Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[TransmutingSoul]

Which nation is not passing through a crisis? very nation has one crisis or another. Life itself is a crisis, from one to another.

That is the Title of the entire letter that contains the information.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Is that offered as evidence of "things unseen"? Are you suggesting that that is evidence of a prescient deity speaking through a man?

No, I am not suggesting it is evidence of a deity speaking through a man. Baha'u'llah did not offer prophecies as evidence of who He claimed to be.

 

[oldbadger]

The old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead.

What about WW1? What did Bahai claim back then, 100 years ago?
What about WWII? What did Bahai claim back then, 80 years ago?
etc etc etc....

A holocaust would indeed change the world, but if a losing Putin pushed all the buttons it would not be because your God ordained it to happen. NO.

 

[Brian2]

1. No one can predict future. Prophecy is a farce.
2. There is no evidence of God or dvine will.
3. One cannot believe on what a charlatan or mad / psychologically disturbed person says.

A lot of people in the Bible predicted the future.

 

[Brian2]

I have heard from a few Christian that they believe a world government will be established but by a false prophet. Are you familiar with any of those interpretations?

I have heard something like that but am not up on the details nor the scriptures used.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What about WW1? What did Bahai claim back then, 100 years ago?
What about WWII? What did Bahai claim back then, 80 years ago?
etc etc etc....

A holocaust would indeed change the world, but if a losing Putin pushed all the buttons it would not be because your God ordained it to happen. NO.

Abdul'baha while in Europe and America, 2 years before the First World War, told the audiences that a spark would set of Europe and the resulting war would be in 2 years time, it was reported in the press.

Regards Tony

 

[Brian2]

Is that offered as evidence of "things unseen"? Are you suggesting that that is evidence of a prescient deity speaking through a man? To do that, a prophecy would need to be high quality. Among the qualities of high quality prophecy are specificity and that they predict unexpected things. This meets neither.



All predictions are prophecies. They are synonyms. The prophecy of the sun rising in the morning is low quality because it predicts something expected, like prophecies that the way the world is organized will change as it has throughout human history.

When an entity with knowledge of the future wants to make a convincing prediction, it'll need to be at least as good as the one made in the movie "Frequency, " when Dennis Quaid's character's son, who is communicating to his father by ham radio from his father future, wants to convince his father that it is really his son speaking to him in 1969 from the year 1998. The son tells his father the outcome of game five of the 1969 World Series while the father is watching it live in a bar :

"Well, game five was the big one. It turned in the bottom of the 6th. We were down 3-0. Cleon Jones gets hit on the foot - left a scuffmark on the ball. Clendenon comes up. The count goes to 2 and 2. High fastball. He nailed it. Weis slammed a solo shot in the 7th to tie. Jones and Swoboda scored in the 8th. We won, Pop."

Once I had ruled out that I was watching a taped delay of the game, I would have to conclude that this source knew the future in detail before it occurred because of its specificity and unlikelihood. That is high quality prophecy because it is specific and unexpected. Predicting the sun will rise is low quality because, though specific - we can predict the time and the direction in which the sun will appear - it isn't unexpected. The predictions given above are neither specific nor unexpected.

But notice that science makes predictions that are specific, unexpected, and then confirmed, such as the bending of light Einstein predicted as it grazed just past the limb of the sun, or the finding of the Higgs particle at the specific energy predicted. These are high quality prophecies that exceed those in holy books, but are still not evidence of divine prescience.

Scientific prediction is not the same as religious prophecy. They are a whole different order of thing.

 

[oldbadger]

Abdul'baha while in Europe and America, 2 years before the First World War, told the audiences that a spark would set of Europe and the resulting war would be in 2 years time, it was reported in the press.

Regards Tony

Which proved.....what?
What good did any such telling do?
Many people were probably thinking just that, just as many people have been watching Putin's moves over recent years.

The claims and tellings of Bahais that never happened just got forgotten, I expect.

 

[ppp]

Also remember, it is the aggregate of all prophecies that create the possibility that they are true, not any one specific one.

That is false. The aggregate of insufficient claims is not sufficiency.

 

[ppp]

The prophets revealed equity and justice according to the times somewhat but with an underlying unity with the other prophets.

That is certainly a thing that you have said.

 

[ppp]

You investigate further.

There is nothing to investigate. There are a series of claims, all lacking any substance.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is the Title of the entire letter that contains the information.

Thanks for your offer, but I am not an uneducated 19th Century Iranian Shia Muslim who put their faith in your manifestation and his blog posts.

A lot of people in the Bible predicted the future.

I know the kind of predictions they made.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Civilizations have risen and fallen and ebbed and flowed for as long as humans have been around. That would be no great prediction for any student of history in the 19th century.



