Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[CG Didymus]

"The House of Justice states in its letter of 19 April, 2001 to an individual accompanying the Memorandum of the Research Department of the same date, that: "...there can be no doubt that promise of `Abdu'l-Bahá has now been fulfilled, and the unity of nations securely established in the century now concluded."

Yes but in 2001 he claimed the prophecy has been fulfilled? Since 2001 has the unity of nations being securely established now concluded? Things have gotten far worse since that time? There is a war going on and unrest is brewing in several other areas? This is not the prophecy being "concluded"? Is there any policing here to what religions will freely claim as "fulfilled prophecy"? This is what cults do.
Nothing here involves all nations disarming, nothing even indicates that direction is remotely possible?

We have this current war, issues with China, North Korea and the Middle East is still a mess. You think that sounds like a rose bush?

It's been fulfilled? We're living in the lessor peace?

 

[CG Didymus]

There was a stipulation as to who the Guardian could appoint.

Unfortunatly there was not one he could appoint.

Luckily, the Covenant allowed for that.

Regards Tony

Like I said, it wasn't incumbent after all. He had no kids. So, he didn't even try to make an heir to the throne. And what about relatives? None of them were good enough? Which ones weren't already declared covenant breakers? So, one guardian and that's it? And that was the original plan? To have no guardian before there was a UHJ? And really, only blood relatives? And there was a second or third cousin that could have taken the job?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, we all know that each Christian group has a different take on what the NT says. My personal favorite are the snake handlers. They really, really take the NT literally. Then what do other Christians tell them? That those verses about handing snakes are based on verses that aren't found in the oldest manuscripts. Ironic huh. Christians pointing out that things were added in. Then with those verses, and verses where Jesus says to pluck out your eyes if they offend you, they don't take those literally but figuratively. Again, ironic huh.

And we all know that the Catholic Church made themselves into the authority. Then they abused it and lost it. So, all Christians can do is use the Bible as their authority. And Baha'is poke all sorts of holes into its authority by saying, "It is not wholly authentic." Well, that's no surprise to most of us. That's what we've been saying all along. Religions just make up stuff, like laws and moral codes, and then attribute them to an unknowable, unseen, unprovable God.

And we're supposed to obey those rules because some guy said God told him to give those laws and rules? No, we want proof of this God. Because we have been fooled before and won't be fooled again, no, no. And in a lot of ways, out with the old religion and in moves another one. Why should we trust this one as being any better or any different than the old one? And that's the problem you Baha'is face. We are very skeptical and need some tangible proof before we believe. And you don't have it. And no his writings are proof. We've read some of them and have problems with some of the things he says.

All I can say CG, is that to me, there is all the proof.of all the atoms in the universe, nay all God's creation and worlds, that attest of the Message of Baha’u’llah, that is in that reality, the Message of all the Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Like I said, it wasn't incumbent after all. He had no kids. So, he didn't even try to make an heir to the throne. And what about relatives? None of them were good enough? Which ones weren't already declared covenant breakers? So, one guardian and that's it? And that was the original plan? To have no guardian before there was a UHJ? And really, only blood relatives? And there was a second or third cousin that could have taken the job?

It unfolded according to our capacity CG, it can unfold in no other manner, as God allows our free will.

It is up to find God in the mess we can make of Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

No, that isn't a sound prediction at all? You are talking about the UN as if it's the prophecy meanwhile there is an actual war happening? Millions of people are suffering greatly while you are all "yay the prophecy"?
Islam is going to be the leading religion by 2050. China (hello? are you aware of anything outside made-up text) is getting aggressive and wants Taiwan, North Korea is home to some of the worst crimes against humanity since WW2?
This is the worst confirmation bias ever? Why don't you demonstrate that religion is real by praying 3 times today and ending the war and having North Korea become stable by Sunday? Instead of silly vague prophecies please make some magic happen. Go.

