Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[Trailblazer]

But if you want people to heed the warning, it behooves you to be believable.

as if we have any control over what people find believable..... not our job.

 

[Clara Tea]

You haven't cited them all, so I have no idea if that's true. But if they're all as vague as what you cited, then they're as mundane as me saying the sun will come up. So yes, his incredibly vague "prophesies" have come true, I guess? What's the relevance of that, though?

I thought that the sun was going to come up.

I think that you meant that prophesies were trivial, not vague. It is quite specific to say that the sun is not coming up. Triveal in the sense that the sun has always come up in the past, so it will likely come up again, and few would argue with that.

 

[Clara Tea]

but unfortunately few people heed the warnings.

Everything that I write is my opinion, unless I am quoting someone else.

Christ is said to have a 2nd coming. Surely Christ will be doubted, ignored, and if anyone knows of His tremendous gifts and powers, he might be dissected in a military lab by those who wonder how they, too, could get such powers, and wonder if a person of Christ's powers could be a threat to the nation, and if there is a way to neutralize those powers. Surely Christ will meet a horrible end, just as he did the first time (cross).

 

[Clara Tea]

I am not trying to do anything so I don't need to try harder.

When I asked Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true? all I wanted to know is if people see the old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead.

Why are people trying to derail my thread and make it be about prophecies for Baha'u'llah?
That is a question they need to ask themselves. I have NO NEED to prove who Baha'u'llah was using prophecies.

If the old world order is being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead that means that Baha'u'llah's prophecies are coming true. I do not give a tinker's damn if it meets your criteria for a prophecy because I am not trying to prove that Baha'u'llah was a Prophet. I already know that He was and I could not care less what other people believe.

Then you need to relax harder.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's very weird, because the title of the thread is "Are Baha'u'llah's prophecies coming true?"

If you wanted a thread about that topic but didn't expect to talk about the prophecies or what they mean, I don't know what you expected to discuss.

There is nothing weird about it because I was only referring to the prophecies that I posted, and that is clear from the OP. Also, I did not ask what those prophecies mean, I ONLY asked if they are coming true.

I said:
Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true? In the latter half of the 19th century, Baha’u’llah prophesied that what we are seeing now would take place. I believe that humans will build the new world order with the assistance of God and what was revealed by Baha’u’llah.

Then I listed those prophecies about the old world order being rolled up and a new world order rising in its stead.

Then as usual people got off track and started talking about what I never asked or wanted to talk about.
But as they say in the 12 step programs, we cannot control people, places or things.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then you need to relax harder.

I cannot relax harder since I never relax.

 

[Tiberius]

Why are people trying to derail my thread and make it be about prophecies for Baha'u'llah?

Because you SPECIFICALLY MENTION MR B'S PROPHECIES IN THE THREAD TITLE.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It makes a difference if one knows from whence these predictions come and why these events are occurring

It does empower the Baha'is because we know why these events are occurring where they are leading

It matters to me because I am a Baha'i, so I can connect the dots

OK, you say you find value knowing about these prophecies, but don't say what that is. You say it makes a difference, but what difference? You say it empowers you, but how? You say you connect the dots, but I don't see you doing that, either? That phrase generally refers to connecting isolated events and seeing a big picture. You begin with the big picture - a new world order, and then interpret history as a fulfillment of that prediction whatever happens.

What you describe with dot connecting and empowerment sounds like the process I went through that led to expatriation. I saw a series of events occurring that led me to believe that my future would be better spent elsewhere. I connected the dots of recent history and saw the arc of America's trajectory, extrapolated into the future, and used that knowledge to make a decision that I expected would lead to a better future for my wife and me. And I believe that that is what happened.

That is what Bacon meant by, "Knowledge is power." That's what I mean by knowledge - ideas that are derived from evidence, and which empower those who can use it to their benefit by allowing one to make choices that facilitate more desired outcomes. These prophecies, like all religious prophecies, don't do that. You say they empower you. I say that my predictions empowered me because they allowed me to see what was coming and act on it, but I don't see where yours do anything for you except perhaps to give you a sense that it will all work out well in the end, because it was predicted it would.

Ask yourself why you started this thread, why you wanted to know if others including non-Baha'i thought the prophecies were accurate. What if we all said no.? What if we all said yes. No difference. That's why I wrote, "What difference does it make if one answers yes or no?" You answered "It does not matter to me." So again I ask, why did you start this thread if the answers don't matter to you?

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: Why are people trying to derail my thread and make it be about prophecies for Baha'u'llah?

Because you SPECIFICALLY MENTION MR B'S PROPHECIES IN THE THREAD TITLE.

I only mentioned specific prophecies and I asked a specific question.

I said: The old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead.

