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Are babies atheist?

Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
leibowde84 said:
I agree with all of this except for your claim that babies are not atheists, as you haven't provided any reasoning whatsoever to back up your claim that the definition of atheism does not cover babies. Nothing you wrote here has anything to do with the question at hand, though.

The term "atheism" covers everyone who lacks belief in the existence of gods. To "lack" means to "be without". To "be without theism" only requires that a person not believe in the existence of God or gods. There is no requirement for a declaration of any kind. Everyone who is ignorant of the concept of deities is, by definition, an atheist.

Now, what part of my argument are you having trouble with? What specifically are you claiming isn't true?
Click to expand...
your stubbornness isn't working

atheism is a decision
and a declaration

the unaware are not included in your crusade
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Thief said:
your stubbornness isn't working

atheism is a decision
and a declaration

the unaware are not included in your crusade
Click to expand...
My stubbornness?! You haven't provided any reasoning as to why those who "lack belief in the existence of God or gods" aren't included in the definition of the term "atheism" when the definition clearly and explicitly includes them. You continue to claim that atheism is a declaration and a choice, yet there is nothing in the definition that requires this. Here is the definition of the term. Can you provide any reasoning for your claims that those who lack belief are not included and that atheism is necessarily a declaration?

a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
  1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
So if an adult is "without theism," it's because he's ignorant of gods.

... which is what you said for babies.
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Not everyone believes that "a belief in God or gods" is an ontological state of affairs. Belief and knowledge are matters of an epistemic model of the world. To be "without belief in God or gods" is to have no God or gods in your worldview, which describes the baby.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
Not everyone believes that "a belief in God or gods" is an ontological state of affairs. Belief and knowledge are matters of an epistemic model of the world. To be "without belief in God or gods" is to have no God or gods in your worldview, which describes the baby.
Click to expand...
So, how do you explain the millions of people who are "without belief in God or gods", but are very aware and understand clearly the concept of gods?
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
leibowde84 said:
My stubbornness?! You haven't provided any reasoning as to why those who "lack belief in the existence of God or gods" aren't included in the definition of the term "atheism" when the definition clearly and explicitly includes them. You continue to claim that atheism is a declaration and a choice, yet there is nothing in the definition that requires this. Here is the definition of the term. Can you provide any reasoning for your claims that those who lack belief are not included and that atheism is necessarily a declaration?

a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
  1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Click to expand...
that lack....is a decision
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Thief said:
that lack....is a decision
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. You don't know what the word "lack" means. In this context, "lack belief" means "to be without belief".

lack
lak/
noun
  1. the state of being without or not having enough of something.
Obviously, "to be without" something simply means to not have it. "Atheism" includes those who merely lack theism or are without theism ... a.k.a. everyone who is not a theist (without theism). Thus, anyone who does not believe in the existence of God or gods is, technically speaking, an "atheist", which includes babies. And, of course, because of this, there is no requirement for any kind of declaration "to be without belief in the existence of God or gods."
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
There is no God or gods in their worldview.
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Very true. It doesn't matter though. There is no requirement to have God or gods in your worldview to be considered an atheist. All that is necessary is to be without belief in the existence of God or gods.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
Very true. It doesn't matter though. There is no requirement to have God or gods in your worldview to be considered an atheist. All that is necessary is to be without belief in the existence of God or gods.
Click to expand...
You are equivocating. To be without belief in God or gods is to be without a God or gods in one's worldview.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
leibowde84 said:
Oh, I see. You don't know what the word "lack" means. In this context, "lack belief" means "to be without belief".

lack
lak/
noun
  1. the state of being without or not having enough of something.
Obviously, "to be without" something simply means to not have it. "Atheism" includes those who merely lack theism or are without theism ... a.k.a. everyone who is not a theist (without theism). Thus, anyone who does not believe in the existence of God or gods is, technically speaking, an "atheist", which includes babies. And, of course, because of this, there is no requirement for any kind of declaration "to be without belief in the existence of God or gods."
Click to expand...
lacking...brought on by a decision
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I now suspect an underlying discussion.....
has it been presented?

if babies are atheists.......
then people who ARE atheists are NOT RESPONSIBLE for their 'lack of belief'!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

omg!
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
What do you mean by being "without a God or gods in one's worldview"?
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The worldview is the set of beliefs about the world that comprise a person's "cognative orientation"*. Hence what I mean by being without God or gods in one's worldview is to lack belief in God or gods.

*Wikipedia
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
The worldview is the set of beliefs about the world that comprise a person's "cognative orientation"*. Hence what I mean by being without God or gods in one's worldview is to lack belief in God or gods.

*Wikipedia
Click to expand...
OK, but this doesn't go against anything I've said thus far. Babies don't have God or gods in their worldview. They lack belief in the existence of God or gods, as they are without that belief. Thus, they are "atheist".
 
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