But they don't deal with the exact issues we're facing. They're vague. They say nothing about Russia or Ukraine, for example, at least not that I've seen thus far. And to the degree that the world is becoming globalized, it is doing so in a secular, not religious way.

Baha’u’llah advocated collective security in the 19th century. That is the principle that the world is attempting to apply except He said to be united was a key to its effectiveness which we don’t have currently. He said to unitedly destroy a government that was attacking another nation. Humanity can’t do that unless they unite or have a Third World War. But will sanctions be enough? They haven’t affected Myanmar or Syria. Unity is the key here.

 

[Sheldon]

The old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead. Not only the Baha’is but many other people have seen this process unfolding all over the world at an ever-increasing pace but it has become even more apparent now that war has broken out in the Ukraine.

Top stories

Opinion: Putin’s assault on Ukraine will shape a new world order

How Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Could Change the Global Order Forever

China ponders how Russia’s actions in Ukraine could reshape world order

Bury the Old World Order

Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true? In the latter half of the 19th century, Baha’u’llah prophesied that what we are seeing now would take place. I believe that humans will build the new world order with the assistance of God and what was revealed by Baha’u’llah.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 7

“By My Self! The day is approaching when We will have rolled up the world and all that is therein, and spread out a new order in its stead. He, verily, is powerful over all things.” Gleanings, p. 313

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.” Gleanings, p. 136

The phrase "new world order" in the Baháʼí Faith refers to the replacement of the collective political norms and values of the 19th century with a new system of worldwide governance that incorporates the Baháʼí ideals of unity and justice for all nations, races, creeds, and classes. The idea of world unification, both politically and spiritually, is at the heart of Baháʼí teachings.[1][2]

Baháʼu'lláh taught that the future order will be the embodiment God's scheme for mankind.[3] Later on his successors, ʻAbdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi, interpreted "unification of mankind" as the eventual establishment of a world commonwealth, later as a democratic elected world government based on principles of equity and justice.[4]

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order_(Baháʼí)

Predicting wars is hardly prescient, you might as well predict sunrises. Some people just project beliefs subjectively onto events, and pretend this represents objective evidence.

 

[Left Coast]

After the 1st world war representatives of various governments assembled in Paris in order to lay the foundations of Universal Peace and thus bestow rest and comfort upon the world of humanity.

At this time Abdu’l-Bahá wrote in 1919, “yet misunderstanding among some individuals is still predominant and self-interest still prevails. In such an atmosphere, Universal Peace will not be practicable, nay rather, fresh difficulties will arise.”

He then wrote in 1920, “For in the future another war, fiercer than the last, will assuredly break out,” “Verily, of this there is no doubt whatever.” Then In another letter sent the same year, He was even more explicit. After presenting—as He had done in His addresses in the West—some of the spiritual requirements for the establishment of peace, He closed by enumerating some of the elements that would eventually lead humanity to World War II just nineteen years later:

"The Balkans will remain discontented. Its restlessness will increase. The vanquished Powers will continue to agitate. They will resort to every measure that may rekindle the flame of war. Movements, newly born and worldwide in their range, will exert their utmost effort for the advancement of their designs. The Movement of the Left will acquire great importance. Its influence will spread."

That is how it works, Peace is offered, then the overall ramifications for not accepting Peace is foretold.

Reading Reality in Times of Crisis - Bahai World (Source)

Regards Tony

You're aware other people predicted World War II as well, yes?

Are they prophets?

 

[ppp]

But will sanctions be enough? They haven’t affected Myanmar or Syria. Unity is the key here.

And the mechanism for achieving unity is...?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You're aware other people predicted World War II as well, yes?

Are they prophets?

Hi,

i think Many people can predict many things. Maybe someone predicts 100 things to happen, but 1 or 2 happens, and 98 does not happen. But what if someone predicts a series of events and all of them come true?

 

[F1fan]

Another Trailblazer quagmire thread. Her other thread died so she started this one to get renewed attention. Same old pattern here, she makes absurd claims, we respond with reason and facts, she denies them and makes more absurd claims, wash, rinse, repeat. Yawn. I've seen this show.

 

[Left Coast]

There are Bible prophecies referring to the coming of the messiah that mention specific countries and events but they do not mention specific years. The following prophecy refers to the exiles and banishments of Baha'u'llah and can be matched up with actual history.

Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

How does this predict Bahaullah, precisely? In context:

"I must bear the indignation of the Lord,
because I have sinned against him,
until he takes my side
and executes judgment for me.
He will bring me out to the light;
I shall see his vindication.
Then my enemy will see,
and shame will cover her who said to me,
“Where is the Lord your God?”
My eyes will see her downfall;
now she will be trodden down
like the mire of the streets.
A day for the building of your walls!
In that day the boundary shall be far extended.
In that day they will come to you
from Assyria to Egypt,
and from Egypt to the River,
from sea to sea and from mountain to mountain.
But the earth will be desolate
because of its inhabitants,
for the fruit of their doings."