Then I asked: Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true? In the latter half of the 19th century, Baha’u’llah prophesied that what we are seeing now would take place. I believe that humans will build the new world order with the assistance of God and what was revealed by Baha’u’llah.

Then I listed a couple of Baha'u'llah's prophecies about the The old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead.

I never asked if the prophecies were proof that Baha'u'llah was a Prophet, I only asked if people think they are coming true.

Then people all went off on a tangent talking about Baha'u'llah's prophecies in general and what makes a good prophecy.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, the purpose is to make people aware that the Baha'i Faith has the solutions to heal the ills of the world. Which means accept that Baha'u'llah is a messenger from God and to listen to what he says and to apply them. Which means all people of all races and all religions should unite and come together as one and turn to the Baha'i Faith as the source of the knowledge that is needed to accomplish that unity. Something like that? Or would you word it differently?

Yes, to inform that there was valid solutions offered. Those solutions have been ignored for too long, so it is now too late.

It was not about people accepting the Baha'i Faith as part of those warnings, that is a personal choice, but they did have to acknowledge the wisdom in the solutions offered. Yet the world was too divided to see the solutions were valid.

It has been suggested that the calamity will come prior to the lesser peace. The unofficial prohecy warns of America and Russia both suffering, also other areas of this planet.That it will be bombs falling upon the cities, a conflict that is no a world war, as it will be over in one night.

I guess that is what humanity waits for?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

OK, you say you find value knowing about these prophecies, but don't say what that is. You say it makes a difference, but what difference?

I said: It makes a difference if one knows from whence these predictions come and why these events are occurring, unless you think ignorance is bliss. I certainly don't expect it to make any difference to non-Baha'is whether Baha'u'llah's predictions are coming true and I certainly don't expect non-Baha'is to connect the dots, but that does not mean there are no dots to connect.

Because I believe there are dots to connect, I think it has the potential to make a big difference, but only if more people recognized Baha'u'llah.

You say it empowers you, but how?

I explained that. It empowers the Baha'is to work on building the new world order.

I said: It does empower the Baha'is because we know why these events are occurring where they are leading...
Toward a New World Order?

Moreover, as Baha'is we have been enjoined by Baha'u'llah to be participants in building the New World Order, but we believe that Baha'u'llah has enjoined everyone to be part of building it, not only Baha'is.

You say you connect the dots, but I don't see you doing that, either? That phrase generally refers to connecting isolated events and seeing a big picture. You begin with the big picture - a new world order, and then interpret history as a fulfillment of that prediction whatever happens.

No, I do not begin with the big picture, a new world order, and then interpret history as a fulfillment of that prediction whatever happens. I see the old world order crumbling all around me and I believe a new world order is slowly rising in its stead. I believe that as history unfolds that will tell us if the prediction of Baha'u'llah was a valid prediction.

No, I am not connecting isolated events and seeing a big picture, I am connecting all the many events in the world and from that I see the big picture coming into view.

What you describe with dot connecting and empowerment sounds like the process I went through that led to expatriation. I saw a series of events occurring that led me to believe that my future would be better spent elsewhere. I connected the dots of recent history and saw the arc of America's trajectory, extrapolated into the future, and used that knowledge to make a decision that I expected would lead to a better future for my wife and me. And I believe that that is what happened.

Well, it sure sounds like you connected the dots and saw America's trajectory long before most people even had an inkling. Then you made a decision that has worked for you based upon that connection. Sounds like critical thinking to me. I had my own thoughts about leaving the country but I decided to stay for personal reasons and because this country needs Baha'is more than any other country, and I believe this country will need Baha'is even more in the future.

These prophecies, like all religious prophecies, don't do that. You say they empower you. I say that my predictions empowered me because they allowed me to see what was coming and act on it,

Quite the contrary, what I see happening in the world and how I connect it with these prophecies are empowering me right now because it is further validation of Baha'u'llah.

empower: make (someone) stronger and more confident, especially in controlling their life and claiming their rights.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=empower+meaning

Ask yourself why you started this thread, why you wanted to know if others including non-Baha'i thought the prophecies were accurate. What if we all said no.? What if we all said yes. No difference. That's why I wrote, "What difference does it make if one answers yes or no?" You answered "It does not matter to me." So again I ask, why did you start this thread if the answers don't matter to you?

The answers I would receive, be they yes or no, is not the main reason I asked the question. I asked it to get people thinking about what is going on in the world right now, as we are possibly on the precipice of WW3. Does anyone care how much others are suffering, or is all people care about is their own personal situation, whether they are affected by the war?

