Are babies atheist?

[Jeremiahcp]

That wasn't the OED, this is the OED

1. One who denies or disbelieves the existence of a God.

[?1555 Coverdale tr. Hope of Faythful Pref. f. iiiv Eate we and drink we lustely, tomorow we shal dy. which al ye Epicures protest openly, & the Italian atheoi.]
1571 A. Golding in tr. J. Calvin Psalmes of Dauid with Comm. Ep. Ded. sig. *.iii The Atheistes which say..there is no God.
1604 S. Rowlands Looke to It sig. C4 Thou damned Athist..That doest deny his power which did create thee.
1699 Ld. Shaftesbury Inq. conc. Virtue i. i. 8 To believe nothing of a designing Principle or Mind, nor any cause or measure or rule of things, but Chance..is to be a perfect Atheist.
1876 W. E. Gladstone in Contemp. Rev. June 22 By the Atheist I understand the man who not only holds off, like the sceptic, from the affirmative, but who drives himself, or is driven, to the negative assertion in regard to the whole Unseen, or to the existence of God.

2. One who practically denies the existence of a God by disregard of moral obligation to Him; a godless man.

1577 M. Hanmer tr. Bp. Eusebius in Aunc. Eccl. Hist. iv. xiii. 63 The opinion which they conceaue of you, to be Atheists, or godlesse men.
1656 T. Stanley Hist. Philos. II. viii. 93 An Atheist is taken two waies, for him who is an Enemy to the Gods, and for him who believeth there are no Gods.
1667 Milton Paradise Lost i. 495 When the Priest Turns Atheist, as did Ely's Sons.
1827 J. C. Hare & A. W. Hare Guesses at Truth I. 65 Practically every man is an Atheist, who lives without God in the world.


3. Atheistic, impious.
1667 Milton Paradise Lost vi. 370 The Atheist crew.
1821 J. G. Lockhart Valerius II. xi. 316 Borne from its wounded breast an atheist cry Hath pierced the upper and the nether sky.

It is powered by Oxford. I also checked into that difference. "Living" means it is changing and probably gets updated more often.

 

[Thief]

No, atheism is certainly not a declaration. It is actually the absence of a declaration. It applies to anyone who does not believe in any deities.

a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun

1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

lack
lak/
noun

1. the state of being without or not having enough of something.

and such people lack belief for some reason

babies do not have that level of thought
and are not capable of a decision or declaration

 

[Augustus]

It is powered by Oxford. I also checked into that difference. "Living" means it is changing and probably gets updated more often.

True dat.

 

[Curious George]

I am sorry, but I don't really care about your personal take on the word. Words are defined by common usages not by "logic." I mean all you are doing is displaying how little you actually understand the English language. This is why I don't care for semantical debates, as so many of you think language is comprised of perfect shapes that you plug nicely in a corresponding holes, you think you know what you are talking about, but you actually don't have a clue. Language is more like water, it goes all over the place, it makes a mess, and you just have to go with the flow. Actually understanding the full use of most words is more involved than just tying to shove it into the right hole.

Is that an equivocation? I agree that language is arbitrary at some level. However, language is a system designed to communicate. To that end, we can create a value system. Therefore, we ought to use the most efficient means to communicate. Having internal consistency with a language system allows for more efficient communication. Therefore, while language systems might have logical inconsistencies within those systems, they should be eliminated to better achieve the goal of language. You lack of understanding language and systems is noted.

Cheers

 

[Curious George]

I was hoping for a more conceptual debate.

Sure you were. It is an arbitrary concept.

 

[Curious George]

That word, it does not mean what you think it means.

Great allusion, love that movie.

I will take that as you got nothing.

 

[Curious George]

What are you limiting belief to? In atheism that belief is limited to just one device, god. There are many other beliefs for reasons you would consider triviality or profound.

To the proposition god exists.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Great allusion, love that movie.

I will take that as you got nothing.

Like begets like.

 

[Curious George]

Like begets like.

Well, go ahead and reread it. If you need any help, just ask.

Cheers.

 

[leibowde84]

That's not technically correct. An atheist is "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods." Babies have no concept of God or gods.

Because they don't have any concept of God or gods, they "lack belief in the existence of God or gods."

They don't need to have a concept of God or gods to lack belief in them. Actually, by definition, everyone who lacks a concept of God or gods necessarily lacks belief in God or gods. To "lack" means to be "without". I, for example, lack belief in every god I am not familiar with. There is no requirement of knowledge of concept to lack belief in something.

 

[leibowde84]

you are not in control here....

the correct option.....atheism is a declaration

You've said that many times without providing any evidence whatsoever.

How is a declaration necessary to merely be without a belief. Everyone who is unfamiliar with the concept of God (like babies) is, necessarily, without belief in God. No declaration is necessary.

You are obviously using a new definition of the term "atheism" that doesn't include being "without belief in the existence of God or gods." Can you provide a link to that definition?

