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Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Well, I see you probably want to see a miracle to believe. Well, sorry, I don't have what you look for.
No, I merely want some kind of evidence for the claims you are making. Something that makes it a reasonable possibility rather that entirely unlikely.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
But if this humanity generation does not become upright, God may want to replace it with a better humanity in the future.
If god keeps creating a humanity that he keeps having to destroy and try again, perhaps god isn't very good at creating stuff?
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
If god keeps creating a humanity that he keeps having to destroy and try again, perhaps god isn't very good at creating stuff?
He replaces it with a better one.
If you mean, why from begining He did not create one absolutely perfect, then, the answer is, perfecting creation is a gradual process.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
If god keeps creating a humanity that he keeps having to destroy and try again, perhaps god isn't very good at creating stuff?
But I did. I said Book of Iqan written in two days, by a Peson who did not have education or learnings in religion.
To me, it is a clear evidence that Bahaullah had innate knowledge.
Remember, I asked, where did Bahaullah got His knowledge according to historical evidences? I have not seen anyone here including yourself to provide an answer for that. So, the ball is in your side. I'm not looking for conjecture or guesses. I'm looking for an answer based on investigation of truth.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Sheldon said:
Have you ever heard of Occam's razor? Or an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy?
That's not how I would answer a historical question.

Cool, but that is not remotely what I asked now is it? Though I strongly infer from your response that you either do not know, or maybe you just don't want to honestly address what was coming next.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Cool, but that is not remotely what I asked now is it? Though I strongly infer from your response that you either do not know, or maybe you just don't want to honestly address what was coming next.
Why did you ask me that question though? Instead of responding to my question, which was "If Baha'u'llah did not have religious education, how was He aware of all those concepts in other religions",
You ask another question.
Do you see how you avoid the actual discussion by derailing it?
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Where do you see the collapse of Old World Order, it is just the same if not worse.
@Sheldon

I see it is in the hearts of the majority of people, who are embracing the concepts of a new world order, where the rights of the undividual are upheld.

That was not my question? Though these kinds of woolly metaphors make my teeth itch sorry. However, you don't know what the majority of people think or want, that's a given; and human rights are unlikely to be championed by wishful thinking, unevidenced claims about what deities want, and worse of all, the belief that subjective beliefs have tapped into absolute truths from a perfect deity.

the world of mankind no longer tolerates tyrants

It's hard to imagine a more obviously false claim.

Religious orthodoxy and totalitarian governments were put on notice and their power of influence was taken away,

Well it was hard, but you seem to be on a roll here?

The instigators of the Ukraine crisis are an example of minds that are part of that diminishing old world order.

Wow, one demonstrably false claim after another. The largest country on earth led by a totalitarian dictator, in power for over 2 decades, and courted by the western powers for grubby financial gain, and most populated country on earth, with the fastest growing economy for many years, again led by a totalitarian dictator, in a one party state. There are countless others, but these two are in the ascendancy, not on the decline.

Materialistic aspirations is also part of the old world order,

I can't catch my breath, I've never seen anyone post so many obviously false claims in a single post? Putin's aggression to restore (in his mind) the former glory of a Russian super state, is nothing new, nor are world powers exchanging positions, these are inevitable consequences of the fluctuating fortunes and ambitions of nations and political leaders, and nothing supernatural, or more importantly any extant deity, is required to explain any of it.
 
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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
why do you think anyone is able to recognize and distinguish between word of God and human?

It's not that the skeptic believes this. It's that Bahai's say they can make that distinction. The skeptic keeps asking the Baha'i why he thinks he can recognize a deity in the words offered as evidence of one. I haven't seen an answer to that yet, but I'll be asking for one in just a moment.

Scripture is not 'other people's opinions' since a Manifestation is God is not 'other people.'