I also started the thread to convey my personal opinion about what is transpiring and the implications of such. As I said: "I believe that humans will build the new world order with the assistance of God and what was revealed by Baha’u’llah. "

 

[Tiberius]

I only mentioned specific prophecies and I asked a specific question.

I said: The old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead.

Then I asked: Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true? In the latter half of the 19th century, Baha’u’llah prophesied that what we are seeing now would take place. I believe that humans will build the new world order with the assistance of God and what was revealed by Baha’u’llah.

Then I listed a couple of Baha'u'llah's prophecies about the The old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead.

I never asked if the prophecies were proof that Baha'u'llah was a Prophet, I only asked if people think they are coming true.

Then people all went off on a tangent talking about Baha'u'llah's prophecies in general and what makes a good prophecy.

I'm sorry, did I say anything about whether Mr B was a real prophet or not? Perhaps you could show me where in this thread I did that.

TB: Do Mr B's prophecies show that a new world order is coming?

Tibs: Those prophecies are vaguely worded, so they could mean anything we want them to mean.

TB: Why is everyone making this thread a discussion about Mr B's prophecies? I don't understand it? I was just asking about what Mr B's prophecies could mean! I didn't want to start a discussion about Mr B's prophecies!

 

[F1fan]

Sure, you know what I started this thread because you are the all-knowing God.

I started it because of what is going on in the world today and I find it very interesting how that correlates with what Baha'u'llah prophesied. People deserve to know but what they do with that knowledge is entirely their own choice.

And it should have ended with the first few replies by critical thinkers. But you can't let it go. We covered a lot of these bad prophesies in other threads.

The very last thing I want is attention.

Hahahahaha. You bet.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's not exactly a mechanism. The first is just saying people talk and stuff happens. The second is a pipe dream where there's a world war and humans are left with anything resembling local civilizations, let alone world civilizations.

We are told in our writings that humanity will not annihilate itself and I agree but that we will be forced into a compromise for our own survival.

 

[loverofhumanity]

They are not trying to "bring down" the government. We don't want the entire government of Russia to collapse. That would be catastrophic.

The solution is to consult. Obviously the push to have all Europe join NATO is a security concern of Russia that needs to be sorted out.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The UN General Assembly met on Feb. 23 and asked the parties to resolve the dispute by negotiations. UN has done its part.That is what the Bahais say. He may have read Persian translations of Torah, Quran and Bible. Did he read anything else? And is that reflected in his writings? What is the criteria and proof that he was well-read.Too= me, his motivation was to establish a familial cult, a personality cult, and he succeeded in that, passing on the crown to his son and his son passed it down to his grandson. They lived happily ever after and never had to do any other work.

Your posts have become much more moderate. Post something I can give you a star for.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Even in one country, maybe still the most powerful country, the U.S., we aren't united, and we may never be united. And who's going to bring us to our knees for the wrongs we've committed?

A system of justice will not take sides and no one will be free from prosecution if terrible crimes have been committed. The reason we don’t have a just system yet is, I believe, because governments do not want a system that can hold them to account for their crimes.

 

[ppp]

We are told in our writings that humanity will not annihilate itself

LOL. If it happens you would never know your writings were wrong on that point. :-D

and I agree

Are you qualified to have an opinion on the matter?

 

[Trailblazer]

And it should have ended with the first few replies by critical thinkers. But you can't let it go. We covered a lot of these bad prophesies in other threads.

I can't let it go? Nothing could be more hilarious. There is nothing for me to let go of since I am not trying to prove anything. As usual you are projecting what you BELIEVE I am trying to do onto me.

As can be clearly seen by reading the OP, this thread was never intended to be about "covering prophecies." It is other people who made it about that, not me.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm sorry, did I say anything about whether Mr B was a real prophet or not? Perhaps you could show me where in this thread I did that.

TB: Do Mr B's prophecies show that a new world order is coming?

Tibs: Those prophecies are vaguely worded, so they could mean anything we want them to mean.

TB: Why is everyone making this thread a discussion about Mr B's prophecies? I don't understand it? I was just asking about what Mr B's prophecies could mean! I didn't want to start a discussion about Mr B's prophecies!

I did not say that you said anything about whether Baha'u'llah was a real prophet or not.
What you did do is start talking about prophecies and what is required according to your criteria.

This "prophecy" about a "new world order" is vague, and thus fails point five in my list of things that a real prophecy requires (see my signature). There are dozens of things in the last century that it could equally apply to.

Really, you must try harder.
#177 Tiberius, Today at 12:18 PM

Then I said: I am not trying to do anything so I don't need to try harder.

What you did was assume I was trying to prove something with the two prophecies I posted but that was not my intention or the reason I posted the thread.

I did not ask: Do Mr B's prophecies show that a new world order is coming?
I asked: Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?