
as accepters and rejecters aren't the same now, no wonder they won't be then

Indeed. Loki has done a good job recruiting soldiers for the side of the jotunn. See you at Ragnarok!

 

[gnostic]

To Zhakir:

I don't think you know how atheist feel, let alone what an agnostic feel.

If you want to know what agnostic feel, then you will most likely get different answer from other agnostics.

And if you were to ask me for my agnostic opinion about the existence of god. Then I will provide you with this:

A god or gods may or may not exist. At this present state, I very much doubt that any deity exist, because there are no evidences or proofs to support the existence of a supreme being. So until that verifiable evidences existed today, I can only say that your god, or any god for that matter, don't exist.

As agnostic, I need proof first, before there can be any belief. And even then, with the proof, I would probably still couldn't worship this Abrahamic god, which I think he is both immoral and amoral, a ruthless and unjust tyrant, judging by the Jewish, Christian and Muslim scriptures.

 

[Alceste]

very funny show us that genesis
It exisited in no book before
what about the other hundreds signs
Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an

Not interested, and I'll tell you why: I can pick up any book - and I mean ANY book, from any time, and flip through and find you a sentence (or two, or ten, or fifty, or a hundred - depends on the length of the book) that appears to reveal a divine scientific truth, if interpreted broadly enough.

In fact, you can pick up ANY book, ask it a question, stick your finger into a random page at a random sentence, and almost always find something that seems like an answer. We do this all the time as a party game. Sometimes it's profound, sometimes it's hilarious. The human mind is a very creative interpreter of language and symbols. If you are looking for meaning, you can find it anywhere. I have a voudou friend who sees the hand of an interfering mischief god whenever he sees two crossed sticks (two crossed anything, really). We went for a walk once and saw such a pair of sticks, and he pointed at it and looked at me intensely with big wide eyes, (meaning "Exu is giving us a message"). I looked down and said "Wow! A pair of sticks!"

The difference between him and you, and the reason we got along is that he laughed at this. A friendly laugh. I laughed too. He didn't say "get a life" and get dismissive and hostile. He simply recognized that something that has meaning to him has no meaning to me, and it was pretty funny at the time.

 

[Zhakir]

Yes, except for all the replies.

You can talk, but why since everyone can see it isn't true

 

[Zhakir]

Not interested, and I'll tell you why: I can pick up any book - and I mean ANY book, from any time, and flip through and find you a sentence (or two, or ten, or fifty, or a hundred - depends on the length of the book) that appears to reveal a divine scientific truth, if interpreted broadly enough.

In fact, you can pick up ANY book, ask it a question, stick your finger into a random page at a random sentence, and almost always find something that seems like an answer. We do this all the time as a party game. Sometimes it's profound, sometimes it's hilarious. The human mind is a very creative interpreter of language and symbols. If you are looking for meaning, you can find it anywhere. I have a voudou friend who sees the hand of an interfering mischief god whenever he sees two crossed sticks (two crossed anything, really). We went for a walk once and saw such a pair of sticks, and he pointed at it and looked at me intensely with big wide eyes, (meaning "Exu is giving us a message"). I looked down and said "Wow! A pair of sticks!"

The difference between him and you, and the reason we got along is that he laughed at this. A friendly laugh. I laughed too. He didn't say "get a life" and get dismissive and hostile. He simply recognized that something that has meaning to him has no meaning to me, and it was pretty funny at the time.

Are you trying to say that people could write such a book in the 7th century?

 

[Zhakir]

To Zhakir:

I don't think you know how atheist feel, let alone what an agnostic feel.

If you want to know what agnostic feel, then you will most likely get different answer from other agnostics.

And if you were to ask me for my agnostic opinion about the existence of god. Then I will provide you with this:

A god or gods may or may not exist. At this present state, I very much doubt that any deity exist, because there are no evidences or proofs to support the existence of a supreme being. So until that verifiable evidences existed today, I can only say that your god, or any god for that matter, don't exist.

As agnostic, I need proof first, before there can be any belief. And even then, with the proof, I would probably still couldn't worship this Abrahamic god, which I think he is both immoral and amoral, a ruthless and unjust tyrant, judging by the Jewish, Christian and Muslim scriptures.

*Humans can find signs of god any time,there are proofs.
*Quran proves it's slf to be different.Allah is nothing like that, you maybe red the bible but not the quran.

 

[Zhakir]

No one could reply to these miracles.No wonder islam is the fastet religion in the world.
as accepters and rejecters aren't the same now, no wonder they won't be then
Quran 4:56-57

Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for freshskins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise..But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal home:Therein shall they have companions pure and holy: We shall admit them toshades, cool and ever deepening.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you trying to say that people could write such a book in the 7th century?

I am.

