Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[Left Coast]

Baha'u'llah didn't study history. He had very little education.

His father was a rich Persian aristocrat and he's described in the first few lines of Wiki this way:

"Baháʼu'lláh was raised with no formal education but was well read and devoutly religious."

The notion that a well-read Persian rich kid would be unaware that civilizations rise and fall throughout human history is rather untenable.

 

[Left Coast]

Hi,

i think Many people can predict many things. Maybe someone predicts 100 things to happen, but 1 or 2 happens, and 98 does not happen. But what if someone predicts a series of events and all of them come true?

See here:

How To Make a Believable Prophecy | Religious Forums

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

But so what?

Exactly. To remind you, you responded to the prediction of a tea kettle whistling. As you imply, it's not very helpful to read.

A prophecy made by a Prophet is more than a prediction. It is the fulfillment of the divine will and purpose.

Also, so what? I can wait to see these fulfillments when and if they do occur. Why does it matter that somebody predicted them? Where is the value there?

Baháʼu'lláh taught that the future order will be the embodiment God's scheme for mankind.

Good to know, but again, so what?

Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

What difference does it make if one answers yes or no?

The reason I don't give a yes or no answer myself is because as written, what sequence of events since those words were penned would not be a fulfillment of that prophecy? The prophecies can't be right if they can't also be wrong.

Furthermore, these predictions about a different future are common through history, and they have never been helpful. They don't provide information that allows one to predict events in one's life that would be useful foreknowledge.

What use is any prediction that doesn't empower one to make the choices that lead to desired outcomes? What difference does it make if one is even aware of such predictions, like the one predicting a new world order, even if it specifically described what that would look like and when it would occur? Do you think otherwise? Why do you think it matters whether Baha'u'llah's predictions are coming true?

As you say, so what if they are? That's not meant to be a rhetorical question. Assuming that it does, why does that matter to you, and why should this matter to others. If your answer is that it doesn't and shouldn't, aren't you agreeing with 'so what'?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

See here:

How To Make a Believable Prophecy | Religious Forums

Those criterias are useful.
But for someone who claims to be a Prophet, the motivation behind those prophecies could be another important Criteria. If someone is from God, His prophecies serve more as warnings. They tell us of what humanity will go through, so, we can be prepared.

 

[Left Coast]

Those criterias are useful.
But for someone who claims to be a Prophet, the motivation behind those prophecies could be another important Criteria. If someone is from God, His prophecies serve more as warnings. They tell us of what humanity will go through, so, we can be prepared.

But if you want people to heed the warning, it behooves you to be believable.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And the mechanism for achieving unity is...?

Either a summit of world leaders to change the current order to be able to deal justly with dictatorships or WW3 then a world summit to establish a new order to be able to deal with them.

 

[Revoltingest]

Prophecies obey Murphy's Law, ie, anything
that can happen eventually will happen.
This is not useful predictive value, eg,
I predict that there will be an earthquake.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So hold on - you think we should destroy Russia?

Yikes.

No,no, no. The government should be brought down.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But if you want people to heed the warning, it behooves you to be believable.

Could "believable" be relative? Maybe something is believable to some people and unbelievable to others?

 

[Left Coast]

No,no, no. The government should be brought down.

How?

 

[Left Coast]

Could "believable" be relative? Maybe something is believable to some people and unbelievable to others?

That's true. The criteria I set in that thread were intended to be "reasonable" guidelines of believability, i.e. what a reasonable person (not someone who is either gullible or overly critical) ought demand in terms of a prophecy.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That's true. The criteria I set in that thread were intended to be "reasonable" guidelines of believability, i.e. what a reasonable person (not someone who is either gullible or overly critical) ought demand in terms of a prophecy.

Let's say, there is really a true Prophet of God, and lets say, He wants to prophecize about future, but due to a wisdom, He does not want to reveal it explicitly until when that event comes. To do so, He decodes the information (such as the year, period, place) in a language that could not be decoded by ordinary people, until when the time is right, God sends another Prophet to decode the prophecy and then everyone knows. Would this be possible or believable to you?