A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course, catastrophic in its immediate effects, unimaginably glorious in its ultimate consequences, is at present sweeping the face of the earth... The powerful operations of this titanic upheaval are comprehensible to none except such as have recognized the claims of both Baha'u'llah and the Bab.

- Shoghi Effendi

This doesn't say anything. Countless "titanic upheavals" have occurred in human history.

The word 'prediction' means one thing in science, another in religion. When we study religion scientifically, it is important to distinguish between these meanings. In science, a prediction is any testable inference we draw from a hypothesis or theory. It may equally well describe a future event, a past observation or an ongoing process. In religion, a prediction generally is a prophecy - a glimpse of the future disclosed through the words of a prophet. Although the scientific and religious meanings may sometimes overlap, they are not identical.

Clever but transparent way to pre-empt criticism of vague prophecies.

1. The fall from power of the French Emperor Napoleon III and the consequent loss of his empire.

2. The defeat of Germany in two bloody wars, resulting in the 'lamentations of Berlin'.

3. The success and stability of Queen Victoria's reign.

4. The dismissal of 'All Pasha as prime minister of Turkey.

5. The overthrow and murder of Sultan 'Abdu'l-'Aziz of Turkey.

6. The breakup of the Ottoman Empire, leading to the extinction of the 'outward splendour' of its capital, Constantinople.

7. The downfall of Nasiri'd-Din Shah, the Persian monarch.

8. The advent of constitutional government in Persia.

9. A massive (albeit temporary) decline in the fortunes of monarchy throughout the world.

10. A worldwide erosion of ecclesiastical authority.

11. The collapse of the Muslim Caliphate.

12. The spread of communism, the 'Movement of the Left', and its rise to world power.

13. The catastrophic decline of that same movement, triggered by the collapse of its egalitarian economy.

14. The rise of Israel as a Jewish homeland.

15. The persecution of Jews on the European continent (the Nazi holocaust).

16. America's violent racial struggles.

17. Baha'u'llah's release from the prison of 'Akka and the pitching of His tent on Mount Carmel.

18. The seizure and desecration of Baha'u'llah's House in Baghdad.

19. The failure of all attempts to create schism within the Baha'i Faith.

20. The explosive acceleration of scientific and technological progress.

21. The development of nuclear weapons.

22. The achievement of transmutation of elements, the age-old alchemist's dream.

23. Dire peril for all humanity as a result of that achievement.

24. The discovery that complex elements evolve in nature from simpler ones.

25. The recognition of planets as a necessary byproduct of star formation.

26. Space travel.

27. The realization that some forms of cancer are communicable.

28. Failure to find evidence for a 'missing link' between man and ape.

29. The non-existence of a mechanical ether (the supposed light-carrying substance posited by classical physics), and its redefinition as an abstract reality.

30. The breakdown of mechanical models (literal images) as a basis for understanding the physical world.

I will review each of these prophecies, describing when and how each was made and fulfilled. First, however, let us briefly consider their common historical setting.

The Challenge of Baha'u'llah, PROOFS OF THE BAHA'I REVELATION, pp. 35-40

Without even googling, two of these are immediately obviously incorrect. First, there was already a schism early in Baha'i, when some followers of the Bab refused to accept Bahaullah as a Prophet. A remnant of them still exist today.

Secondly, many transitional hominid fossils have been found.

So that's two gone from the list - again, without even googling a thing yet to verify what was actually predicted and what actually happened.

Now - do you really want me to do that, knowing that at first glance the list is already fallacious?

Believability of a prophecy has no relevance as to whether it's true/accurate or not.

It's very bizarre for you to claim that whether a prophecy actually comes true has no relevance to whether we should believe it or not.

The event stated in the prophecy either happened or it did not.
A prophecy either came true or it did not come true. It does not matter if it is vague or specific.

But it does matter if it's vague or specific. If I anticipate that I'll die someday, that's nothing to write home about. If I predict the precise manner of my death in advance, down to the day, hour, and minute, and a method which I don't control, that's a significantly more impressive prediction.

That is easy to do with the Bible because so many of the prophecies are so vague.

Same with Bahaullah's prophecies, evidently.

 

[Left Coast]

Baha’u’llah advocated collective security in the 19th century. That is the principle that the world is attempting to apply except He said to be united was a key to its effectiveness which we don’t have currently. He said to unitedly destroy a government that was attacking another nation. Humanity can’t do that unless they unite or have a Third World War. But will sanctions be enough? They haven’t affected Myanmar or Syria. Unity is the key here.

So hold on - you think we should destroy Russia?

Yikes.