Just as they say that even a stopped clock is right twice a day, even an ancient book will sometimes have coincidental similarities to things that the author couldn't have known. This doesn't mean that the book is a reliable source of the material it presents any more than the stopped clock is a reliable way of telling time.

 

[Alceste]

talking about big bang i mean and all these in the time of muhammad
Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an

"There was something formless and perfect
before the universe was born."

"In the beginning was the Tao.
All things issue from it"

"The world is formed from the void"

"All things are born of being.
Being is born of non-being."

"The Tao gives birth to One.
One gives birth to Two.
Two gives birth to Three.
Three gives birth to all things."

-Tao te Ching (4th century BC)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No one could reply to these miracles.

Of course they can - and have. The fact that you don't like the replies is very much your issue.

 

[Zhakir]

Yeah right
about these...

ARTICLES​

WE LIVE IN AN EXPANDING UNIVERSE

THE POINT OF DEPARTURE OF OUR ODYSSEY

WE ARE CREATED OUT OF NOTHING

THE UNIVERSE IN GASEOUS STATE

PERFECT ORBITS

ATOM AND SUBATOMIC PARTICLES

BLACK HOLES:MIGHTY OATH

PULSARS

 

[Zhakir]

ALL AFLOAT IN ORBITS

CREATION IN PAIRS

RELATIVITY OF TIME ANNOUNCED 1400 YEARS AGO

THE SUN ALSO MOVES ALONG

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SUN AND THE MOON

THE ORBIT OF THE MOON

JOURNEY TO THE MOON

LAYERS OF HEAVENS

 

[gnostic]

*Quran proves it's slf to be different.Allah is nothing like that, you maybe red the bible but not the quran.

Does not the Qur'an demand that theives should have their feets or hands amputated?

Does the Qur'an not have a verse that say that a husband have the right to strike his wife for disobedient?

Does it not say to kill all pagans? Kill them all, until they surrender, repent and convert.

Sorry, but your god is ruthless tyrant as much as the Judaic-Christian god.

 

[Zhakir]

http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=13

SEX IN PLANTS
http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=16

FORMATION OF MILK
http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=19

FEMALE ANT AND COMMUNICATION BETWEEN ANIMALS

MAN CREATED FROM DUST AND WATER
OF BONES WITH FLESH
http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=55

IDENTITY ON FINGER TIPS
http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=57
http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=58
http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=68
http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=69

THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE IN THE END OF THE UNIVERSE

DEATH OF THE STARS AND THE SUN

FROM BIG BANG TO BIG CRUNCH
http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=73

 

[Alceste]

Yeah right
about these...

ARTICLES​

WE LIVE IN AN EXPANDING UNIVERSE

THE POINT OF DEPARTURE OF OUR ODYSSEY

WE ARE CREATED OUT OF NOTHING

THE UNIVERSE IN GASEOUS STATE

PERFECT ORBITS

ATOM AND SUBATOMIC PARTICLES

BLACK HOLES:MIGHTY OATH

PULSARS

I had a look. Wishful thinking, loose interpretation, and very little scientific understanding backing it up.

It's an easy trick - you can learn it yourself. Start by not understanding something, like the theory of relativity. Say all you know about it is that it has something to do with time being kind of bendy. I assume you have a lot of knowledge of your favourite book. Maybe you've read it so many times you know it by heart, so you can immediately identify whether there is anything in it which, if interpreted EXTREMELY loosely, might be about time being bendy. There! You have your "Koran miracle" or your "War and Peace" miracle, or your "Gray's Anatomy" miracle - whatever book you like best. As long as you know it well enough and are willing to take short, seemingly relevant sentences out of context, you should be able to find something in any book, provided it's long enough, that appears to relate to any scientific discovery.

It's easy, but it's boring, and it is not going to impress any non-believers. It is too obviously "magical thinking", and since atheists are fond of reason, logic and critical thinking and tend to be skeptical of magical thinking, they are unlikely to be influenced by it.

 

[Zhakir]

Could people know these facts 1400 years ago in the 7th cenury?
No

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Could people know these facts 1400 years ago in the 7th cenury?
No

Did they have to know the facts you suggest to write what they did? No.

Edit: and is any of this "scientific proof of the Quran" stuff on topic for this thread? No.

 

[Zhakir]

Does not the Qur'an demand that theives should have their feets or hands amputated?

Does the Qur'an not have a verse that say that a husband have the right to strike his wife for disobedient?

Does it not say to kill all pagans? Kill them all, until they surrender, repent and convert.

Sorry, but your god is ruthless tyrant as much as the Judaic-Christian god.

most common missunderstandings
about roppery
listen
YouTube - Islamic Solution to Robbery and Theft
about beating wife,you should be more carefull it's not like that
YouTube - Wife Beating in Islam-Exposed!!
about killing pagans untill this and that
there is nothing like that in the quran.