 

[loverofhumanity]

How?

They are trying financially now. But the entire world needs to jointly pressure Russia to withdraw. It can be done but it never has been done before.

But if the world could unite over Russia and bring the govt to its knees then other dictatorships like Myanmar and in Syria will be very concerned. The very last thing oppressors and war criminals want is a united world. But I have faith we are getting there albeit hobbling and struggling.

 

[ppp]

Either a summit of world leaders to change the current order to be able to deal justly with dictatorships or WW3 then a world summit to establish a new order to be able to deal with them.

That's not exactly a mechanism. The first is just saying people talk and stuff happens. The second is a pipe dream where there's a world war and humans are left with anything resembling local civilizations, let alone world civilizations.

 

[Left Coast]

Let's say, there is really a true Prophet of God, and lets say, He wants to prophecize about future, but due to a wisdom, He does not want to reveal it explicitly until when that event comes. To do so, He decodes the information (such as the year, period, place) in a language that could not be decoded by ordinary people, until when the time is right, God sends another Prophet to decode the prophecy and then everyone knows. Would this be possible or believable to you?

It wouldn't be believable, no. This falls under 2) in my list of criteria. If a prophecy is so vague or inscrutable that no one can tell what it actually predicts, someone else doesn't get to come along later after some event happens and say, "Oh, see! This is what they meant!"

 

[Left Coast]

They are trying financially now. But the entire world needs to jointly pressure Russia to withdraw. It can be done but it never has been done before.

They are not trying to "bring down" the government. We don't want the entire government of Russia to collapse. That would be catastrophic.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Baha'u'llah, of course, but all Prophets have defined them as well.

You and your faith! We are doing what we have done all the time in spite of Allah sending to us prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis. Fighting, going down, coming up, surviving, perishing. And these messengers coming up with new religions, adding to the strife. Either it is Satan's doing or a scheme created by a foolish being.

 

[Sheldon]

That's right, but what people decide that means, if anything, is their own free will choice.

So just subjective opinion then.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Let's say, there is really a true Prophet of God, and lets say, He wants to prophecize about future, but due to a wisdom, He does not want to reveal it explicitly until when that event comes. To do so, He decodes the information (such as the year, period, place) in a language that could not be decoded by ordinary people, until when the time is right, God sends another Prophet to decode the prophecy and then everyone knows. Would this be possible or believable to you?

What use is prophecy when all information (year, period, place) is encrypted. He could as well keep the information with him. After the event comes, what will be left to reveal? And what have other prophets decoded? You make as silly arguments as the schemes of your Allah.

No, no, no. The government should be brought down.

And who is going to do that? Remember, Quran says that if Allah did not want Putin to head Russia, it would not have happened. Again, absolutely foolish arguments.

"He (pbuh) also said: “Hear and obey, even if a black, ugly, small-headed black slave is made your leader”. (Bukhari and Muslim)
He (pbuh) further said: “Hear and obey even if you are beaten (unjustly) and your wealth is wrongly confiscated (by the leader) still obey him.” (Muslim and Abu Dawud)
Because of this, the righteous Muslim predecessors have all agreed that obedience to the rulers is compulsory. They also agreed that it is haram to disobey them, take up arms against them, to undermine their government by publicly demonstrating against their leadership and incite the public against them in whatever method."
Islam and obedience to leaders

Do you believe in the messenger of Allah? Do you believe that Quran is the word of Allah? Then, why are you blaspheming by saying that the Russian government should be brought down?
You take Mohammad as one of your manifestations and disobey what he said!

 

[Sheldon]

That was not known in any shape or form in the 1800's. The world is changing so fast, no person in mid to the late 1800's could have envisaged this current age.

That subjective opinion may or may not be true, but it doesn't make a sweeping vague guess prescient.

The fact that we have Prohecy that deals with the exact issues we now face, is what this OP is about.

So far all I have seen are subjective opinions making those claims, but even were an astronomically unlikely even accurately and unequivocally predicted and then occurred, why would you assume divine agency must be involved?