Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[ppp]

Yep, that's my biggest problem with the Baha'i Faith, progressive revelation. They reinvent all the other religions in order to get them to fit the progression. They almost come right out and say that all the other religions are false by saying that they've all lost the "original" meanings and teachings, that they've misinterpreted and added in things. Well yeah, I agree with that. Plus, it seems like each religion borrowed from other religions and made up their own version. And I think a good case could be made that the Baha'i Faith borrowed heavily from Islam.

It's a good point. Would you consider Baha'i to be the Islamic analog of Mormonism?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Obviously they don't care, because if they cared they would do something to show they care.
.. God is the only one who could prove that He exists. ..
It is the other evidence that supports His claim that show who He was.

I would have cared if there was some evidence to satisfy me. I do not consider advertising blurbs as proof.
If that is true, do you believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster or Pink Unicorns? And do you believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the mahdi sent by Allah? He had just as much proof as the Iranian had, his own talk and writings. There, when we talk of proof, you wash your hands. But this entity never gave any proof of his existence.
Well as I said, Bahai logic and that of the rest of the world's peoples differs.
What is it? His sweet talk. Even the frauds do that. They talk sweet. Actually, One should be suspicious of too much of sweet talk.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Proof?
Also Isaiah 35:2 Tells us that ..

You think I would go through all that inane write ups? Why do not you mention your proof right here?
And who is this Isiah? Another your claimed 'prophets'. Does your God have no other thing to do except sending prophets and messengers when so many other things need his attention?

 

[Aupmanyav]

If you think that things that cannot be known are subject to logic you are the one who does not know anything about logic.
Fine, if I am not worth your time then please leave me alone.

Again, a sentence needs a correction. It should have been:
"you are the one who does not know anything about Bahai logic"
Don't want replies? Simple. Post such topics in non-debate forums.

.. collapse of Old World Order as the New World Order is rolled our, there becomes no doubt that the prophecies are indeed unfolding.

Where do you see the collapse of Old World Order, it is just the same if not worse.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Okay, what did he say in that book about the Hindu belief of reincarnation?

What matters is, all those subjects are in Iqan. A Book written by Baha'u'llah who did not have religious education, who wrote the Book in two days.
I always asked that question. If Baha'u'llah did not have religious education, how was He aware of all those concepts in other religions?

 

[Sheldon]

That is because I have a firm grasp of logic. Prove that I do not or stop claiming I don't.

Though you are hardly alone in doing so, you have as much as anyone I have seen here, relentlessly used known common logical fallacies. What's worse is that you have persisted in repeating the same arguments and fallacies even after they were explained multiple times, by multiple posters, and forgive me for saying so, but it is abundantly clear you have also failed to understand many of them, often resorting to a tit for tat response, by falsely calming others have used such fallacies when they have not.

Here is a post of yours from another thread, using two known common logical fallacies in the same post:

1. I believe God exists and there is evidence, because if there was no evidence God could not hold humans accountable for believing in Him.

2. Why would God expect us to believe He exists and provide no evidence? That would be unfair as well as unreasonable.

The first is quite obviously a circular reasoning fallacy. The second uses a begging the question fallacy, where arguing for a deity you make unevidenced assumptions about it.

A person with "a firm grasp of logic" would never make such irrational claims, let alone open a thread with them.

 

[Sheldon]

TransmutingSoul said: ↑
.. collapse of Old World Order as the New World Order is rolled our, there becomes no doubt that the prophecies are indeed unfolding.

Where do you see the collapse of Old World Order, it is just the same if not worse.

A very good point, what we are seeing as an old world order trying to recreate itself as a major world power, as it once was, by recapturing satellite nations it once controlled completely.

 

[Sheldon]

If Baha'u'llah did not have religious education, how was He aware of all those concepts in other religions?

Have you ever heard of Occam's razor? Or an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Have you ever heard of Occam's razor? Or an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy?

That's not how I would answer a historical question. I would try to find an answer according to historical evidences.

 

[KWED]

I have been to myriad psychologists and counselors

I was not aware of this.
As a rule I try to avoid dismantling the belief systems or coping mechanisms of people with mental heath issues.
Good luck.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Where do you see the collapse of Old World Order, it is just the same if not worse.

@Sheldon

I see it is in the hearts of the majority of people, who are embracing the concepts of a new world order, where the rights of the undividual are upheld.

A good example is that the world of mankind no longer tolerates tyrants and the domination of totalitarian governments and religious orthodoxy over the rights of the individual. This is a vast change from 19 century views where religious orthodoxy held captive the minds of mankind and totalitarian governments were in power.

Religious orthodoxy and totalitarian governments were put on notice and their power of influence was taken away, many fell and of the traces that remained, their influence is being slowly diminished.

The instigators of the Ukraine crisis are an example of minds that are part of that diminishing old world order.

Materialistic aspirations is also part of the old world order, this unhealthy state of mind is the crisis the world now faces. The choices being made are still to focused on the material prosperity of individual nations, this is a hard lesson the world is currently facing. We must be prepared to share the pain with Ukraine.

The Nation of India I notice has not yet made that choice, I hope it will join in.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You think I would go through all that inane write ups? Why do not you mention your proof right here?
And who is this Isiah? Another your claimed 'prophets'. Does your God have no other thing to do except sending prophets and messengers when so many other things need his attention?

If you choose not to pursue, that is your choice, why ask more questions?