I really think the Baha'is prophesies include a nuclear war. If that happens, I wonder, are the Baha'is really in a position to lead the world and help bring about peace and unity? I don't think they are. But what is going to be left after a nuclear war? Mad Max and several warring tribes? Or, as the Baha'is seem to think, people that can now come together, disarm and live as one people on one devastated, radioactive planet?

Oh, but you probably know... I've questioned the Baha'is on when the Messiah/Promised One comes... before all the horrible tribulations or after? I'm thinking that things get really bad, to the point of extinction, and then the Christ comes. Baha'is have him come and die, and since he was rejected, then the world goes through the trials and tribulations. Do you have any ideas and thoughts on this?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's been fulfilled? We're living in the lessor peace?

The prophecy is this CG.

"....The fifth candle is the unity of nations—a unity which in this century will be securely established, causing all the peoples of the world to regard themselves as citizens of one common fatherland...."

That goes back to my reply to you that it was established in 1945.

The fact we are one people on one planet, has indeed permeated the mind of mankind, the younger generations see the world globally.

We are still learning this lesson, still rolling up National predudices and old world order thoughts of war.

Look how many Nations supported Ukraine, then look at the ones that still hold to old world order values.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I wonder, are the Baha'is really in a position to lead the world and help bring about peace and unity? I

Not sure how many times we have to say that is naught to do with the lesser peace CG.

It will be a unity built by elected representatives of the Nations.

The persecutions of the Baha'i Faith have not yet started CG. My thought is these denunciations from pulpits about the bahai will most likely happen in the building of the Lesser Peace. It may also involve the suppression of religion on a greater scale.

There is only one way to get any idea about this, there are 1000's of Writings to pursue.

We should not get bogged down on this, we need to build strong and loving communities.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'is have him come and die, and since he was rejected, then the world goes through the trials and tribulations. Do you have any ideas and thoughts on this?

In all the past scriptures is there any time a Messenger came after the tribulations and everyone then accepted a Messenger?

My take on the history is that God always gives us the chance of embracing change, and when the majority reject, fair warning is part of the Message.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

Just because someone has seen psycogist or psychiatrist does not mean they have mental issue. It could mean they went through some difficulties, and became depressed or upset. So they wanted getting help from a doctor.
I would rather just focus on the topic of thread...

Depression over a sustained period is a mental health issue.

If you feel depressed even during times when people would ordinarily feel happy that is a mental health issue and there are medications to help treat it.

In my opinion.

 

[CG Didymus]

It's a good point. Would you consider Baha'i to be the Islamic analog of Mormonism?

Maybe more like the Messianic Jews. They keep what they can of Judaism and add Jesus to it. The beliefs about Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Jesus all seem to be taken directly from Islam. And then add this Hud and Salih as being prophets. I had never heard of them, but they are mentioned in the Quran. Then the Baha'is have obligatory prayers and a sun rise to sunset fast during one of their months... And then basing everything around "God's" laws.

 

[KWED]

Just because someone has seen psycogist or psychiatrist does not mean they have mental issue.

Often a reasonable indication.

It could mean they went through some difficulties, and became depressed or upset. So they wanted getting help from a doctor.

Again, often indicators of mental health issues.

I would rather just focus on the topic of thread...

Me too, but I try to avoid applying extra stress on people who may be experiencing mental health issues. They often have enough to cope with without people dismantling their coping mechanisms. I will no longer be repeatedly explaining the flaws in their cognitive processes. I would encourage others to do likewise.

 

[CG Didymus]

I would have cared if there was some evidence to satisfy me. I do not consider advertising blurbs as proof.
If that is true, do you believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster or Pink Unicorns? And do you believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the mahdi sent by Allah? He had just as much proof as the Iranian had, his own talk and writings. There, when we talk of proof, you wash your hands. But this entity never gave any proof of his existence.
Well as I said, Bahai logic and that of the rest of the world's peoples differs.
What is it? His sweet talk. Even the frauds do that. They talk sweet. Actually, One should be suspicious of too much of sweet talk.

