Are Atheists More Immoral than Non-Atheists?

[logician]

Wow.
You really like playing word games, don't you.
One, morals are not the same as laws.
Two, who's reasoning?
Three, your last sentence is based upon your faulty premise that morals are laws.

I forget the name of the definition switching tactic you attempted, but I can look it up if you want.

morals: "of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct"

Laws: "A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority."

Laws are the embodiment of the morals of a society. The two are intertwined. Again, laws based upon rationalism I think will be better than laws based upon some particular religion's view of "morals".

 

[Willamena]

Laws are the embodiment of the morals of a society. The two are intertwined. Again, laws based upon rationalism I think will be better than laws based upon some particular religion's view of "morals".

I'd go further to say that some laws are concretized morals: they are one and the same. It's debatable, though, whether our present day laws are based on rationalism.

 

[logician]

I'd go further to say that some laws are concretized morals: they are one and the same. It's debatable, though, whether our present day laws are based on rationalism.

Of course, many laws may NOT be very rational, depending on how they came into being. Dictatorships may have very cruel and unfair laws(high taxes, prison for very minor infractions), made to suit the whims of whoever is in charge.

 

[Bishadi]

*waits for "End Of The World" prediction*

what's your opinion on that?

do you sense it?

 

[Alceste]

what's your opinion on that?

do you sense it?

I sense change. I also know that many people "sense" destruction or annhilation when confronted with change. For example, when I moved to the UK I had such a vivid dream of death stalking me I actually left instructions with a friend to tell my parents I died happy and fulfilled if my plane crashed. But, as it turned out I just moved. * shrug *. That's how it goes. The ego fears change and the subconscious equates it with death.

 

[Heneni]

Actually the code of conduct for atheists is prescribed by our conscience. Don't Christians have these?

I think I would greatly prefer my own destruction to eternity in the company of nothing but Christians, no contest.

Yes atheists have a conscience, but is it working? Of course it is, but it is not working with regards to the the kingdom of god. So...a chrisitians conscience helps them to understand when they are about to or have broken the law of christ, which is the law of love.

An atheist does not have a conscience that helps it understand or realise if or when they have broken the law of christ, so their conscience is working in a different way. It works according to their own moral code, or their own law, and/or the law of a human goverment.

If you greatly prefer you own destruction than eternity in the presence of christians, then you wish will certainly be granted. I myself do not wish to share eternity with an bunch of hateful, judgmental and nasty christians. But then...are they christians?

I dont focus on these issue...I'll let god be the judge between one person and the next. If anything i greatly prefer to spend enternity with jesus who is the hero of my life, and my saviour. It is completely ludicrous to expect somebody to love jesus if they dont recognise him as a saviour.

Even people who do recognise jesus as the saviour, love him, like you love your cat, or you love peanut butter sandwiches.

Perhaps then...they will also be less happy to see him on his return, as those who dont love him at all.

God bless
Heneni

 

[Alceste]

Yes atheists have a conscience, but is it working? Of course it is, but it is not working with regards to the the kingdom of god.

Says who? Did Jesus tell you this himself? Can't your omnipotent God ensure that the human conscience has the capacity to function perfectly well regardless of a person's culture and upbringing?

If your god can do this and chooses not to, then he apparently doesn't have much of a conscience himself, since the failure to design mankind (and womankind) with an inherent, fully functioning conscience would be guaranteed to create needless suffering. It's the equivalent of being a parent in a position to prevent one child from seriously harming another and choosing not to.

An atheist does not have a conscience that helps it understand or realise if or when they have broken the law of christ.

I would argue that neither do most Christians.

If you greatly prefer you own destruction than eternity in the presence of christians, then you wish will certainly be granted. I myself do not wish to share eternity with an bunch of hateful, judgmental and nasty christians. But then...are they christians?

My greatest joy in life is diversity. Even an afternoon with a group of people who have only one opinion between them is intolerable to me. Any afterlife I would care to partake in would include people of all faiths, no faith and infinite variations between. And not just that, but all the creatures of the sky and sea. What would be the point of an afterlife where I could not enjoy the sight of a cormorant drying its wings, or dragonflies dancing in a beam of sunlight? Only Christians, Jesus and God, sitting forever on a featureless cloud? That sounds exactly like like hell to me. The only other thing it would need would be this brass band.

I dont focus on these issue...I'll let god be the judge between one person and the next.

With respect, you are not "letting god be the judge" when you claim that an atheist can not have a fully functioning conscience, or be a decent enough person to join the believers in the afterlife. I have no objection to being judged by God, if by some cosmic joke there actually turns out to be such an entity. What I refuse to accept is the judgment of people who, like yourself and (presumably) your church, claim they are superior to everyone else, or more deserving of love, simply because of their religious beliefs.