 

[leibowde84]

and such people lack belief for some reason

babies do not have that level of thought
and are not capable of a decision or declaration

No decision or declaration is necessary to be considered an atheist according to the meaning of the term. By definition (not by declaration or decision) babies are atheists, as they are without belief in the existence of God or gods. There is no requirement for declaration or decision according to the definition of the term "atheism".

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Well, go ahead and reread it. If you need any help, just ask.

Cheers.

The comment in question, aside from being a far sight from...what you would term 'logical', and aside from being nonsense, did not actually address the post it was purported to be a response to in any meaningful way.

If I would ask for any help from you, it would be a simple request for you to try to do better next time. Thanks in advance.

 

[Curious George]

The comment in question, aside from being a far sight from...what you would term 'logical', and aside from being nonsense, did not actually address the post it was purported to be a response to in any meaningful way.

If I would ask for any help from you, it would be a simple request for you to try to do better next time. Thanks in advance.

I understand you feel that way. I meant to go ahead and reread all of my comments in this thread, because it is obvious that, while you do not like my opinion, you fail to understand it. Sometimes things we do not understand take another read through.

But if the reason we don't understand it, is because it doean't make sense, then we can articulate why it doesn't make sense. If we cannot do this, then it is likely our comprehension that is lacking. This doesn't mean that what we are trying to comprehend doesn't also lack; this just means that the comprehension issue needs to resolved prior to addressing that which we are trying to comprehend.

So, I am completely aware that I may be wrong. But until someone can articulate a flaw in the reasoning, I will not know. You tried, but had nothing. It is ok. I trust that you are a smart fellow, and with a little more effort will surely comprehend the discussion and have something beneficial to offer.

Cheers

 

[leibowde84]

So let us apply your logic.

A-theism

Something that is not theism.

A-theist

Something that is not theist

What is a theist: someone who believes god exists.

Therefore a-theist is something that is not someone who believes in god.

Therfore rocks are atheists.

Satisfied?

The prefix "a" in this context means "to be without". A "theist" is a person who believes in the existence of at least one deity. An "atheist" is a person who is "without theism" or is "without a belief in any deities". Thus, a baby (or anyone unfamiliar with the concept of gods) would technically fall under the classification "atheist". Simple as that.

 

[Curious George]

The prefix "a" in this context means "to be without". A "theist" is a person who believes in the existence of at least one deity. An "atheist" is a person who is "without theism" or is "without a belief in any deities". Thus, a baby (or anyone unfamiliar with the concept of gods) would technically fall under the classification "atheist". Simple as that.

So you are asking for a literal translation of a- with regard to atheism and theism, and then defining atheist relative to atheism?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I understand you feel that way. I meant to go ahead and reread all of my comments in this thread, because it is obvious that, while you do not like my opinion, you fail to understand it. Sometimes things we do not understand take another read through.

But if the reason we don't understand it, is because it doean't make sense, then we can articulate why it doesn't make sense. If we cannot do this, then it is likely our comprehension that is lacking. This doesn't mean that what we are trying to comprehend doesn't also lack; this just means that the comprehension issue needs to resolved prior to addressing that which we are trying to comprehend.

So, I am completely aware that I may be wrong. But until someone can articulate a flaw in the reasoning, I will not know. You tried, but had nothing. It is ok. I trust that you are a smart fellow, and with a little more effort will surely comprehend the discussion and have something beneficial to offer.

Cheers

That's reasonable. User @leibowde84 reitterated the point I, and others have made well enough.

 

[Curious George]

That's reasonable. User @leibowde84 reitterated the point I, and others have made well enough.

Except his point is different from the one you made. Perhaps you should reread what you wrote and what I replied.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Except his point is different from the one you made. Perhaps you should reread what you wrote and what I replied.

I find some people's persistence in this matter to be amusing. Asymmetrical means something lacks symmetry. Apolitical means someone abstains from politics. Asymptomatic means without symptoms.

But atheist, rather than the obvious 'without theism', simply HAS to mean more than that, because......reasons.

Prefix Meaning Example(Greek)
a, an

without, not

asexual, amoral, anarchy, anhydrous, Anabaptist, anachronism

The prefix "a" in this context means "to be without". A "theist" is a person who believes in the existence of at least one deity. An "atheist" is a person who is "without theism" or is "without a belief in any deities". Thus, a baby (or anyone unfamiliar with the concept of gods) would technically fall under the classification "atheist". Simple as that.

Exactly the same. I guess we can chalk this up to a reading comprehension misfire on your part.

 

[Willamena]

Because they don't have any concept of God or gods, they "lack belief in the existence of God or gods."

They don't need to have a concept of God or gods to lack belief in them. Actually, by definition, everyone who lacks a concept of God or gods necessarily lacks belief in God or gods. To "lack" means to be "without". I, for example, lack belief in every god I am not familiar with. There is no requirement of knowledge of concept to lack belief in something.

Fine, but I was arguing against what you said, when you said, "they aren't theists, then they are, by definition, atheist."