If it was only "sweet" talk. But they say that they will eventually rule the world... all people will be one and have one religion.

Baha’u’llah envisioned a time in the future when the peoples of the world will live together in peace and unity as members of one faith. Universal justice will be established based on adherence to the law of God.
​

 

[CG Didymus]

It unfolded according to our capacity CG, it can unfold in no other manner, as God allows our free will.

It is up to find God in the mess we can make of Faith.

Regards Tony

So, there was no second or third cousin that could take over the guardianship?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If it was only "sweet" talk. But they say that they will eventually rule the world... all people will be one and have one religion.

Baha’u’llah envisioned a time in the future when the peoples of the world will live together in peace and unity as members of one faith. Universal justice will be established based on adherence to the law of God.
​

I see it is sad people paint a future with the predudices we have had built in the past and hold today, when the future is yet to be known.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

He will do that huh? Instead in his time we're gone from rifles and canons to nuclear weapons and rockets. That's going in the opposite direction as prophesied.

Please note that Isaiah never said when or how this prophecy would be fulfilled.

 

[Trailblazer]

Where do you see the collapse of Old World Order, it is just the same if not worse.

The Old World Order is collapsing and it is worse than ever, that is the point.

 

[Trailblazer]

I was not aware of this.
As a rule I try to avoid dismantling the belief systems or coping mechanisms of people with mental heath issues.
Good luck.

Just because I have been to myriad psychologists and counselors does not mean I have mental health issues now. That is illogical.

I have no mental health issues now. I do not even qualify for counseling under my health insurance since all my issues were resolved a long time ago.

How about you? Just because you do not see a psychologist or a counselor that does not mean you have no mental health issues. That is illogical.

 

[CG Didymus]

In all the past scriptures is there any time a Messenger came after the tribulations and everyone then accepted a Messenger?

My take on the history is that God always gives us the chance of embracing change, and when the majority reject, fair warning is part of the Message.

Regards Tony

One thing, no matter what the past scriptures said, it usually isn't taken literal by Baha'is. Does Kalki come and destroy the wicked? Does the Messiah? Does Maitreya? Does Jesus? It sounds like things get bad, real bad, and that's when the "Lord" comes and fixes. You got some scripture verses that have it the other way?

Oh, and God, if he's for real, should know we're not going to listen to some guy claiming to be sent by God. And how many people have listened to some guy, and he turns out to be some crackpot? Like I'm totally sure that all the leaders Baha'u'llah sent letters to were going to think he was a messenger from God. A few plagues. An earthquake or two, then maybe they would have believed. And God did that before. Why not this time?

Oh yeah, he probably didn't do that before. The story about the plagues was probably fictional and meant to be symbolic. So, we have nothing. No proof. Just a man's word, "I am from God?" Ah, but there was proof. Most of them lost their rulership. Amazing! What a prophecy! No, eventually all of them would have lost their rulership. Ah, but will there be plagues? Yes, God is going to do that. But not to those rulers during his time. To us. Wars and more wars. More pandemics. More natural disasters. Until, like Pharoah, we give in and say, "Surely, this Baha'u'llah was from God."

Gee, thanks God. Is killing and torturing people the only way you have to prove your existence? But, if those bad things continue after all people have given in to his will, then what? Was it really God? Or just that people fight, and plagues and natural disasters happen?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, there was no second or third cousin that could take over the guardianship?

There was no one available that had not broken the covenant. Thus the line of the Guardian ended with Shoghi Effendi.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Gee, thanks God. Is killing and torturing people the only way you have to prove your existence? But, if those bad things continue after all people have given in to his will, then what? Was it really God? Or just that people fight, and plagues and natural disasters happen?

The sunrises every day CG, it only offers light.

The darkness is our choice, it is us that chooses darkness over the light.

Regards Tony