If anything i greatly prefer to spend enternity with jesus who is the hero of my life, and my saviour. It is completely ludicrous to expect somebody to love jesus if they dont recognise him as a saviour.

On the contrary. Plenty of people love Jesus perfectly well - as a teacher, philosopher, revolutionary, or even just as a myth. That might not be your thing, but I'd stop short of calling it "ludicrous". In many cases it's quite sincere. Tipping the tables of the money lenders is particularly dear to my heart. We need more like him these days.

 

[Jeremiah]

So, someone actually wrote down the theory, put it in a pan, put it in the oven and baked it for some length of time? Or did you mean something like "and I mean that truly"?

Also, moral relativism only says that each person has their own morality based on their unique interpretation of the world.

Go pick a fight somewhere else.

 

[Jeremiah]

Hopefully you can get back soon with the missing details.

Cyborgs.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'd go further to say that some laws are concretized morals: they are one and the same. It's debatable, though, whether our present day laws are based on rationalism.

To be continued.....

 

[McBell]

Cyborgs.

Guess not.

 

[Jeremiah]

Guess not.

I put allot of thought into that answer. You see this is exactly what I am getting at. How much thought have you given to cyborgs? Really? Part machine, part flesh; part humanity and part programming, that about sums ethics right up. Sure there are some incongruities, but it’s a fairly good comparison. Heck, cyborgs can even connect via the information superhighway and share and spread new programming. A society of cyborgs could be influenced by mass application of programming updates. Of course machines have no ambition to write new programs or anything emotional; but humans do, and that is why cyborgs are vastly superior to androids.

Really the intricacies of the cyborg goes allot deeper then that. I could write pages on it, perhaps -and just a suggestion- you should give cyborgs a little more thought.

You know, you have to wonder, in a society ruled by cyborgs, what would it mean to be human? Like a full human; is that even possible? And if so what does that mean?

 

[Doodlebug02]

I don't believe that Atheists are more immoral that Theists. I believe that Atheists can be just as moral and sometimes even more moral than Theists. It all depends on the person.

 

[my opinion]

I am neither religious or Atheist but the observation that jumps out at me is that the religious are much more immoral than the atheists. They have a list of what to do and not what to do, they have been told my their god what is right and what is wrong, yet most have committed a sin, regardless of the size of it. It would be futile to say you haven't. So here you have a direct line of communication with your creator who has laid down your rules, and yet you break those rules. That is enormous if you actually hold the belief of god and those rules.
I don't propose to know every religious person...but I am surrounded by them...all types..within my life, and other activities,and I see the breaking of rules all of the time.
It would be very far fetched to say that I only know the 'bad' ones. The mere act of judging others would put most in the immoral category- (Romans 2)

 

[stacey bo bacey]

That was a really stupid analogy, first of all.

Second, it's not true. And numero tres...why in the world do most believers think this?! It's so whacked out...I don't get it!

 

[my opinion]

That was a really stupid analogy, first of all.

What analogy?

Second, it's not true.

What's not?

And numero tres...why in the world do most believers think this?! It's so whacked out...I don't get it!

What are you referring to? It helps to quote.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

What analogy?


What's not?


What are you referring to? It helps to quote.

Either I was drunk when I wrote that or you completely edited your post because I definitely remember there being an analogy and me thinking, "Huh? That's really stupid."

 

[my opinion]

Actually the code of conduct for atheists is prescribed by our conscience. Don't Christians have these?

Perfect!

 

[ChristineES]

Believe it or not, Christians do have a conscience. I am not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

 

[my opinion]

Believe it or not, Christians do have a conscience. I am not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

It's hard to come to that conclusion sometimes though...in my experience, and I have spent a considerable amount of time with different religions, trying in earnest to 'get it'
and I have seen a lot of immoral things. I know the definition of immoral is different to a lot of people, but if we are going to take, for example, the ten commandents, then we do know what Christ's thinks is immoral and we know what he expects from people calling themselves Christians. And it does not stop Christians breaking these commandents. So a Christian having an extra marital affair is far more immoral than an Athiest having one, because the Christian has been commanded not to, by, what he considers to be the one true almighty God.

I know you have heard it before and probably will again: you are not the typical Christian. You are not hostile or angry, you are constructive with your posts, typically behaving in a Christ like manner. This is just not true of many, many Christians. They think they are a Christian because they say so. But their behaviour gives them away. Should they behave better than I do? Yes they should, because I am not holding myself up to be a Christian, and therefore like Christ. This is the hypocrisy that I see everywhere.
I don't know if it is just you, or if your attitude and behaviour is typical of all people in your faith, but you really are not the norm when it comes to Christians.Not all of course, but many, many. If I come across 10 tigers, and get bitten by 9 of them I am going to say tigers bite, it's the same with my attitude towards Christians.