You would be a prime example of somebody who says that the words of messengers are evidence of a God. Perhaps you can answer the gentleman's question for him - how you know or why do you believe that a person claiming to have a message from a deity is not simply some person with an opinion? How do you know that I'm not a messenger of God? Maybe there are several posting here. Please explain to the gentleman how you know that none of us are messengers of God. According to you, God has no duty to you or me or anybody else to make the source of the message clear. He'd like know your test. So would I. I don't see where you have any criteria for making such a judgment regarding whether the source of a statement is human or divine.

No, I am claiming that the Old Testament is not the claims of any deity. It is human anthropomorphism about a deity. No deity was involved in writing the OT or the NT for that matter. They are the writings of fallible men.

Same question: How do you know? What are your criteria for calling one set of writings human and another divine?
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Sheldon said:
Cool, but that is not remotely what I asked now is it? Though I strongly infer from your response that you either do not know, or maybe you just don't want to honestly address what was coming next.
Why did you ask me that question though?

Have you heard of Occam's razor, do you know what an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy is? If you don't then say no, and I will explain, if you do then re-read your post that i was responding to, and the inference should be pretty obvious.

Instead of responding to my question, which was "If Baha'u'llah did not have religious education, how was He aware of all those concepts in other religions",

Again look up Occam's razor, and again look up the definition of an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, and this might help you understand why your question is flawed.

Do you see how you avoid the actual discussion by derailing it?

No, but since it is now obvious you don't understand Occam's razor or what an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy is, I can see why you have failed to see why my question is an obvious logical consequence of yours. Which of course was exactly the point I was making.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
As did I, which is why I was minded to use it as an example that she really does not, as she claimed, "have a form grasp of logic."



1. I know exactly what she was saying.
2. What she said had no relevance to the fact she used known common logical fallacies to say it. which was my only point.
It seems to me You conveniently interpret her post in a way you can refute it.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Have you heard of Occam's razor, do you know what an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy is? If you don't then say no, and I will explain, if you do then re-read your post that i was responding to, and the inference should be pretty obvious.



Again look up Occam's razor, and again look up the definition of an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, and this might help you understand why your question is flawed.



No, but since it is now obvious you don't understand Occam's razor or what an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy is, I can see why you have failed to see why my question is an obvious logical consequence of yours. Which of course was exactly the point I was making.
Hmm, to me obviously you are not up for a meaningful discussion.
All the best
:)
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
There is no historical evidence for Noah, Abraham.or even Moses. Does it mean they did not exist?

Things that don't exist generally leave no historical evidence, but that obvious fact aside, if there is no historical evidence that is a strong reason to doubt claims associated with them.

They lived far time ago. That could be the reason there is no recorded history for them.

Again you may want to look up Occam's razor.

But the Bab and Baha'u'llah lived in the 19th century. So, it is possible to investigate their history.

Well endless requests for various adherents to demonstrate any objective evidence have come to naught.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
For me there is good reason to believe they lived before, because I believe in Baha'u'llah. Baha'u'llah confirmed them.
You just said there was no historical evidence, so how exactly did he "confirm them"? Beyond a subjective assertion of course, as otherwise what you are using here is an appeal to authority fallacy.

And there is reason I believe in Baha'u'llah is because I investigated His history and Writings and character, and all together convinced me.

Yet you have failed to produce any objective evidence to support your belief.

We don't know much about Noah or even Jesus through history. But we do know about Baha'u'llah, because He was in the 19th century.

We know a great deal about J. K. Rowling, that doesn't make wizardry real.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
We are creations of God. I believe He does not want His creations be misguided, and only materialistic and worldly. He wants His creation be true human beings, spiritual, bright and like angels. So, if He has to destroy it, and start it over again, He can.
Why did he make humans susceptible to misguidance? Why did he not create such that cannot be misguided? He was the creator. He destroyed the humanity once in the flood. The faults were there even after that. He wsent thousands of manifestations, the mistake is still there. What kind of God is he? Can he do anything right? He even created faulty angels.
 
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