I would offer that the key about faith, it is only an individual that can pursue it.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No. The 2nd century was a mess. Many sects of Christianity who called each other heretics. The letters of Iraneus shows us this was a bad time. Lot of strife in the 3rd century, then the church persecuted any outside beliefs, then the split with Protestant groups. Those were not united times?

For those that embraces Jesus they found peace and unity. That they lived in a world that made other choices, that is life.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I was not aware of this.
As a rule I try to avoid dismantling the belief systems or coping mechanisms of people with mental heath issues.
Good luck.

Just because someone has seen psycogist or psychiatrist does not mean they have mental issue. It could mean they went through some difficulties, and became depressed or upset. So they wanted getting help from a doctor.
I would rather just focus on the topic of thread...

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Though you are hardly alone in doing so, you have as much as anyone I have seen here, relentlessly used known common logical fallacies. What's worse is that you have persisted in repeating the same arguments and fallacies even after they were explained multiple times, by multiple posters, and forgive me for saying so, but it is abundantly clear you have also failed to understand many of them, often resorting to a tit for tat response, by falsely calming others have used such fallacies when they have not.

Here is a post of yours from another thread, using two known common logical fallacies in the same post:



The first is quite obviously a circular reasoning fallacy. The second uses a begging the question fallacy, where arguing for a deity you make unevidenced assumptions about it.

A person with "a firm grasp of logic" would never make such irrational claims, let alone open a thread with them.

I read the whole post from @Trailblazer,

To me she is saying, that, the Messengers are evidence of God, because we see the consequences of disbelieving in them, as what we see happening in the world now. So, if there was no God, we should not have seen punishments in the world.
Notice she is not saying that the proof of God is the calamities in the world, but this an "evidence", that what Baha'u'llah said, is coming true.


“We have fixed a time for you, O people! If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe indeed is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you!”
- Bahaullah

Now, since we see how much difficulty the world started to have, such as Covid 19, and now this new War that many are concerned could turn to a nuclear war, we see these things as a possible sign, that a fixed time, that Bahaullah wrote, is really getting near.
Of course for those who do not believe in God and messengers, all of this is just a joke and game. Well....

 

[CG Didymus]

What is the proof that your Iranian is infallible or for existence of God or that God chose him to he his messenger? He was only establishing a family enterprise in countries where people believed in Imams and Mahdis (Shia Islam)? In the same way Ismailies, Dawoodis, Ahmadiyyas established their familial enterprises. The difference is that the Iranian's line petered out with his great grandson.

Infallible? That is the big question. He's got to be The Man. Everything he says has to be right on. I have serious doubts. Progressive revelation, to me, seems to be nothing more than a way to say that all previous religions were okay, but now the Baha'i Faith is the new one and must be listened to. Baha'u'llah says that thing about Ishmael. and not Isaac, was the son that Abraham took to be sacrificed. As if that is a real, historical event.

And speaking of historical, he says that this Hud and Salih were real prophets, and if they were, why weren't they put on every Baha'i list of the different manifestations? Baha'is destroy Christianity. Jesus is dead and gone and didn't atone for the sins of the world as the NT claims. Plus, no Satan. Great, lots of us don't believe that stuff. But they replace it with their own superstitious beliefs about God and his manifestations/messengers. And all those things he says have to be believed... because he is the infallible word of God.

For an organized religion they got some good stuff, but infallible? I really think it's just a liberalized version of Islam. Lots of laws that people aren't going to follow, and somehow Baha'i leadership will have to try and enforce on people... for their own good.

 

[CG Didymus]

Also Isaiah 35:2 Tells us that

"It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God."

Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

He will do that huh? Instead in his time we've gone from rifles and canons to nuclear weapons and rockets. That's going in the opposite direction as prophesied.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

For an organized religion they got some good stuff, but infallible? I really think it's just a liberalized version of Islam. Lots of laws that people aren't going to follow, and somehow Baha'i leadership will have to

The issue is CG you are looking at old world order thoughts of domination.

The new world order does not have that restriction.

Liberty requires our free will submission to laws that guide a progressive society.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

He will do that huh? Instead in his time we're gone from rifles and canons to nuclear weapons and rockets. That's going in the opposite direction as prophesied.

The Judgement was given.

We live in Judgement Day and yes, it is unfolding as foretold.

God's time is not our time.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Consider though CG, there is no Authority to cut off that interpretation, they are still as valid as any other branch of Christianity.

Regards Tony

Well, we all know that each Christian group has a different take on what the NT says. My personal favorite are the snake handlers. They really, really take the NT literally. Then what do other Christians tell them? That those verses about handing snakes are based on verses that aren't found in the oldest manuscripts. Ironic huh. Christians pointing out that things were added in. Then with those verses, and verses where Jesus says to pluck out your eyes if they offend you, they don't take those literally but figuratively. Again, ironic huh.

And we all know that the Catholic Church made themselves into the authority. Then they abused it and lost it. So, all Christians can do is use the Bible as their authority. And Baha'is poke all sorts of holes into its authority by saying, "It is not wholly authentic." Well, that's no surprise to most of us. That's what we've been saying all along. Religions just make up stuff, like laws and moral codes, and then attribute them to an unknowable, unseen, unprovable God.

And we're supposed to obey those rules because some guy said God told him to give those laws and rules? No, we want proof of this God. Because we have been fooled before and won't be fooled again, no, no. And in a lot of ways, out with the old religion and in moves another one. Why should we trust this one as being any better or any different than the old one? And that's the problem you Baha'is face. We are very skeptical and need some tangible proof before we believe. And you don't have it. And no his writings are proof. We've read some of them and have problems with some of the things he says.